"About those Wargames Factory Romans proportions..." Topic

As Macedonians averaged 5 ft 8 inches in antiquity, I now understand Alexander's statement, "May all those who come here after us know, when they see this alter, that titans were once here."

I'm not an ancients gamer (my historical interest begins about the 5-6thC.), but have been amazed by the positive comments about WF figures. Amazed in that, contrary to many, they look really bad to me, but couldn't exactly put my finger on why. So to aid my own understanding…

Here is a comparison pic of WF with a group of figures from other traditionally "chunky" sculpted figure ranges and a 40mm figure. Note that the pics of each mfg. were proportionally scaled so that they were approximately the same size from the base of foot to the eye level. The pic is scaled so that the body proportions can be compared against each other…This pic DOES NOT REPRESENT ACTUAL HEIGHT so Renegade may or may not actually match in height with WF or Foundry or etc. picture

The middle line across the pic is the waist level of the WF figure compared to the others. It's pretty obvious that the Wargames Factory figure is grossly distorted in the shoulders, chest and abdomen. To me, the low waist along with the corpulent chest/abdomen gives the impression of very short legs.

Here's another pic from the WF site, though modified with the figure on the left lifted slightly to line up the ground level and comparison line added. This one, I assume, is of the normal WF soldier pose compared with a Foundry? (left) and a Crusader (right). picture The WF waist appears to line up better, but the legs still appear short. I believe the problem is with the angle that the WF thighs exit from the beneath the tunic. The angle is such that the it makes the "crotch" appear to be much lower than it should and therefore the legs appear very short. In the other two figures, the thighs exit the tunic on a near vertical angle which creates the impression that the legs meet the torso at a much higher point on the body…and make the legs "look" longer. I don't know if the WF proportions "problem" is a result of the plastic molding process or not, nor do I care…but there's no question the're poorly proportioned (far more-so than the typical "chunky" styled sculpt).

It seems there are many who let the cheap price of a figure/range cloud their judgement on what is true sculpted quality.

Snowcat"of 5'6" (being kind) plastic Romans"

That was probably the height of the average Roman in Caesars Time

Yes, and I said being kind. If I'd said these look more like 5'0 chimpanzees would that have been better? And because they ALL look the same (squat and misshapen), you'll have a legion of STUNTIES that look like they hopped out of one of Caesar's worst bio-vats.

So . . .

They're really not very good.

Teutonic Texan's photos and comments are very helpful in demonstrating the nature of problem with the proportions of these minis.
As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words…

It is a particular pity because the potential issue was apparent at the design stage, and could have been addressed before moving on to production.

Simon

Very helpful picture; that said I still prefer the looks of them to OG (the only alternative remotely near the price) and suspect that the proportions won't look so bad on the tabletop, so will live with it. I preordered a box to make my own mind up anyway, so will see for definite when they arrive, but in all honesty I think I'll be buying more, although I would like to see the proportions improve in future ranges.

Dom.

I really think ordering a box is a good idae to see for yourself. Think about the tons of used lead we all have. if you like them then the benifits will be amazing.

Cheap price pushes a lot of buttons for me :-)

I'll judge them when I've got a load together as units which is how my figs get used. As I find that a lot of the detail of figures usually disappears in the mass effect on the table top I can live with lesser detail than more expensive figs – and get more toys due to the lower price :-)

Hi Nik,

I get most of my figures painted by my far-more-talented-than-me mates, which costs a couple of quid a man.

Compared to this the cost of the figure, whether it's 30 odd pence for plastic, or 60 odd pence for a Foundry figure from eBay, isn't that significant. What I really want to buy is the best looking, nicest-sculpted mini available, that will look great when it's painted, and will hold its value if I ever (gulp!) have to sell it.

Only the finest minis ever claw their way to the top of my lead mountain and get painted… I fear this particular range of plastics would be crushed by the weight of the lead above them, during their long sojourn in the lower foothils. ;-)

Simon

That ol' record just keeps on playin' . . . !

:)

Hi Simon,

If only I had the money to get the more talented to paint for me I might share your view.

As it is my "spare" cash gets eaten by my book mountain and I have to paint my figures myself to the best of my meagre talent, for which "close enough for government work" figures are fine :-)

Hi Nic, I will be cutting back on commissioning painting next year, and painting more myself- but only minis I really like… I'm a slow and fussy painter though, and have still not quite finished my army for the Sambre battleday… ;-)

Simon

Some one asked on either this tread or one of the many others if any of us had our Wargames Factory figures, I am happy to say that I have 2 boxes of the Romans and Tony being the stand up guy that he is threw in a box of the Zulu War British.

