"Wargames Factory 1/144 Biplane Requests " Topic

Hello folks, just a quick note as those nice people at Wargames Factory have added the 1/144 biplanes that people have suggested to their "Liberty And Union League" requests page. There are 5 requests currently up there:

SE5a
Bristol Fighter
Pfalz D.III
Albatros D.V
A somewhat vaguer sign up for a number of additional types. (This one will get split into separate requests if there's a general interest; only one plane will fit on each sprue.)

I've just signed up for a dozen each of the 4 named aircraft, and hopefully they'll catch a few other people's imaginations too. The target is 100 people signed-up for a total of 1000 sprues for a sprue to be produced, which obviously is a heck of a lot, so if you have friends interested in the period, make sure you mention it to them…. ;-)

Cheers,
Dom.

link

PS – For anyone put off by the painting side, I'll guarantee that I'll run up decal sheets and painting guides to complement any of these that do make it to production.

PPS – Sprue price is down as "TBD" at the moment – signing up at this point doesn't oblige you if the price turns out too high for your wallet, so please don't be put off by that one. My wild-assed guess is that they'll be around the $5.00 USD USD mark, but the price will be confirmed by Wargames Factory before they ask people to make firm ($1 deposit) commitments and start tooling.

PPPS – Random suggestion; if you like the idea but are hesitant to sign up for an entire range before it's started, can I suggest the SE5a – if everyone picks on the same subject it increases the speed at which we start getting CGI renders, test sculpts etc, which'll hopefully get still more people aboard….

Just signed up for six of each.

Hope it all works.

Fingers crossed – heck we're a fiftieth of the way there already…. ;-)

Blimey,

It worked after all, no doubt thanks to your sensible suggestions Dom :O)

Huzzah!

Jim

I've just signed up too – spread the word!!

I just added a few sprues and sent the email to several friends that are interested in the period. Hope we can see this project through to its' completion!

6 each for me, including the boxes 'cos they contain Breguet XIVs.

Anyone for Nieuport 28s? I suppose a Zeppelin is out of the question

Dom
I just notified the two club Yahoo groups that I belong to.
I have a few metal ones myself, but prefer plastics for planes.

I would be more interested in Fokker DVIIs and Camels, myself.
At that scale, I can wink that an Albatros DV is a DIII.

5 x SE5a.

5 x Bristol.

5 x TBD (Spad or Nieuport would work best for me.)

Man, this must be a predestined thing when Mr. "But is it in our Budget" (me) pre-orders anything. Especially at that lvel of committment. Ask Dom, he can certify I'm a "small order and grumble about postage being x% of the cost" guy…

Maybe I'll get a bonus this year… Nyah, I got one last year…

Gracias,

Glenn

I've ordered 6 each of the se5 & bristol fighter

I'll get it put on the clubs website as well

Just signed up for 6 of each. Thanks for the heads up.

Signed up and added Early war stuff – Eindeckers and Morane Saulniers

Thanks for the responses folks; it's definitely an ambitious target for the subject, but I think there's possibly enough interest to get these up and running if we spread the word as it were. To address a few comments:

Boggler – thanks for having the idea; I'm glad you think I've done my bit to steer it on as practical a course as possible (alternatively read that as "been a pushy little git 'cos I like the idea and want to maximise the chance of it happening….") Just wish I'd thought of it first…. ;-)

Guntruck – the "boxes" won't materialise in that form; rather they've been bunged there as a "catch-all" to save WF from typing out a dozen or more listings for different planes. If the idea gets enough sign-ups, they'll add more individual listings according to demand. On Nieuport 28s, my best suggestion is not to flood them with too many requests just yet; if there are 20 options listed, they're probably less likely to reach enough sign-ups to ever see the light of day – wargamers being what we are, we'd probably end up with a couple of hundred requested for each, and not enough for anything to actually get made…. Better to start with a few obvious candidates and see what we can do with them – once there are *some* models out, it'll probably be easier to get people aboard for more additions later. (Hence my SE5a suggestion – if we can get even one model made, people can see them, hopefully go "ooh, that's nice" and increase the number interested in the next one….) Zeppelins would be 4 feet long, so no chance; there's a lovely resin one out there if you've got 200 Euros spare, though….

OFM – Similar comments to above; hopefully if we can get *something* out that'll help the idea as a whole reach the necessary "critical mass" to keep getting additions like Camels and D.VIIs. The SE5a, Brisfit and Pfalz all have extra "pulling power" as people with Wings Of War collections are still missing these, so make more sense as the initial requests, but hopefully we can get a few of *them* up and running, and in doing so expand the player base enough for Camels and D.VIIs to become practical suggestions too….

