"A Year of Frugal Gaming - Social Conscience" Topic

This week in my Frugal Gaming blog I've been having a think about how the economic changes will be affecting the hobby and how we can do our part to support the hobby.

I feel that this is a important issue and I'd really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

Cheers

Dave
yearoffrugalgaming.blogspot.com

Hi Dave

I am with you on the frugal gaming, but do we really owe the industry a living? I don't think so.

10th, we don't owe the industry anything, but if we want the industry to be around, we owe it to ourselves to support those companies we like.

Absolutely – we don't owe the industry anything. If people want to stay in business then make products that people want, complete ranges and give them good customer service – then you will have customers. I don't mind paying a fair price for my miniatures, recognising the effort thats gone into making em and the fact that sculptors etc need to make a living. However, the attitude from some of late is bordering on contempt for the customer (for example, you've only spent a few hundred pounds on my products so your opinion and your custom doesn't matter). Its people like that who are misguiding in thinking that the customer owes them a living no matter what they do or don't do!

It depends on whether you want there to be a hobby to return to when the recession has passed. Of course, to be brutal, nobody "owes" the industry anything (and since I'm now part of that industry, I include myself). But ours is a tiny industry: there are very few companies with the resources of Games Workshop to weather the storm, and even they are trimming their sails.

Most companies are tiny, often one-man-band outfits like my own, with virtually no capital to fall back on to bail them out. They put their heart and soul into what they do, with precious little return. Certainly, any company that gives lousy customer service or produces rotten products should be avoided even in the good times. But if, when the storm has passed, the landscape looks devastated, with many of your favourite wargames companies as casualties, then it will not do to simply blame "the economy". It's not some abstract thing out there -- it's us!

I'm one of those who (perhaps foolishly) believes that one of the strengths of our hobby is its sense of community, and when the outlook is bleak, we all need to do our bit to help make it through. The industry needs to be aware that individual gamers and their families are feeling the pinch and worried about the future -- and the customers need to realise that the companies are feeling precisely the same thing.

Henry
Battlegames

Do you mean support local game stores, or sending figures overseas for a cheap paint job?

The firms that will fail will be the ones that provide the fringe and odball figures.

All that we can hope for is more of the same Napolionics, WW2 ACW etc.

I have to agree with Henry that we're a community. We dont want to be in a position in a couple of years where most of the small companies have shut and we're only left with medium quality bland figures (Napoleonics, ACW, etc).

Although money spent on the hobby will be reduced, it would be best to stop impulse purchases on things that will never get painted or buying masses of cheap miniatures, when buying a small number of higher quality pieces would be much preferable.

This is my Frugal Gaming approach and I think it will help those companies that genuinely provide good service and high quality products to weather the storm.

A lot of the companies on the fringes are run almost as hobbies by individuals who also have real world jobs, so I think the apocalyptic scenario of not being able to buy the figures we want is a bit unrealistic. In reality don't we all just buy what we want, when we want it? Do gamers really make unwanted purchases just to support the industry? Oh, and what is inherently wrong with sending figures to an overseas painting service? Is it somehow more important to help a western painter make a living? Dodgy.

Best way to keep the hobby going is to do what you have been doing -- once you buy into the notion that your role in the hobby involves some form of social contract with attendant obligations to Others, you are well on the way to killing it for yourself. I game for and with my gaming buddies, and for my own amusement.

I am one of those who is "the hobby." Noone owes me a living in good time or bad.

The good news about this hobby is that it will be very, very hard to kill. So much of it is produced by one-man outfits that they can always just shut down or slow down. They can hibernate, wait for better times, then start back up. Molds don't go bad, spin casting is still cheap.

It may hurt the Foundrys and Games Workshops of the world who have employees, etc. But the one-man show is actually better situated to survive than they are I think!

Mark "Extra Crispy" Severin
Owner, Scale Creep Miniatures
ScaleCreep.com

If you can't afford miniatures then don't buy. If you can and want to then buy.

