"The bad economy and wargaming" Topic

While I am older, I am not a grognard by most standards (and didn't start miniatures until after 2000), so I am curious what people think the current/looming bad economy will do to the hobby. If you believe the news, we are looking at a few years of conditions at least as bad as the worst of the 1970's. I have to imagine a niche hobby like ours will suffer greviously--or will it?

Games get me through times with no money better than money gets me through times with no games

I'm finding myself painting more and more of my unpainted stuff from years ago… so I don't mind that.

I do not see myself buying outside north america till middle of next year as I find postage and currency conversion to be extremely costly. I do buy from the U.S often tho ( I live in canada )so apart from getting old projects finished its not realy effecting me.

"at least as bad as the worst of the 1970's"

…which is when I started gaming; it was a growing hobby then.

Only the people in the business really know the big picture, but I don't think it will change what I do much.

LVLUAN, I find my own US purchases down with the current exchange rates. But the loonie is pretty steady against the pound.

"Games get me through times with no money better than money gets me through times with no games"

Seconded.

Actually business was better the last time the economy was off, true it wasn't this off.

I paint for hire and several of my customers have dialed back their orders. Usually, I was sending out a monthly order of anywhere from 50-100 figures per customer. Now, some of my customers are asking for smaller orders.

It's not a disaster but definitely a sign that folks are tightening their belts some.

I have a friend who runs a game store (not strictly minis). He says that during economic downturns his business increases. He thinks that when people have limited entertainment money they buy games, as the hours-of-enjoyment/price ratio is higher than spending a night drinking at the clubs or driving somewhere.

At least that's how it works for him, I know other hobby business owners who are getting hurt.

Just fyi, I am not really curious whether people will game less or more (I would suspect the same or more), but whether the economics of the industry will be affected.

For example, I would think we are in for a big test of GW's sales model of highly expensive collector-style figures many bought by younger buyers. I just heard Suzie Ormond (no comments) berate someone who wanted to run up christmas gifts for kids on credit cards.

Oddly, Toys and hobbies are extremely resilient to an economic downturn. Since we enjoy a modicum of both toy and hobby, it will not affect our hobby other than folks making more informed purchases at the beginning of the down cycle and curtailing their spending for a couple of months.

Having worked in the industry for many a year before turning to a more lucrative enterprise I can say that's what the trend has always been.

Some of the less liquid retailers will go out of business; others will try to stay afloat by jumping on the next fad, all of which happens now. But the good retailers with enough foresight to have a bit put away should weather this with little difficulty after 3 to 6-months.

I'm focused on assembling, painting and gaming with the tremendous backlog of stuff in my basement. There's enough there to carry me through to 2011 easily. Especially if I keep gaming with it.

And I suspect I'll still have enough disposable income to occasionally augment by collections.

If there's an impact, I'll likely attend fewer conventions in 2009 and if I go, attend for fewer days.

Depends upon what you mean by suffer.

Retail sales will probably drop off for some, but people will continue to paint and game with their minis, since that is very economical entertainment.

New additions to personal collections will probably slow, as people try to keep more money in the bank, assuming there are still some of those around in the future, that are solvent.

Some stores will go belly up.

My local Hobby Town has gone out of business, I assume due to a downturn in sales. However, they didn't carry much in the way of gaming items, other than plastic models.

Still, they were a good source for paint, and balsa wood for scratchbuilding projects.

All my hobby interests have been on hold for the last 4-6 weeks anyway, but I'm cutting back my purchases and will chip away at the unpainted pile starting in the New Year.

Perhaps I'll get some figs for Christmas gifts from the family, but I've decided to wait 'til March before starting any new projects.

I would think the floundering economy will cause people to spend less and be more selective. The retailers who have excess of "unpopular" ranges will feel it. I suspect everyone's going to have to cut back and re-prioritize.

I think the price hikes earlier this year were worse for this hobby than the current uncertainties.

I think high-end stuff might suffer, but standard wargames stuff will sell the same or better. We have an inexpensive hobby compared to all-terrain-vehicles, hiking, golf, etc.

Perhaps people will have fewer figures painted, but then I think of that as high-end for our hobby.

Games get me through times with no money better than money gets me through times with no games

You are, without a doubt, the most consistent person I know.

Lost more than 20K in our retirement fund, but I'm still thinking minis!

CC

For me, I am painting and gaming with what I have. I see some nice auctions these days on E-bay. In past years, I would have considered some of these auctions. This year, not so much.

The only purchases I am making are being funded by items I sell online or will sell at the flea market at Cold Wars. Even then, it will be for basing supplies or unpainted lead to finish off an army or two.

