"genitors/jinete Spanish light cavalry" Topic

I was doing some googling last night on the Spanish army in the Italian wars and ran across an excellent article on Spanish jinete light cavalry located here: link . A lot of good information in this article about jinetes on the battlefield. If you have a few minutes you might enjoy the article. In the meantime, here is a summary.

Jinetes, also called genitors, were excellent light cavalry which often fought in the same manner as arab light cavalry.

Jinetes could be very effective against heavy knights. Jinetes would simply ride up to the knights and hurl their javelins or darts into a mass of stationary knights. The javelins/darts were fully capable of penetrating the armor of knights as well as harming their horses. Knights, on their larger, heavier and slower horses, could not easily catch the jinetes on their smaller, more agile horses. If a few knights broke ranks and chased after them, then jinetes could swarm around the knights and take them down. A mass of knights which has lost its cohesion and is disorganized or exhausted could also be very vulnerable to Jinetes. Feigned retreats were often used as a jinete tactic to lure knights out of their organized mass formation. Of course, jinetes could not halt a mass of well controlled, advancing knights. But the knights could not catch or hurt the jinetes either. To sum up, jinetes could effectively attrit and provoke massed, stationary knights with ease and little to no risk. They could also directly engage and take out isolated, disorganized or exhausted groups of knights.

Massed infantry, lacking protection of shot or light cavalry, was equally vulnerable to jinetes. The same tactics effective against knights would be effective against massed infantry.

There were several counters to Jinetes. First, knights and massed infantry could rely on the protection of their own light cavalry to keep jinetes at a distance. However jinetes were heavily protected and well disciplined cavalry. Jinetes have been depicted in period paintings as wearing mail hauberks with bascinets, cuirasses, plate shoulder, elbow, knee guards and a large round or Moorish-style heart-shaped shield. The jinetes were armed with a light lance and/or javelins/darts and a sword. Jinetes were armed and armored as cavalry but could function as either light cavalry or regular cavalry. So jinetes, with their high level of armor and discipline, were not easily driven off except by determined and strong light cavalry/cavalry. The French relied on the Stradiots to counter the jinetes. However it seems the stradiots lacked the discipline of the jinetes and possibly the level of protection.

Another counter to jinetes was shot troops armed with firearms or crossbows. However shot required either difficult ground or pikes for protection as shot could be ridden down by jinetes in open ground. It is possible that knights could provide some degree of protection for shot if shot remained very close to a mass of knights simply because jinetes are unlikely to chase after a man running into a mass of knights. (I also do wonder how effective shot would be against jinetes once driven into the protection of pikes by a jinete charge.) Regardless, protected shot should keep the jinete's javelins and darts at a safe distance from either knights or massed infantry.

On the battlefield, jinetes strengths would be against massed stationary knights/infantry or against disorganized, exhausted or fleeing knights/infantry. Jinetes could also ride down exposed enemy shot infantry. Finally, Jinetes had the discipline, weapons and armor to screen their own friendly formations as well as challenge or drive off enemy screening light cavalry. The primary counter to jinetes were protected shot and/or equal cavalry/light cavalry.

Can't wait to get some painted up for the battlefield!

I'd be careful about numbers. Most OoB's for Spanish forces in Europe that I've seen show a really small percentage of Jinetes compared to other Cavalry. My reading does confirm the effectiveness of them on a battlefieldnbut the Spanish never had enough to rely on "Parthian" tactics to win a battle.

Por la lejana montanya (cant type a tilde)
Va caballando un Jinette
Vaga solito por el mundo
y va deeeeeeeeeseando la muerte.

It seems a little unlikely that plate armoured Gendarmes on armoured horses would be vulnerable to javelins when they were relatively safe against crossbows and shot at anything but close range.

It seems a little unlikely that plate armoured Gendarmes on armoured horses would be vulnerable to javelins when they were relatively safe against crossbows and shot at anything but close range

I was a little surprised as well. However here is a quote from the original linked article:

This statement is undoubtedly derived from the Chronicles of Froissart in which the Duke of Lancaster is quoted as saying:

By my faith, of all the arms the Castilians and your countrymen make and use, I love the dart best, and love to see it used; they are very expert at it; and I tell you, whoever they hit with it, he must indeed be strongly armed, if he be not pierced through and through.

To which the duke's squire replied:
You say truly, for I saw more bodies transfixed at these assaults than I ever saw before in all my life. We lost one whom we much regretted, Senhor Joao Lourenço da Cunha, who was struck by a dart that pierced through his plates and his coat of mail and a gambeson stuffed with silk, and his whole body, so that he fell to the ground.

I'd be careful about numbers. Most OoB's for Spanish forces in Europe that I've seen show a really small percentage of Jinetes compared to other Cavalry. My reading does confirm the effectiveness of them on a battlefieldnbut the Spanish never had enough to rely on "Parthian" tactics to win a battle.

I have found some percentages in the past but will have to look them up again.

Por la lejana montanya (cant type a tilde)
Va caballando un Jinette
Vaga solito por el mundo
y va deeeeeeeeeseando la muerte.

Unfortunately, I don't know spanish. Anyone have a translation?

Por la lejana montaña
va cabalgando un jinete.
Vaga solo por el mundo
y va deseando la muerte.

Across the far away mountain
a jinete rides on.
Alone he wanders the world
and he has a death wish

Note: In modern Spanish "jinete" means just "horseman", not "ligh horseman riding with short stirrups" as used to mean in the past

Ok, I found the percentages…actually in the same article linked above…

Jinetes constituted 38% of the Spanish horse at Cerignola (550 of 1,450), and 8% of the entire army (550 of 6,950). In the force organized for the second Naples expedition (1500), they were 50% of the cavalry (300 of 600) and 8% of the total. At Seminara I the jinetes were approximately 40% of the Spanish horse (400 of 1,000). In the army that confronted the French in Perpignan in 1503 there were 4,500 jinetes among the 6,500 horse (69%). The total strength of the army was 19,500.