STT

It is also about how you spend your money. Many of us support the FLGS in town even though the price may not always be better (it usually is at mine) in order to keep that resource.

Want good cons? Buy stuff from the dealers that go so that they would never dream of missing your favourite con. Want gaming in your country to flourish? Buy from your local companies. Like a company? Buy from it.

Personally I not cutting back this year but I am focusing myself better to get more out of the hobby. Now I save up and get the good stuff and don't just pick up things if they are a good deal (although I am not adverse to a good deal).

Dave, it's an interesting article.

Personally though, most of my wargame accessories come from large manufacturers – plastic model and figure companies, Woodland Scenics, various railway model buildings and so on. Even when I buy metal miniatures, they are from larger companies: GHQ, SHQ and Skytrex. I've got some Fantassin figures (thanks Mark) I purchased three years ago, but I don't know if WarModelling counts as a small company.

So I'm not sure I am in the group Dave describes in his entry as "We have lots of small companies (and a few large ones) speaking directly with their customers over the internet and meeting them face to face at shows". And I know there are a large number of other wargamers like me.

Anyway, I too have reached the conclusion that Dave has about dealing with what I have, first. Though I came to this conclusion a while ago.

I look forward to further frugal gaming blog posts.
--
Tim

I don't reckon SHQ and Skytrex have got corporate jets either.

How big are Skytrex and SHQ, anyway? My impression was they are bigger than the smaller casting in my garage at the end of the day after my main job type companies?
--
Tim

Guys, get a grip. I don't wish to denigrate the fundamental idea of "frugal gaming", but there is no "Blitz spirit" in the gaming hobby, or any other hobby for that matter. The hobby is not "under threat" from some hideous menace somewhere. On the one hand, the boards here are full of those lambasting manufacturers for running their businesses unprofessionally. On the other we have those running around claiming that the sky is falling in, and that the current global economic difficulties will herald the death of many small companies. Where's the middle ground?

Go back over the last 40 years, look at the number of economic downturns/ shakeups and booms etc there have been and contrast that with the number of miniatures companies that existed at the time. Go on. Did out your back copies of WI, MW, MWAN and the Courier and compare that with the number of companies in existence today. There have never been so many choices, so manty periods, so many rules nd so many scales.

People are questioning the survivability of small companies. Remove GW from the equation and EVERY miniatures company is a small company. That includes the Perrys, Old Glory and Foundry and pretty much anybody else you choose to mention. I really doubt if there's a miniatures company in existence with more than 7 or 8 dedicated full-time employees. Hobby companies will survive precisely because they are NOT responsible to shareholders and investors, and as Mark has said because they can take the foot off the gas as and when they need to, and concentrate on activities that will earn them more. Will some companies drop ranges that aren't doing well? You bet they will, on exactly the same basis that they'll drop them when times are good globally.

Now, there's a lot happening at the moment, both in gaming and in the world economy at large. There is certainly a palpable sense of unease about individual futures, retirement etc, but there is a fundamental aspect to this hobby that few people seem to get. Wargaming is very, very, very individualistic. It is both "craze" and taste-driven, and people – myself included- only ever see it through the narrow prism of our own specific interests. If you're a manufacturer, you may find that a range that did very well three years ago isn't doing anything like as well as it used to. Now, is that because of the current "credit crisis" or merely because the interest in a given niche ain't there any more? You can turn and twist this any way you want.

I've seen comments here and elsewhere criticising manufacturers for releasing "yet more Napoleonics/ACW/ WW2" or whatever and "that's all we'll be left with". Has it not occurred to those commentators that you might, just might be seeing a reemergence of interest in these periods? With the release of more hard plastic boxes, there are those out there saying to themselves "I'll give this a shot now, because I couldn't afford to do it before"? And for those who don't want to game those periods, or do it in metal, there will be other manufacturers who'll be waiting in the wings ready to provide other periods as alternatives.