Glenn – plenty of grumblers around here, me included, and it always makes sense to stick within your budget…. Personally I love the Wings Of War models, but the price is hurting these days, while the scale of their operation necessarily means slow releases. Fingers crossed, this might help with a more economical entry-level option as it were to get people into the scale on a budget, and maybe expand into the WoW, Skytrex and Reviresco lines if they get hooked as it were….

Dom :-)

Hmmmm, I like the idea, but was curious…why don't we ask for planes that are not yet produced? All of those I've seen so far are already made in lead by one or two different companies. With all the possibilities out there, why not shoot for something that's not currently available? My vote would be for Moraine Saulnier N, Sopwith Baby (float version), Short 400 bomber, on and on. Just an observation…

green dragon.
The idea is to propose planes that will SELL.
There is absolutely NO way that a brand new plastics manufacturer will even think about a plastic Sopwith float plane.
It costs thousands of dollars to tool an injection mold for plastic figures. IT has to be cut out of solid steel.

Some people do not like lead planes all that much.

There is also a size limitation on the sprues.

As an example, I have proposed WW2 Battle of Britain planes. Sure, you can get metal, Japanese prepaints, etc. But, they are more likely to get supporters, precisely because they are such popular choices.

I would have to be a real nut to propose a Boulton-Paul Defiant.

"I would have to be a real nut to propose a Boulton-Paul Defiant."

Well, you *could* propose a Westland Whirlwind as long as you promise to include rules for random mechanical failure with those in' Peregrine engines…

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

P.S. Then again, there *is* the Blackburn Roc for the Fleet Air Arm fans as well, John…

Well I don't game this scale so I don't know what might be available but in 1/72

Here are some that I can never find in sufficient quantity and are frequently gamed:

Salmson 2A2
Breguet 14B
Sopwith Dolphin
Nieuport 28
Sopwith Triplane
Liberty DH-4
Rumpler C.4
Albataros D.3 and D.7

Italian Front:

Hanriot D.1
Phoenix
Aviatik-Berg (several models)
Albatros Oeffag s.153 is probably the best for initial manufacture. s.53 is also good

Well there's a few.

mjc

Dom, given the sprues are 4"x6", the Zeppelin suggestion was a bit tongue in cheek (A Drachen would be nice, though). The resin Zep cost me 300 Euros a year or so back, and is still beng used as loft insulation as I haven't the courage to use it in a game with the ham-fisted beggars that make up our wargames club.

I see the SE5a is up to 10% of quota now – not bad for a couple of days pimping.

I'm very pleased these made it. I'll add my votes shortly. I very much hope we can get this going. Hopefully we can add other planes in the future like the Sopwith Triplane, Pup and the popular Fokkers but for now just to see the Se5a and Brisfit there is great.

Dom
I'm very pleased you'll support this with decal releases.

In answer to couple of points above. I have and like the wings of war models but I'd much rather make up simple kits that are cheaper and ultimately more flexible with regards to paint schemes. For example I'd like to do some DVas of Jasta 11 but I really can't be bothered to completely repaint a WoW model that is already assembled making the task harder than it need be.

Re the metal kits. I've always been of the opinion that they look a bit lumpy and although I have built some in the past I'm not keen on them.

Thanks to the OFM who covered Green Dragon's point nicely – the ideal is that we get more obscure stuff at a later point, but the sign-up target for this is definitely a big one, so you start with models that lots of people are likely to want, and more than a couple of each for preference…. Once there's some kind of range in existence, that'll hopefully help to expand the player base and get more people interested, so more obscure stuff can gradually follow. (Not that I could ever see 1000 sprues requested for Sopwith Baby floatplanes….)

With regards to other models being available, yep, but a lot of people are put off of the period by the prospect of assembling resin or metal kits, while plastic is a lot less intimidating to the newcomer. Additionally many people who'd baulk at the prospect of assembling a dozen or more metal biplanes would think nothing of it in plastic, so it (hopefully….) works particularly well for types you need a fair few of. As for the Wings Of War models, they're absolutely lovely, and I have a whole bunch (converted into whole units with my decal sheets….), but you don't want to pay WoW prices for models for other squadrons. You're paying for the paintjob, which is good value if you actually want the paintjob, but bloody expensive if the first thing you do to the model is undercoat it and start again 'cos they don't make one in the colours you want….

As for even more types, I'm sticking to my guns here – I can think of loads of extras that would be great, but won't be making any requests until and unless we get a model or two up to the necessary total – the more requests people post at this stage, the more the sign-ups will get spread between the different models, and the less chance there is of *anything* ever getting enough requested to see it made. If we get these first few done, then we can think "what's next?" and start hassling them again, but I'm pretty much convinced that doing so now will spread people's interest too thin to get the necessary numbers for any of the suggestions.

Dom.

PS – I'm officially jealous on the Zeppelin; simply don't have the spare funds for that even remotely on the horizon, but it's on my "maybe one day" list…. ;-)

The Drachen is a good idea. 1/72 gamers would buy that too.

mjc

Still too big for the WF sprue size, and Nexus have a Caquot in the pipeline.