These data, adduced from various sources, all considered reliable, show that in the period under consideration jinetes could constitute from 38-69% of the cavalry in any typical Spanish army. They would be about 8-23% of all field forces. These data underscore their significance in the early Italian Wars Spanish army.

It is not possible to determine definitively what the organization for combat of the jinetes was. Companies generally appear to have numbered 50-100 troopers.

Not rennaisance era, but in the 1350's the Jinetes faced an English free company army led by the Black Prince. The English were virtually all dismounted, but the jinetes were highly inneffective as they were significantly out-ranged by the longbows. They simply couldn't get close enough to use their weapons. The Spanish pretty much ended up retreating, leaving DuGeusclin and his French Knights to cover the retreat. Not a good day for the Jinetes.

David

Hi

In my circles my swarthy light cav units are legendary for doing exactly as described…being where they aren't wanted.

R

Jagger

The quote refers to a battle in 1351 – not during the Italian Wars. A javelin piercing mail or even re-enforced plate is believable, piercing a Gendarme's pistol proof armour is MUCH less credible.

The quote refers to a battle in 1351 – not during the Italian Wars. A javelin piercing mail or even re-enforced plate is believable, piercing a Gendarme's pistol proof armour is MUCH less credible.

Actually I was surprised a javelin would piece re-enforced plate armor even in 1385. So now I wonder.

I assume lances will pierce plate armor in the early 1500's. I assume there is more penetrating power in a lance carried on a charging horse than a javelin hurled from a charging horse but I am not sure how much more. And I also assume both weapons are designed to penetrate armor.

I wonder if any tests have been performed hurling a Castillian javelin from a charging horse into a 1500 era piece of plate armor? I also wonder how often javelins were directed at the horse rather than the rider? Knocking out a horse takes the rider out of the battle and makes it much easier to kill or capture as well.

We probably will be left to wonder like so many other subjects.

Remember, it's not just the actual ability to penetrate armor that's important. Disordering effects on the target's formation, morale effect, goading the target into charging, etc., all play an important role on the battlefield. If I hit you with a javelin, I may not pierce your plate armor, but I might knock you off your horse thereby potentially eliminating you from the battle. I might also cause panic, fatigue, etc., to set in among the soldiers.

The quote refers to a battle in 1351 – not during the Italian Wars. A javelin piercing mail or even re-enforced plate is believable, piercing a Gendarme's pistol proof armour is MUCH less credible.

Does it matter that there were no pistols at this time; therefore there was no pistol proof armor?

Rich (inquiring minds want to know)

Hi Rich,

I think you are right. Being a habitual wanderer of the Royal Armouries (Leeds West Yorks) I can say that the armour pre 1525 was a lot thinner than later. The armourers were trying to balance protection and lightness (the latter imparting personal dexterity) – see 'fluted / ribbed' German armour of the period; which is very thin; German 'fluted' armour was considered the 'bees knees' but went out of fashion quite quickly with the advent of massed hand held black powder weapons.

It reverted to the 'Italian (simple) style' which became much thicker / heavier and in consequence the 'coverage' had to be reduced to 3/4 armour. Thereafter the advent of the musket made all armour redundant to 'shot' (if the armour held proof the impact of the shot would still knock a man from his horse) and was only carried as defence against cut and thrust weapons in melee.

Whether javelins were effective, or not, against gendarme armor, jinetes were still hurling javelins at gendarmes during Gonzalo's campaign in Naples.

From here: link

The tactics employed by the jinetes at Seminara I during Gonzalo's first campaign in Naples were typical. The jinetes attacked a strong body of French gendarmes that was reordering, having passed a stream. In the usual fashion the jinetes charged in, let fly their javelins, and then suddenly wheeled in feigned retreat--intending, of course, to return to the fray if their impetuous enemy followed. The Calabrian militia of Gonzalo's Neapolitan ally, King Ferdinand, tragically misunderstood the tactic and, imagining the Spanish horse defeated, bolted the field en masse. Gonzalo was left to shift for himself, but there was no French pursuit, and the Spanish retreat (and Neapolitan rout) was covered by the jinetes.

I particularly like the part where Gonzalo's allies rout from the field at the sight of a feigned retreat by the ginetes.

Hi

Overwhelmingly, musket shots don't result in a kill. Overwhelingly, pistol shots don't result in a kill. Overwhelmingly, a crossbow bolt or long bow shot or comp bow shot doesn't result in a kill.

And quite often, the incoming round doesn't conveniently go up against the STRENGTH of the armor. The old movie "minor flesh wound" is usually enough to be called a "casualty". survivable, yes, easily healed, yes, but most folks go off and feel sorry for themselves.

"My horse was only blinded" isn't something you will hear much!

Armor reduces the probability of injury, it isn't a guarantee.

If the Genite kill wound or stun 5% of the unit, you are reaching the "effective" range. If the second round does another 5%, then failure becomes a possibility.

Rocky

Rocky

When I read of jinetes using darts I always think of the amazing feats attributed to Catalan almugavhars. Early I know, but still transfixing their enemies with ease – and perhaps using all steel darts.

Here is an example of the breakdown of Spanish troops sometime during 1512 as given by Guicciardini:

a thousand men-at-arms,
eight hundred Jenneteers,
and eight thousand Spanish foot.

Rich