2008 was the year hard plastc emerged with a serious bang, and I'd back a bet with serious cash that 2009 will see a greater availability of plastics. Other manufacturers will look hard at their own stocks of figures and see whether or not they want to/can compete in that regard. Referring again to my point about individual taste, there will always be those who don't want to play Napoleonics or whatever, or not want to do it in plastic – well, somebody will scratch that itch for them.

Lately, I'm seeing and hearing a lot of what the Irish call the "beal bocht" – the poor mouth. That basically means people making entirely too much out of things, and pretty much looking for something to complain about. You have more choice than ever before. More scales than ever before and lately, more media in which to have your toys than ever before. People have been complaining that nobody makes/does/even contemplates producing X since gaming began, and will continue to do so. This does not equate with the closure of umpteen small companies, and certainly doesn't herald the death of "niche period gaming" as we know it. People will always express themselves, in good times and bad. Some paint, some form rock bands and some play with toy soldiers. For every company that decides to pak a project, there will be another that'll kick off something new. Now, that mighn't be something that you're interested in personally, but that's life. You don't and will never always get exactly what you want, when you want it.

I think many aspects of the "frugal gaming" concept are very good. We've all got stuff shoved someplace that we really should go and do something with, even if it's only to sell it off to raise some money for a new project or expand on something that we're more fired up about. We should probably all take a look at what we've got and see exactly how much enjoyment/ value etc we're getting out of it.

The companies most likely to go out of business are those small businesses which are run as full-time operations, often for the sort of income we'd consider derisory for talented people putting in very long hours. It won't take a huge drop in their business for them to simply give up. Then they go to work elsewhere, very likely in another sphere completely.

They might revert to 'after work hobby' when the owner gets a regular job, but maybe not. They might sell the business, but maybe not.

I'll be supporting a number of businesses of this sort, because not only do I like the product but I like the owners.

Is there some sort of social contract? Some people say there isn't. I bet they don't feel that way when they show up for a game and the other players can't be bothered to turn up.

I guess I will have a social conscience when my boss does, and he will have one when our customers do…

In which case there wouldn't be a recession any more, and we wouldn't need to have a social conscience would we :)

Actually its only mid-jan and I have already spent my budget for the first quarter and still have so much left to buy, at this rate '09 will see me spending more than at any time in the last 5 years, so I am doing my bit to help the poor sods in this industry, though for purely selfish reasons I hasten to add, none of this namby pamby social conscience lark here!

Now what I want to know what is my industry going to do for me!!!

Anyway I am still planning on financing at least half of it by flogging my unwanted crap to some poor sucker on ebay, i.e. someone like me who was dumb enough to buy the stuff in the first place. So all of you socal conscience wets please run over to ebay and bid up my auctions now, its your duty and in doing so you will be helping your industry, as I promise to give all the money to Foundry,WG,Perrys,Victrix, maybe even a little bit to Henry :)

"I'll be supporting a number of businesses of this sort, because not only do I like the product but I like the owners."

Where's the "social contract" in that, MJS? If you like A. N. Other, but he doesn't make/ have anything you want, why would you buy from him?

"I bet they don't feel that way when they show up for a game and the other players can't be bothered to turn up."

Apples and oranges. You're either talking about "supporting small companies" or not. People who can't be arsed to turn up for a game is a different thing altogether.

Tell you what. I'm a lovely person. I even commissioned some figures in a very niche period. Everybody go buy them this minute because t'is your duty.

Don't like them?

Not interested?

No? Okay, engage your social consciences and gimme some money anyway. Or toys. Or both. Whatever. You know you want to :-)

This hobby is one aspect of my life in which I still remain completely selfish. In my others (work, family, sport, etc.), I assume a leadership role and feel that social obligation. But not here. I leave those tasks to people with adequate passion, time and space to pursue. And I thank you all for doing it.

"I'll be supporting a number of businesses of this sort, because not only do I like the product but I like the owners."

Where's the "social contract" in that, MJS? If you like A. N. Other, but he doesn't make/ have anything you want, why would you buy from him?