I have a friend who runs a game store (not strictly minis). He says that during economic downturns his business increases. He thinks that when people have limited entertainment money they buy games, as the hours-of-enjoyment/price ratio is higher than spending a night drinking at the clubs or driving somewhere.

The FLGS owner here said almsot the same thing to me last night. Seems his businees is holding up, maybe even doing better. The store seems to have more people in it lately. I find this quite interesting.

I, myself have been spending less and pulling out old project to finish or sell off. Seems to be no shortage of buyers.

Lost more than 20K in our retirement fund

…and that was just October for me…

I think that it will pretty much be the same – there are those who live to purchase new game related items and that is where their spare cash goes. There are those for whom it is really only a passing fancy and they will curb their spending. So long as you retain your job – the deflationary economy isn't going to cut your income drastically, while your purchasing power may increase. So, like it aways has been – some companies will continue to struggle along, some will fail, and others will thrive.

I read somewhere that entertainment industry was doing splendidly during the real big depression back in the 30's.

Griefbringer

Someone brings up the price hikes--we saw several price rises at some manufacturers due to increased metals cost. Now, all of those metals have crashed through the floor in prices below 100-year averages--and I am hearing from people who know alot in this area that they don't expect high prices to return for quite a while.

Given that it may take some time for such price falls to work their way through system, it still seems that figures may be relatively much higher than they were previously. If people want to charge more for better sculpting, or to be able to make more profit, that is fine, but the price hikes of last 18 months were all loudly proclaimed to be due solely to input costs, all of which are falling.

Well, considering all the bad news around us, I find myself turning more to the hobby to distance myself from all the economic apocalypse. I am engrossing myself in travel/food channel, reviewing my algebra and trig, and looking to the hobby to escape. Purchasing at the moment is pretty much out of the question. Maybe a small gift to myself but that is it. Gone are the days my house would increase in value at about $10,000 a month and I would pour about $1,000 USD a month into the hobby thinking, well, I can refinance next year and pay it all off, which I did for about 3 years. This is a tough time but we should definetely avoid another Hoover depression for sure. Great timke to by real eastate if you have the money. Prices are were they were in 2001 in many sweet places.

Well a great local hobbyshop in the area has closed and another one looks like it's struggling. However the FLGS we frequent seems to be doing well. In fact we stopped by this afternoon and business was quite brisk. She was telling me that she had just sold all of her $100 USD Axis & Allies Anniversary sets. She dosn't seem to be that badly affected by the downturn. However she was concerned for myself and my collegues (who just missed another headcount reduction at our office) as we frequent her store a lot. Her stock is quite diverse for games (minis, boardgames, CMGs, CCGs) as well as coins and model rockets.

I've been cutting back a bit on my buying and working on finishing 1/2 started projects. Most of my buying is now focused on what's needed to finish existing projects or collections.

Like most of you folks, I have plenty to do. I have a backlog of stuff to paint or re-base. What worries me is having to sell stuff in order to buy food once the pink slip arrives.

I'm certainly spending as much or more than usual. Which may not be a terribly GOOD thing, now that I think about it… 8)=

What bad economy?

Rabbit

Work off the backlog, watch one or two companies you do business with go down when the principles have to focus on making ends meet and just wait for the turn around.

This very evening, I heard that a local hobby shop here in Austin, Texas might soon be closing . It has been in business for decades, and I'm sorry to see it go. Despite the fact that it doesn't sell gaming miniatures any longer, it's still a cool place to visit. King's Hobby Shop primarily deals in plastic model kits and model railroading.

There are two other FLGS here in Austin, Great Hall Games and Dragon's Lair. I hope they're both doing okay.

Corpus Christi's old hobby shop of note, Leisure Time Hobbies, has been gone for quite a few years. The staff told my father that they weren't able to compete with companies selling on the Internet.

I'm buying less. Not that I bought much before, but now I'd rather face a charging bear than try to tell my Mrs. I spent money on minis.

Of course I'm laid off for a bit, and it's snowing so I may as well hide in the basement and paint.

So yeah, spend less and work on the back log of projects.

The currentl economic times mean that I may have to start painting my lead mountain. It should be enough to get me through a fairly looooong recession.

I haven't spent much in the way of the hobby in the past year (or so) anyway, so I don't really have much spending to cut back on…

"The current economic times mean that I may have to start painting my lead mountain. It should be enough to get me through a fairly looooong recession."

