"Game run time: RF vs FOW" Topic

Dear all,
as per my previous posts on choosing a set of WW2 rules for noobs, I would like to know the approx gaming time to finish a game of the above WW2 rules. I'll be running straight armor, with AT guns and limited air for 1-144 (lets say up to 15-20 soviet and 10-12 german tanks- or between 1000-1500pnts FOW), about a battalion foot (40 or so a side and quite a few tanks in 20mm-1/72nd scale). Asssuming similar sized games in terms of numbers of minis/points for both rules, can experienced players give me rough time frame, please? This will be the crunch factor in decding rules I guess.
many thanks in advance.
Tony Banks,
Sth Korea

I can only speak for FoW. We routinely play 1,500-1,750 point games in tourneys in 2-3 hours, including setup and packing up. There is a wee bit of time pressure there sometimes. A lot depends on the forces. My large Soviet infantry games (100+ bases) played a lot slower than my Brit armored (13 tanks). I would expect 1,000 point games to run closer to 2 hours, once you're familiar with the rules.

Hint: Get the comprehensive rule book index available at the FoW website. It'll save a lot of flipping around looking for vaguely remembered rules.

- Bob

It is not uncommon for me to be able to get two full games of FoW in in one club meeting. That is starting at about 7:30, setting up the terrain, playing one game, then resetting and playing a different scenario on the same table and clearing up by 11:30.

I can't comment about RF.

Pure Tank battles with Flames of War at 1500ppts should not really last more than an hour unless you have the "cageyist" players in the world.

One point I'd make is that FoW's "you go, I go" turn system ensures all the noobs will have something to do. RF's initiative system is very good (as is RF) but the playing experience of FoW may serve your purposes better.

McWong73 – RF! doesn't have an initiative system, it has a structured turn sequence in to which reserve fire is worked.

Turn Sequence (from rule book)

Player A

1.Morale
2.Observation
3.Smoke
4.Heroic Action
5.Movement
6.Reserved Fire* (Player B)
7.Close Assault
8.Firing
9.Movement

Repeat for Player B.

*Reserved Fire is used to interrupt the opposing players turn during/after the players first movement stage.

Perhaps this is what you mean?

I'm not sure where you get the idea of initiative in RF! from.

Tim..

In my experience, RF moves fairly quickly. Our games usually lasted 2-3 hours. We never played on a points system, relying instead on scenarios derived from specific historical situations. We had a great scenario of Black Sea Marines landing behinf German lines in 1943, with variable German reinforcements and activation, Soviet Paras, and Marines. Despite it's size, we finished in 3 hours.

I have been running first RF and now RF2 for years at conventions. Usually the game is set up prior to the start of the 4 hour block for the game. I can easily explain the basic rules (many of my games have newbies to the system), play a complete scenario (larger, historical scenarios), debrief the game and have it all put away and the table ready for the next GM easily within the 4 hour block.

HOWEVER I do run my scenarios as a battle problem with all active players on one side and the GMs running the "OPFOR". Things move along rather quickly. However with both sides active a smaller scenario can indeed be handled in the same time period.

I find RF much easier to explain and run, especially for newbies, then FOW. Each has a different flavor and emphasis and of course depends on how many of the various additional rules for FOW you will use and how experienced the players are with either system.

My 1500 pt infantry FoW games take about 4 hours in a relaxed home setting. We can play it in 3 hours at a club night.

I've played both and RF definely quicker with equal sized forces. Die roll system in FOW slows stuff down a bit. On the other hand RF contemplates more turns (often 15) while 6 is about the max for FOW. You should be able to crack off about 2 turns of RF for every turn of FOW but bear in mind that RF games last more turns.

As for keepting busy, RF a bit better as turns go quicker in FOW straight YouGo/IGo you have to sit around while your opponent moves all troops, fires all troops than does assults (which you do get to defensive fire at). Finally its now your turn – I often noticed my 11 year son's interest beginning to wander as we plow through the other guys long turn (keep in mind that an evenings game lasts only about 6 turns so they are long).

TomT