"We just need two more" Topic

We only need two more people to sign up for some gendarmes w/o barding. We have met Eureka's requirement for number of figures. But not the number of people ordering figures. So we need two more people to step forward and order some gendarmes w/o barding.

We have very little idea of how these cavalrymen would have looked. From my talk with Prof. James Woods (The king's army: Warfare, soldiers, and society during the Was of Religion in France, 1562-1576) I have come up with the following description:

As a heavy lancer he would have worn a closed helm, the same type of helm as the gendarmes on barded horses. He would have worn front and back armor and probably thigh armor but no leg armor or armor on the arms. I went to various 16th century drawings to fill the picture. I went to Maximilian's Triumph to get an idea of the kind of sleeves they probably wore. Then to some drawings of around 1570 to get an idea of the types of boots they probably wore. I also went to these drawings to get examples of the types of rear harnesses that were used. I plan on sending these to Nic at Eureka once we get enough people signed up for these figures. Here is the where I have those drawings.

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These will make an outstanding addition to the already outstanding figures for Eureka's gendarmes on barded horses. We just need two of you to signup for some of these figures. Even if you just use them for officers. Here is the location to sign up:

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It is the second listed figure "Italian Wars gendarmes on un-barded horses" Put in the number of figures you want. You will need to provide your credit card number but you won't be charged until the figures are done and are about to be shipped to you. The whole process of producing the figures will probably take from 3-6 months.

Please help us get these figures produced.

Rich

Rich,
Are the figures intended to represent actual Gendarmes on unbarded horses? Or rather the rear rankers who filled out the unit? (French "Archers", German "Einspänniger" and so on?
The name of the figure suggest the first but the images you have collected suggests the second.
Either way there are several good German images of both kinds you migth be interested in.

Dürer is famous for his study of a 1495 Man-at-arms/Gendarme in "Gothic" harness
picture

But his early 1500's study of a "Einspänniger" is just as interesting. picture

German professional soldiers Paul Dolnstein made a drawign of his own gear when he was fighting in Bavaria in 1503 as an Einspänniger.

For the French we only have descriptions of the Archers from the "Early" period when they still fought dismounted. Italian eyewitnesses in 1495 describe them in back & breast as well as sallet. The same basic gear is seen during the conquest of Genoa in 1507

I do belive sallets or casquetelles/early burgonets would be more common than fully enclosed armets or closed helmets. Wearing the later without at least a 3/4-harness is to invite injury or death. With the visor down ones vision and ability to defend one self is hampered in such a way that an enemy will be able to exploit the lack of armour on the arms. An helmet with a more open design allows the wear to defend himslef actively with far greater ease.

Forgot the link to the Dolnstein pic picture

Rich,
Are the figures intended to represent actual Gendarmes on unbarded horses? Or rather the rear rankers who filled out the unit? (French "Archers", German "Einspänniger" and so on?
 The name of the figure suggest the first but the images you have collected suggests the second. 
Either way there are several good German images of both kinds you might be interested in.

Thanks Daniel. The reason I called them gendarmes even though they were actually archers is that they were part of the gendarme company. Also gendarme is a more familiar name than archer. Archer is a rather problematic name.

I asked Dr. Woods for a description of an archer or a drawing. According to him, we don't realy know what they wore except they didn't wear leg armor or armor for the arms. I take that to mean the archer would not be expected to wear armor covering those body parts. Undoubtedly there were some that probably did. But, as a general rule they did not. At least in so far as the French army at this time was concerned.

As far as wargame figures goes, unlike Napoleonics, the best we can do is go for ‘likelihood'. There was so much individual variation that it is impossible to be precise. That is what I'm going on. It is likely they had riding boots rather than leg armor. It is likely that they had puffed sleeves rather than arm armor. Which brings us to the question of helmet type.

Here is my thinking on the helmet. One, I could not find a picture of a heavy lancer that didn't wear a closed helmet. This is a type of helmet in which the visor can be pulled down to enclose the whole face. This is in opposition to the burgonet which enclosed the top of the head and the cheek sides but not the face. Just prior to combat the heavy lancer can swing the visor down. Once through the initial crash of opposing lines, he can then sweep the visor back up again to improve his field over vision. Also, as part of the gendarme company, the archer would want his armor to as closely match the gendarmes as possible for when he gets the chance to be a gendarme.

In the end, all we really have is guess work based on the little physical evidence that has survived. In that frame, I especially like Durer's "Einsanniger" and will send it to Nic. I had seen the painting before but had forgotten it. Thanks for presenting it. Unfortunately Durer didn't capture has helmet. Nevertheless, he comes pretty close to my description.

I am aware of Paul Dolnstein. Unfortunately I have no access to his work. Is his work more available for purchase in Sweden? I would like to know where I can purchase of book on his drawings. With regards to his lancer, it looks like he has protection for his jaw area but I can't tell if he also wears a visor that can be pulled down. By the way, I like the armor for the horse's head. That would look good on these figures. In any event, thanks Daniel for the contribution. If anyone has additional information please make me aware of it.

Rich

One further question that could really be a selling point for me is will the figures be cast open handed and / or supplied with different weapon variants ? e.g;

arquebus, petronel, boar spear, light lance, crossbow

One further question that could really be a selling point for me is will the figures be cast open handed and / or supplied with different weapon variants ? e.g;

If the Gendarmes are any gauge, Eureka would probably provide several weapons options. The Gendarme on barded horse comes with a lance case on a separate arm, an open-handed separate arm, unsheathed sword, several hand weapons, such as a mace, axe, etc., and a sheathed sword that can be attached to the body if the sword option is used. They also provided four different body/armor/clothing types, and six different plumes. They paid attention to detail.