There's a difference between "not only" and "don't". There's several traders/companies whose owners I like but whose products I don't have a use for. I don't order from them. MJS is saying the same thing. If you like the owner *and* the product then I'm more likely to order. Hopefully this makes it more likely that the people I like will stay in business selling things I like. Social contract be damned, it's purely selfish!

I'm not sure where I got to be a poster child for a social contract in which wargamers were obliged to support each and every game company. I support those I like, who make things I want. I don't buy things I don't want. I also choose not to support a small handful of companies who I've come to regard as sharks. But that's my affair, and I'm not expecting anyone to abide by my own choices.

Wargamers are by nature quarrelsome, individualistic to a degree, often cranky. The 'herding cats' comparison is often made (although cats are generally cleaner). That's part of what's great about this hobby. But it's also the bane of this hobby. It is what it is.

During the last downturn the hobby gave birth to RPG and D&D!
Was this because fewer figures were needed to play these games?

The spare time production of figures is no go if you loose your full time job.and cannot get another – the "hobby" would be considered to now be your full time job. which cannot pay for your bills.
You need to be unemployed to get any support and keep your home and feed the kids.

The shutters are going up in many of the local towns, large and small firms are laying off workers home are being possessed.
I don't now how many are wargamers but I think hobby spending is the last thing on their minds

Crispy has it right.

Those of us in the business (not hobby) aren't owed anything. Those that provide a good product at good value with good service will be here. Those that don't, won't.

When someone fails at business it's their fault. They make all the decisions and to blame others or expect help is silly.

My experience in the business is that those that fail usually are making decisions as if it's a hobby. But at least they try.

But back to the question, no, customers do not owe us anything.

Use it or lose it.

Four main types of people make up this hobby and their interaction dictates where the hobby is at any one point. I have no idea in terms of percentages the size of each group that make up the whole and would count myself as belonging to group C.

a) those who work hard to get best product / value / service to customers

b) those who do not

c) those customers who will spend on their hobby

d) tight wads who will always want something for nothing

"2008 was the year hard plastc emerged with a serious bang, and I'd back a bet with serious cash that 2009 will see a greater availability of plastics. Other manufacturers will look hard at their own stocks of figures and see whether or not they want to/can compete in that regard."

TMP link

It's a funny old world….

Plastics are a safe bet for popular subjects but need quite an investment the only large firms can dream of – even then business loans for sound projects are hard to get as banks are short of money.

normsmith add to (D) recasters they will crawl out of the woodwork at times like these.
Just look at the coments made by some recent posters.on the subject
TMP link

"Those that provide a good product at good value with good service will be here. Those that don't, won't."

Really? If that's the case we should be making quite the success. We haven't though.

Hard work does not equal success. And I laugh cynically and derisively at anyone who says otherwise. Because there's something wrong with them mentally or they're already a success and forgetting things like fortuitous timing, more investment from outside sources than most small business's can dream of, hitting a fad, or any combination of things that ACTUALLY make a business a success.

(A perfect example of most of the above is Privateer Press. Or just about every business that's lining up for bailout money from the U.S. government right now.)

I constantly see people in this hobby rave about poorly made figures and indifferent service just because it was cheap. So please leave the motivational poster psychology in the dumpster where it belongs. :\

The bare fact is that the vast majority of people who produce things in this hobby don't earn anything like they deserve for the time, money, and effort they put into their business. And this "anyone who fails deserves it" nonsense is a slap in the face of everyone who works hard for the small chance of success this 'industry' offers.

When someone fails at business it's their fault.

Not true, during the last downturn sound businesses had to be closed because banks called in the loans they had given.

Sound business plans did not matter.

All of us are bailing out banks who have frittered away customers money and large firms that are only being supported because of the number of job losses would embarrass governments.

Small firms can go to the wall without bail outs even though their total cumulative job losses may amount to more than the large firms.

The people who have wrecked the economy are the best educated minds – but they will get a golden handshake!