Me too. I'm currently buying whilst I still have a job and a disposable income. My current contract finishes at end of January (finger crossed after that). However, I am being choosier in my purchases, less whims, and I'm afraid that the sudden collapse of the pound against the dollar means I have to think again about potential US and Eu purchases.

Mark

For me it is the exchange rate that will slow down my purchases.
In the summer when the Canadian dollar was up with the US dollar I did quite a few purchases and commissioned some painting, but now with the Cnadian dollar around 76 to 78 cents US I will have to cut back.
The bad part is that most of painting I commisioned isn't finished and I will suffer from the current exchange rate.

So far I'm actually benefiting from better exchange rates. My concern is that for a hobby tied to absolute excess disposal income and already having a struggling bricks and mortar retail arm, we could see accelerating losses on the FLGS front with secondary effects on the distributors and manufacturers who won't get equal lift from online sales.

Actually the only thing that keeps me from ordering more from the States is the postage to Poland [and the fact that the dollar is hovering at 3 zloty to the dollar]. If the U.S. economy keeps on the way it's going now and the dollar drops as low as it was this summer, I'll reclaim my credit card from my wife and order, order, order!

If the dollar stays at its current level, I'll still order some but not as much as I'd planned.

I think that personally, I will cut back the buying and concentrate on getting some of the lead mountain painted…

I work in our towns primary hobby shop (not gaming related) and we are doing brisk business.

We just held our annual Open House and did numbers that would put it in the top three over 34 years.

We have excellent customers, and they are going to have fun and play with their toys come hell or high water.

We are very grateful to them and hope like heck we can stay around another 30+ years to keep 'em happy!

-Mike

I know what you mean about the exchange rate. In NZ our dollar has gone from about .70cUS to just over .50c US. Brilliant for our exporters but not so good for wargamers.

Shipping is still pretty high for us- even with gas coming back down. I think that has been a big factor in the buying decision for most wargamers- "how much is it going to cost to get that game/terrain/box of lead to me?"

I really believe you will see more gaming and less spending.

Most of us have a large collection to pull from (in our closets, garage and so on). Spending more time at home and working on the back logg we already have.

This will affect the industry as one of you put it "greviously" and you will see some start to fall out, but the ones that make it will be in a great posistion when it settles.

Lets see, after the downturn, I have spent $500 USD on custom terrain, a $100 USD on bases, $400 USD on other terrain, $100 USD on books, and $150 USD on figs, thats from the last 2.5 months

so I'm doing my part in keeping the shops from going belly up.

I just use more money on wargaming and less on food.

September 2008 was the highest month of sales for our company since we opened over 2 1/2 years ago.

October 2008 was the worst month for sales in 2 years.

Was afraid this would be a permanent downturn. Then November 2008 finished with sales double October and matching Nover 2007 sales.

December sales are starting to come in strong with just the 1st day in. So I have strong hopes that the bad economy just slammed us for one month which would be nice.

I really believe you will see more gaming and less spending.

Most of us have a large collection to pull from (in our closets, garage and so on). Spending more time at home and working on the back log we already have.

I couldn't agree more. It's what I'm intending to do with my blog!

Dave
yearoffrugalgaming.blogspot.com

I've already drastically cut back purchases, but more important cut back on show (convention) and tournament entries. I have to hope that the shows and tournies I like survive until I'm ready to fund going to them again.

On the other hand, going through the backlog is quite entertaining.

I know I should cut back on my purchases, but my figure spending went up at least 80% I usually only spend about 30 bucks a months on anything related to the hobby and now I'm here spending 300-400 dollars a month! I don't know whats wrong! Now when I get money, I spend maybe 30% on bills, 20% on the Girlfriend and blow the rest of figures!

ahhhh!

I'm in this phase where I don't really give a dam what happens. The world can fall into the sun, my bank accounts can go in the negatives (again) but I want to stock up and enjoy what I have and getting in the mail without the previous 5 years of self restraint. I think it's high time I treat myself.

Otto
noizhive.blogspot.com

The opinion that there will be more gaming and less spending is a solid view.

Weak companies and stores may falter. Strong companies/ stores will survive but expand maybe not as much as they would like.

Inovations by companies may be swimming in owners midns but it will be hard for them to get financeing for new and experimental concepts.

For My part some companies are making it harder for Me to part with My money, in My last three orders two of them I was/am involved in trying to find My miniatures.
You would think a company would try harder in these times to fill orders. More and more I'm buying older figures off ebay and putting off anything new.

It is bad post more than anything. The UK postal system appears to have collapsed (I am at a 50/50 success rate with them now) and so taking advantage of the weak pound is just throwing money away.

I'll still spend my usual ways though – same cons and just spending more in person than online.