I have many of the gendarmes (30 I think). Not one will be identical to another.

John

The annoying thing is that we know well what the archers were wearing upto the first decade or so of the Italian wars, then at least the published sources seem to beblank until 1552 when we get a very detailed written description of the equipment of all types of French cavalry. The new regulations issued for the Gendarmerie in 1534 may contain more details on the equipment but I have not seen them in print.

The puffed sleeves could conceal a fair amount of armour. Mail is easily worn underneath them as is simple "spaulder" style plate defences for the shoulder and upper arm. It only pauldrons and the elbows that gets snagged in the cloth.

Both burgonets and sallets could and would be worn with bevors which proteced the lower parts of the face (indeed some deep bevors provide protection right up to eyes).
As most bevors were articulate they could be raised and lowered as needed.
link
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A visored salled worn with a properly fitted bevor will provide protection for the entire face if the bevor is raised and the visor lowered. There is also the "bellows-visor" sallet which has a visor which covers the entire face. link
Interestingly Dolnstein has drawn two mounted crossbow men with similar sallets
picture

However the bevor can also be left of when needed which is usefull for the various duties other than pitched battle that these lighter cavalrymen often found themselves tasked with.

Several paintings of the battle of Pavia (such as the one in RA Leeds) show sallets in use even among the fully armoured Gendarmes at such a late date. The famous Pavia tapestries show both sallets worn by Gendarmes as well as early burgonets (worn without bevors by cavalry men who are toherwise in full harness but mounted on unarmored horses)

But as you say, the lack of information for this particular period makes it necessary to make educated guesses as far as the equipment is concerned.

Dolnstein has tried to draw himself with a bevor and a visored sallet (with the visor in the raised position)

The easiest way to get the images from Dolnsteins diary is to purchase Osprey's "Warrior 49 Landsknecht Soldier 1486-1560) It has almost all of the images but some of the more interesting ones are unfortuneatly reproduced only as small images.
To get the full diary with text and images one must either access the original or try to get hold of the bits and pieces published in various German and Swedish secondary sources. I have scans of most of the images here:
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The only ones missing are the two sieges from Dolnstein's Swedish campaign as well as the image of a landsknecht fighting a Swedish yeoman. That one can be viewed here
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I've tried to have a look at the Eureka site all weekend and whilst I can find the gendarmes that are presently available there are no photographs at all.

All I have been able to find are articles about them on various websites such as this.

Am I alone in this and simply not noticing any link to a photograph or is there a genuine gremlin in there?

I've tried to have a look at the Eureka site all weekend and whilst I can find the gendarmes that are presently available there are no photographs at all.

Here are some photos that I put up a year ago (raw metal):

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From a WAB forum--comparison photos:

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Painted samples from Eureka site:

picture

Nice one John, much appreciated, I take it their site does have some issues then?

I've still got a load of foundry gendarmes to paint but these could be a reason to start a French army!

I talked with Nic at Eureka and he told me the Gendarmes on barded horses have not yet been put in the catalog. He brought some of these figures to several conventions including Historicon. At that time he released the following picture:

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Eureka USA listed them as "out of stock" but according to Nic this was done in error.They are not yet released in the catalog. He does plan to release these gendarmes sometime this coming year. He just doesn't know when.

The figures come with a hole in their head (which is pretty apropos as a description of my kind of wargaming). It is there because the figure comes with various plumes which can be added to create a variety of looks. Counting the plumes and the different horses and gendarme costumes, I calculated that one could create 64 different gendarmes without any of them looking the same. In addition to different plumes, the figure comes with a detached arm so you can place his weapons at any angle you want. It also comes open handed and with various weapons. You can place in their open hand a lance, an axe, a sword, or a mace. Thus the variety of different looks is astounding.

I'm hoping the gendarme w/o barding will come similarly designed (except for the plume. As to the gendarmes being associated with the French, the various designs came from Maximilian's Triumph [1535]. These are primarily examples of armor from members of the Empire. These figures certainly make up my heavy lancers on barded horses for my French army but can also be used for barded heavy lancers for any army of the period.

The problem I found with the Foundry figure, and the reason we went to Eureka for these figures, is that Foundry only offers one barded figure. If you place a number of these figures next to each other, they look like someone gave the horses the command of "Eyes Right".

My suggestion Stuart is to signup for some of these gendarmes w/o barding now. When they are produced they will be produced for those who have signed up for them. It may take a year or so before they become available to the general public. The gendarmes on barded horse were sent to those who committed to them in late spring or early summer of 08. And, it may be another 6 months or more before they become available to purchase by the general public. Besides all we need now is one more order and these figures are a done deal.

Rich

It's done Rich, as it's you :)

Thanks for taking the time to clarify a few points, your enthusiasm is certainly catching.

Cheers guys and Merry Christmas, catch up with you next year.

Stuart

Ya I'm a Renaissance bigot Thanks Stuart. By the way, have I talked to you about 28mm Swiss, Italian pikes, Italian arquebusiers, Italian crossbowmen, stradiots etc., etc.

Merry Christmas one and all.

Rich

I'd order some of each. In fact, I think I've put in for a bunch of those already listed in the 100 club.

Do we have the two additional orders yet? I'm waiting for the archers to complete my Gendarme units in a proper fashion!

We do! I'm putting some suggestion for Nic together. When finished, I'll put them up on Flickr for all to see. I'll post that here and on RenWars and RWS yahoo group.

Rich