Dom,

If you're after a cheaper option and don't mind a bit of card modelling, then Schreiber do a 1.200 scale model of zeppelin LZ45/ L13:

schreiber-bogen.com

You can get one via Marcle Models in the UK for about £20:

marcle.co.uk/catap32.html

Not quite to scale but a lot cheaper than 300 Euros!

Jim

Thanks Boggler – I might just bite on that one some time – I've not built card models in years, but it sure wins on practicality….

That's another six SE5a sets ordered.

Dom

As a thought I don't suppose you'd consider posting a heads up on this one on your site. I wondered if you'd consider it as it should ultimately benefit your decal sales.

I certainly agree that we should aim to get at least a couple of these into production before we consider any more types.

If anybody posts on any other forums where there are air gamers, eg WoW yahoo group and the TFL site, neither of which I post on please mention this project to spread the word.

The Schreiber Zeppelin is a good option,even if it is a to put together. Even comes with an observation car to dangle beneath it, and a likkle British aeroplane to shoot at it.

Roseplanes used to do a nice 1/72 vacform Drachen and Caquot, but I'm not sure if they are still trading. Anyone out there know if they are?

link

Still trying to decide re: popping it up on my site, but I'm inclined not to as it'll rapidly get shunted down the page anyway. I might pop a mention in when replying to people who order 1/144 stuff though.

As for plugging elsewhere, I've posted to Toofatlardies and Wessex Games' yahoo groups, and there's a thread on the WoW one as well. If anyone's a member of other relevant lists, yes please mention it.

Dom.

I've put a posting and link on the WD3 forum.

"5 x TBD (Spad or Nieuport would work best for me.)"

Nieuport 17 or a SPAD VII or SPAD XIII. Considering how widely these French aircraft were used, I find it more than a little odd that they are none of the types put forward. The Pfalz D III is a personal favorite, and it was a workhorse of sorts, but it did not serve in multiple air forces like the SPAD or Nieuport, and is thus arguably much less useful from a business standpoint.

Unless one of youse mugs steps up on this, I'm ging to suggest a 1/144 SPAD XIII… if only to force Dom to make all sorts of French and Italian roundels and squadron badges… Bwahahaahaha!!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Main consideration was that a lot of the current interest in 144 is from WoW gamers, so the Spad would be a poor choice as it's already available there, unlike the Pfalz, Biff and SE5a. (Doubly so as it's undoubtedly the worst seller of the existing WoW line – note how many stores clearing out the WoW line basically have Spads left and nowt else….) The Albatros got listed in spite of being available in the WoW line because it was basically the German workhorse on the western front, and together with the two Fokkers (which are also available) are pretty much many gamers perception of what the German air force had.

Dom.

PS – For my views on adding even more requests right now, read the repeated posts above where I say I think it's a bad plan and will just lead to votes getting spread ever thinner, and nothing ever getting made as a result.

PPS – Given that, I *won't* make Spad markings if it's requested in the next week or two…. :-p

Err… Dom… Isn't "the SPAD is a poor seller" a little country specific ? Over here in France, the best seller is the Fokker Dr.1, followed by the SPAD, then comes the Camel and all the shops seem to have heaps of Albatros on their hands. For Series 2, I'd say the Fokker D.VII wins hands down and the rest are relatively poor sellers, especially the Snipe.

OK, you could be right there – my experience isn't entirely Anglocentric, but certainly biased that way, so you may have a point. I'd certainly agree on the Snipe – lovely plane, but a bloody odd choice to say the least – even if we said "1918 RFC Scouts only" it'd still come third behind the SE5a and even the Dolphin – they were both capable enough not to be too heavily outclassed by the D.VII, and made far bigger overall contributions than the Snipe….

Dom.

PS – Still sticking by my guns, though; I'd probably go for the VII over the XIII, but I'm really not keen on swamping them with new requests until the idea's gathered some momentum….

Just added to the pre-order. I person can't have enough planes.

Ditto Dom's comments again. Lets get something into production first before adding more so this doesn't fizzle out.

I totally agree with Dom about concentrating on a limited initial run in order not to lose focus.

The SE5a and Bristol Fighter would have been my choices too. Not so sure about the Pfaltz. While I will buy it, I'd have thought a late-war German two-seater would have been a better choice.

Stick with the plan.

BUT when that works I am SO going to push for a Spad or Nieuport!

Gracias,

Glenn

Risaldar Singh – in terms of my own personal wants I agree with you entirely there, actually. I've happily signed up for a dozen Pfalz, but if this works out, I would *really* like a reasonably versatile German 2-seater. (DFW C.V seems the best candidate to me, given front line service from 1916 to the armistice, and more produced than any other WWI German aircraft. But no 's heard of it, so it wasn't "sexy" enough for the first batch of requests….)