Though I just now opened up my UPS package I have to say that I am very pleased with both the size and detail of both boxes. I would gladly buy more figures sight unseen from Wargames Factory. No I am not a sock puppet, Just a very satisfied customer.

Yes it was a long wait. But well worth it in my opinion.

Thank you Tony. I wish you much success on projects going on in the future. And I hope that you very reap a whirlwind of rewards for all your hard work and for all the crap you have had to endure.
Dennis Hilton

Can we vomit now?

you couldn't before?

Pat

For what it's worth I got my 4 boxes last night, the detail is a tad more shallow then metals or the Warlord Romans. Having said that they are perfect for what I want and I'm sure they'll paint nicely. If Wargames Factory continues to add to the line, I'll continue to buy them. Warlord Romans aren't late Republic they are Imperial-I want late Republic for Caeser vs Pompey.

I am more then happy with the figures.

It was nice that Tony added a box of Colonial Brits; I'll be giving them to a friend as I have no interest.

I wish Warlord and WF good luck on both of thier respective different projects.

I have been assembling my WF Romans the last couple days.
As far as scale, there is nothing that will prevent me from combining these with my Foundry and Companion Republican Romans. The figures have smaller heads than most cartoonish 28mm metal figures, but that is because the 28mm metals are enormously large, the WF figures have better proportions.

The WF torsos are a bit thick, but a look at re-enactors wearing lorica armor will show the torso is a bit thick this belted chainmail armor.

Currently the assembly process goes slowly as there are a lot of bits to clean and prep, so that is certainly a drawback from metal figures.

On the other hand the fact that two boxes of WF Romans can outfit at least three WAB style (24 figure) cohorts, with their included multiple command sprues means that buidlign an army with these will be the most economical choice possible. Even Old Glory with a discount would need two bags of legionaries and a command bag to complete what can be built out of two boxes of WF Romans.

On the less than positive side, the figures do suffer from soem soft detail, particularly on the feet, which is troublesome as I reckon it will be harder to paint the detail onto the caligulae, when I get to that stage.
Because of the soft details, I'm afraid I may not be able to use my normal black or white Krylon spray prime coat- as I feel the details may get knokced back further so I am struggling with a decision there.

Plus there needs to be some patient modeling skills applied to assembly, the heads have ball joint necks, which the torsos do not accept securely, so each ball joint needs to be trimmed to seat into the chest. This means some dicey cuts and pre-fitting. Nothing complicated for an accomplished modeler, just extra work. The faces on one section of the sprue are very mushy.

On the accuracy side, the figures seem to be close to our impression of what a Caesarian Legionary (or Marius' mules) might appear like…. I like the fact that the plumes are not outscaled like the Foundry and Companion figure excesses. The multi-pose ability is a real boon for the diorama builder. The swords are the right heft as opposed to some metal models that go whacky with sword sizes.
I'd say that the poses are equal to teh Foundry and Companion figures I won, and far superior to many of the Old Glory squatting dudes poses.

I intend to convert the extra bits to artillery crewmen for my Imperial scorpios.
The centurion and optio are nice figures. The cornican is a bit thick, but all models seem to be this way in scale.

However there are some oversights. There is no round parma shield for the standard bearer- (no real problem there, I'll just swipe one from my stash of shields, or from the Warlord Imperial set). Also the big shields do not have reinforcing metal ridges on them, and are not well engineered for attaching to the arms. There is no framework on the inside of the shield. The rub down transfers by Little Big Men seem nice, I'm not yet sold on rub ons and will reserve judgement until I get to that stage.

Of course now that I'm ready to base and then prime these I'm happier now that the assembly time is done and I can move to the more fun parts.

Eventually I'll post pictures.

Review so far- you get what you pay for, plastics mean much more assembly effort, and somewhat softer detail, some better proportions, and unlimited customization, and are relatively inexpensive.

We will see how the end result compare to my Companion Praetorians!
JJ

"How about the length and shape of the legs? Do the figures suffer from the alleged Hobbit syndrome?"

------> I would say no, they do not look like hobbits at all, that is certainly a negative comment created out of spite. The photos that have been posted online have not helped much. The only issues with the legs are the soft details on the feet and the rather soft undercuts between the legs.

I don't think either of these details will be "game-breakers" at all..

Hopefully I will have photos to post at ancientbattles.com soon, and I expect the finished items will overshadow my initial nit-picks.
JJ