"Archduke Charles "personnel guards" ?" Topic

I'm planning my Austrian Generalissimus base, which will include Charles, two AdC/generals and…?

Anyone knows what would act as a "personnel guard" to Charles? If it was Napoleon, I would put some Grenadier de la Garde or such as escort, but what about Charles? Any ideas?

How about having someone with a big bag of instructions from the Kaiser?

Dear Archiduke,

I regret I cannot advise with your question, and am equally awaiting enlightenment. But wouldn't the Emperor's escort be better provided by the Guard Chasseurs? Or maybe a 'duty troop' of a Chasseur, Horse Grenadier and Empress Dragoon. Sounds quite mouth watering…

Kind Regards,

Sparker

Pick a service squadron from Hussars or Uhlans. I went with Uhlans (Merveldt (sp?)

According to bowden there were staff troops who escorted an army headquaters. These were 2 companies of infantry (476 men) and a staff dragoon squadron (146men/142 horses). These were drawn from the normal infantry or dragoon regiments.
Mentioned is that the HQ of 9th corps had 1 company of infantry (238 men) and a flügel (half squadron of dragoons (75 men/73 horses)

He must have been a great bureaucrat to have had "personnel guards" either that or his Human Resources people were really important and required their own guards.

I think he'd rather have his "personal guard."

:-)

With the AB set you get a staff Dragoon, not sure what scale you are working on.

Tally Ho!

As mentioned above there was both a cavalry regt, the Stabs-dragoner (Staff dragoon) regt and a smaller infantry unit. Both were tasked with protecting the headquarters while on campaign.

I can supply uniform details later when I get home and can consult my sources.

Thanks guys.

anleiher, info on their uniforms would be greatly appreciated (both infantry and cavalry). Thanks!

Archduic

Stabs Dragoner:

Raupenhelm.

Pike grey jacket, dragoon pattern.
Bright red facings
Pike grey waistcoat
white breeches
German cavalry boots
cavalry overalls

Basically I am using Chvauleger

K

Thanks K!

Any info on the infantry, or were they simply using their parent regiments uniforms?

Here are some options for your EH Karl base (the source for all are the Ospreys):

Chaplain – Black coat, black waistcoat, black breeches, black boots and black, unadorned bicorn.

General Adjutants – Dark green coat, red cuffs, red collar, red lining; mixed grey (sic) overalls; Black bicorn with green plumage.

General Staff – Same as General Adjutants only more ornate (gold and lace added) and if the individual was of General Officer rank he would wear a sash.

General Officers – White coat, red cuffs and lining; red breeches, black bicorn with gold trim and green plumage.

Hussar General Officers – Either (a) red dolman, red trousers, light grey pelisse trimmed in black fur or (b) white dolman, white trousers, light grey pelisse trimmed in black fur. Either uniform could be worn with a shako with thick gold border at the top of the shako and a green plume or a black/dark brown colpack with a red bag, gold cords and a white plume.

Still looking for the reference to the smallish infantry unit which guarded the HQ. I will post it when I find it. Until I find it, you could probably justify any of the several versions of uniform worn by the members of the various "Archduke Charles Legion(s)". He was their patron after all. Let me know if you are interested and I will give you several options for them.

The Stabs-dragoner uniform is as Khevenhuller described. The unit was established in 1805.

Very useful info anheiler, and the Chaplain is a good idea
Thanks again.

I do have info on the AC Legion, but you might know something I don't, so how about those options?

ArchiducCharles

Do you have a time frame in mind? The uniforms vary widely over time.

1809. Even though, to be honest my Archduke Charles Legion will probably be in the earlier uniform (because Foundry makes them).

Riding around keeping tabs on brass is the sort of things dragoons do best

The Osprey MAA Austrian Specialist Troops state that the Stab-Dragoners wore light blue with red facings. A U pickem. I'm working up some hussars for aides, probably the 1 Kaiser Franz.

Sorry for the delayed response but here goes:

1809 Archduke Charles Legion

HEADGEAR
1st Battalion (Corsehut) Black with green plume
2nd thru 6th Battalions (Shako) Black with green plume
UNIFORM
Mid to Dark Brown Coat with red collar cuffs
Pike Grey Trousers (sometimes shown with red stripes)
Black Gaiters
Black leather equipment

Let me if you need more information.

Could some one help me out with "pike grey" as a colour? Is it dark, light, medium, blueish?
By coincidence I started my Archduke Charles stand today.
So good timeing thanks Archiduke.
Max

Stabs Dragoons and infantry wore I think blue with red facings sorry I don't have my Rawkins uniform book with me as I type this out.

picture

This is the Jager zu Pferd in Pike Grey

K

Fantastic, thanks.

Thanks for the info anleiher.