It's more than a little irksome that between Skytrex, Reviresco and Wings of War there are precisely 5 German C class models available, with 3 of them being bleeding Roland C.IIs, and the fourth an Albatros C.III – all safely retired from combat use by mid 1917. The many thousands of German Cs in use after that are covered in 1/144 by a single Skytrex Rumpler….

But yes, still sticking with the plan; I won't be emailing that request in until we get something made. One step at a time and all that…. :-)

"It's more than a little irksome that between Skytrex, Reviresco and Wings of War there are precisely 5 German C class models available, with 3 of them being bleeding Roland C.IIs, and the fourth an Albatros C.III – all safely retired from combat use by mid 1917. The many thousands of German Cs in use after that are covered in 1/144 by a single Skytrex Rumpler…."

LOL!! Sounds like a job for Reviresco, Virtual Scratchuilder, and my lil' ole' book full of scale plans for WW1 aircraft…..

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Added my request for 6 of each type – looks like the SE5A is up to 19% of the needed requests. I'd probably actually buy closer to 10 if the quality is good – primarily just to support the cause (I know they wouldn't all get painted at the rate I'm going lately – which is nothing making any progress).

Look on the bright side; RFC colour schemes are much quicker to paint than the Germans doubtless on your workbench at the moment. So you might be getting no Albatroses done at the moment, but you could probably fail to paint three times as many SE5a models in the same lack of time…. ;-)

Hah – you're a funny man Dom.

I'm on board more for the I want to help the cause, and I'd probably buy at least 6 of each (heck at $5 USD a piece, can't go to wrong). I'd love to see more 1/144 scale stuff being made so I've got to jump in the boat with you – it's really such a great scale for this type stuff.

And with your promise to make decal sheets for whatever they produce, I may just have to put myself down for 100 sprues just to get the decals.

I may not be getting much painting done, but my new closet organizers in my master bedroom look great – and now my girlfriend has less to complain about which translates to more potential painting time for me. I just keep thinking how much gaming stuff I could have worked on for the 24 hours I spent building closet organizers?

Quick update / shameless bump, depending on your perspective…. All five are doing pretty well, with the SE5a the "fastest mover" on Wargames Factory's weekly update, and the Bristol Fighter and Pfalz D.III also figuring in the top 5 fast movers.

Of the 5 biplane requests, 4 have cruised past the hundred mark, with the Albatros just a few adrift. The SE5a has definitely taken the lead though – 234 requested at the time of writing, so nearly a quarter of the way there, and more importantly, nearly half way to the all-important 500 mark. At that stage WF start looking at the sculpting side and producing initial renderings, which'll hopefully get more people still on board. A long way to go still, but it might just work…. ;-)

Dom.

I checked it again today, looks like we've crossed the 25% point with the SE5a's – I think that's a big milestone for us, although I think getting the next 25% will be a little harder. Hopefully everyone's telling their fellow WWI gamers (or just friends, family members, dogs – anyone capable of helping the cause) about this.

Agreed – I think the next 25% is probably the trickiest bit – you get a decent start with the initial burst of enthusiasm, while from the half-way mark I hope it'll be spurred along by the sculpts starting to appear, but the bit in the middle's the trick. Next goal might be about 35-40% for the SE5a – hopefully enough to get it onto WF's top 10 list next week, which might convince a few more people it's going places…. (That said, the Bristol's picked up a fair bit in the last day or two as well.)

Dom.

PS – My dog will be voting just as soon as its credit card arrives in the post…. :-p

PPS – Tony, if you're reading this, be very suspicious of any votes placed by Santos L Helper….

I've got it on our website I hope these work as I'm afraid the WOW planes although very nice, and certainly to start with worth the price just to avoid the hassle of assembling and painting other makes.(I have 12)as I'd plans for a big campaign game with several dozen planes

I'm afraid the new prices have certainly caused me to stop and consider wether they are worth the money at £9.00 GBP for a fighter and £11.00 GBP + for a 2 seater.

kutusov

Yup looking good on the SE5a.

I agree our next big hurdle is up to the 50 per cent marker. I might feel the need to order a few more to help just a little. I know the news is up on the 1/144 Blog site which is great. I let others know but are there any modelling sites that might be interested or those who game WW1 land in N gauge who need support aircraft that we could let know?

Ditto comments we've mentioned that WoW are lovely but with the price hike if you're looking for a flight or kette at around £60.00 GBP for such a unit they've now moved beyond my reach or at least for the time being.

Does anybody post on the Aerodrome forum? Could you post it the news if you do?

"…the Aerodrome forum…post it…?"

done --did it on the "gaming" forum.

thought about putting it in the "model" section too, but wasn't sure if that would be worthwhile…not really a modelling scale…?