On the notion of "social contract", I do believe the commitment to host a game, whether it is for a con or not, is a serious matter. I have hosted plenty of rollicking good games at the eastern cons. This is an altogether different matter than some roughly undefined form of economic commitment to "frugality"

I've always been careful with my gaming money having seen people waste hundreds of pounds on stuff that never gets used. My income has fallen due to changes in my work and the general economy but as much as I'm able I will continue to buy the quality products I enjoy. I'm being selective, I want more Wings of War but I have enough to play with and painting Perry's gives me more pleasure so the metal wins the available funds atm.

Its about balance – I want to enjoy my hobby as it gives me a break from the stress of running a business, the dire news and the fact I might yet have to wind up my business and try to get a job. But at the same time it would be very stupid of me to spend in the way I was three years ago when my business was doing very well.

To be honest the planning and writing lists of possible purchases is great fun and planing to get the most out of the choices I make is all part of that fun.

If one area of my consumption will suffer its that I won't be attending shows. If it comes to figures or shows I will buy lead not a ticket.

I need to cut right back this year, but I'll make sure I continue buying some new stuff, funding this by selling surplus old toys. I really fancy some of the new Saleh Successors, for example…

Simon

Gallowglass, I'm responding to your "Guys, get a grip." post which I thought was excellent.

I wonder though, if the same reasoning applies to the big plastic model companies that provide the resources to wargamers like me. From some time in the 80s up until 1994 (50th anniversary of D-Day), the pickings of in production companies became very, very slim indeed. So for the large companies (I've no idea how Airfix, Hasegawa, Fujimi, etc, are compared to GW), the fortunes have waxed and waned.

Fortunately, since 1994, it's been all about waxing!
--
Tim

Hard work does not equal success.

.
I agree. There are some folks in many businesses that work very, very hard and don't make it.

There's a saying "work smarter, not harder". It's not to motivate but it does work. Add to the good product is marketing and you don't have to have a large budget to do it.

One simple way is be descriptive when you can be. Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy tells folks who you are.

Yes, there is some luck in business, but if you have a good plan, market well, know your customer base and how to reach them your chance of catching a lucky break increases.

Networking helps a lot as well. Too many folks refuse to ask questions. There's some really helpful people in this business that can help if they are asked. I know because I've reached out and asked and have been asked as well.

I understand that. But getting success in buisness is more about luck than anything else. Once you've made it a sound business plan, networking, and so on and so forth will keep you afloat.

But only once you've made it. Until then you have to keep trying (and wasting money) until someone finally takes notice. Of course, by then you might not have any resources left to capitalize on it and it's still a net loss.

I just can't wait until I find out what people are willing to actually buy and not just compliment.

I'm curious, jenkiis – what did you have for sale that didn't go down well? You're not a "sponsor" or what have you of TMP and so have no obvious links to a commercial enterprise. I saw some threads about some dogs you'd had sculpted, and a lot of… well, smiley-adorned snarkey sarcastic posts, I have to say… in short, looking back through old posts hasn't told me a lot. I'm not quite sure what that makes you, or what to make of you. Sorry if this is an overly personal question!

I run a hobby business and I have a regular job to pay the bills.
I expect business from people because they like my product and the service I give.

I would suspect that of all the companies out there I am one of the smallest and I think that without the internet and sites where businesses can advertise for free then I would not have survived into my 3rd year.

Another thing that keeps us companies going is the support from other companies.
The hobby is diverse enough that companies can support each other without losing a slice of the action.

One thing that can kill a company dead is ignorance/laziness.
I have been accused of selling pirated miniatures in the past and a thread appeared on here to that affect.
People even contacted the miniature manufacturer to ask if they knew of me.
They did, they were supplying me direct!
No-one thought to ask me first…..

As hobbies go this is a pretty good one.
Lets give everyone an equal chance and not make assumptions about anyone, if we do that I think this hobby will do just fine.

Michael.
angelbarracks.co.uk