The Bussy Jäger were a different unit I thought. It was raised from the various mounted parts of Austrian Freikorp troops (as were the foot light battalions raised from the infantry parts).
The Stabsdragoner were already in existence in the 7YW, disbanded but reraised in 1805.
Of course it is possible that they wore the same uniform as the Bussy but I think they kept their historical colors of blue and red (and Osprey is wrong)
see link
for the 1848 uniform (again in blue and red)
link

for the earlier stabsinfantry see
link and
link and
link

He was only asking for the colour, not suggsting the units were similar (please try to keep up!)

Why do you suggest the Osprey is wrong? Other sources also suggest a change in uniform after the unit was reconstituted.

K

"Adjustirung der Stabs-Dragoner im siebenjährigen und im baierischen Erbfolgekriege war: schwarze unbordirte Hüte, blaue Röcke, rothe Aufschläge, weisse Knöpfe, Hosen und eben solches Lederzeug. — Von 1792 an grasgrüne Röcke, schwarze Aufschläge, gelbe Knöpfe.

In neuerer und neuester Zeit hatten die Stabs-Dragoner weisse Röcke mit krapprothen Parolis und Aufschlägen, blaue Pantalons, weisse Knöpfe und Helme als Kopfbedeckung."

Page 656, vol 2 of the

Gedenkblätter aus der Kriegsgeschichte der K.k. Oesterreichischen Arme by Joseph Andreas Goswin Aribo Georg Maria Thürheim. Published by the Buchhandlung für militär-literatur, 1880:

link

Page 655 gives a canned history of the unit.

For more detail, see p 937ff, Vol 3, part 2, of the:

Geschichte der K. Und K. Wehrmacht: Die Regimenter, Corps, Branchen und Anstalten von 1618 bis Ende des IX.jahrhunderts
by Alphons Wrede. Published by L. W. Seidel, 1901:

link

Khevenhuller, you're right, I'm sorry.

Steven, I can't open the source You mention. Could You give a short description of the units history in the Napoleonic period.
Do you maybe have a picture of the earlier napoleonic uniform and is the "grasgrün" the same as the pike grey?

What is meant by "In neuerer und neuester Zeit" , supposedly after the Nap. period?

Page 655:

"Stabs-Dragoner-Regiment.

1806 reducirt.

1805 Im Feldzuge errichtet Stabs-Dragoner-Regiment, Abtheilung für Deutschland in Wels und jene für Italien in Laibach.

Feldzüge und wichtigere Kriegs-Ereignisse.

Stabs-Dragoner wurden in Oesterreich zum erstenmale

1758 im siebenjährigen Kriege vom General-Quartiermeister FML. Grafen Lacy errichtet, und zwar als Stabs-Dragoner-Regiment, es leistete als Bedeckung der Hauptquartiere, im Ordonnanz-Dienste u. s. w. abtheüungsweise verwendet gute Dienste, so 1759 bei Maxen, 1760 bei Dresden und Kunzendorf, wo sie selbst ins Gefecht kamen und sich auszeichneten. Nach dem Hubertsburger Frieden 1763 reducirt, — wurde dieses Stabs-Dragoner-Regiment bei Ausbruch des baierischen Erbfolgekrieges 1778 wieder errichtet, — nach dem Teschner Frieden 1779 abermals reducirt, mit Ausnahme von 2 Escadrons, die nach Mailand kamen, aus diesen wurde, wie weiter oben gesagt, das vorhergehende spätere leichte Dragoner-Regiment Fürst Liechtenstein Nr. 9 formirt (siehe dieses). Im Feldzuge

1800 diente eine Stabs-Dragoner-Division, die neu formirt worden war, bei der Armee in Deutschland und wurde 1801 abermals reducirt.

1805 ein Regiment mit 2 Abtheilungen für Italien und Deutschland errichtet und 1806 reducirt.

1809 wurde eine Stabs-Dragoner-Division errichtet,

1810 aufgelöst und so wurden in allen Feldzügen seither nach Bedarf Stabs-Dragoner Divisionen errichtet und bei eingetretenen Friedensverhältnissen wieder aufgelöst."

Essentially, the units were formed for a campaign, then disbanded afterwards: 1800-1801, 1805-06, 1809-1810, etc. They were formed into smaller units called either an Abtheilung or a Division.

'grasgrün' = Grass green!

"In neuerer und neuester Zeit" = In the newer and newest period. I would go: Thereafter and presently.

Steven, thanks

I note that the "Auxiliar-Corps unter Commando des G. d. C. Fürst Carl zu Schwarzenberg 1812 in Russland" had attached"

"Stabs-infanterie, 2 Compagnien, Stabs-Dragoner 1 Escadron."

Rawkins does state dark blue with red facings for infantry and dragoons. The infantry wore the old crested raupe until 1814.Brass buttons worn also.