"Austria guard units?(3)" Topic

i am thinking of painting these 3 small units for a change.they are (First lifeguard of halberdiers),(gentlemen at arms),(royal hungarian Noble garde)and leibgarde-infrantrie-kompagnie.
i would like to know how big were these units.

thank you
robert

they were only small companies as far as I know, court troops, not battlefield formations.

Very, very small, composed of the sons of Grandees. It would be a bit like painting up a 21st century British army and wanting to do the Yeomen of the Guard…

M

I would do them up in groups of 24. Hey, if the average WW2 gamer has 12 times more Tigers than he needs, who sys you can;t have a bloated Austrian Guard?

lol, amen

Hey, I have twice the maximum number of maalukes ever in uniform, cuz thats how many came in the box.

The last Napoleonic game that I played, my opponent had 8 Austrian grenadier battalions and all of his cavalry were elite cuirassiers. That's the last time I'm ever going to play a wargame with this person.

Der Alte Fritz, our little group has point values assigned per figure. There is maximum points per side. Regular line troops cost much less than grens, for instance, so if grens are selected, fewer line troops are available.

Anyone wanting to do as your opponent will find they have about ½ the units as their opponent. Regardless of the quality, when hit on the flank and front, even grens and elites will find it hard going.

Condotta
an excellent way to handle that situation. Historical to have all grenadiers? Well, not really but it is a game and as such the points system based on effective in the rules can allow such an 'silly' boy his fun. Until beaten by militia…tons of militia (if played well, of course!)

To get kinda snotty about it, Der Alte Fritz, is self-defeating in the long run. But each their own.

Der Alte Fritz,#

Sounds like an accurate portrayal of the Grenadier & Cuirassier Divisions of the Reserve Corps Army of Bohemia to me.

my system is based deeply on points values and every battle we play is set up this way. Those that buy elite troops usually get overwhelmed by much larger enemy forces.

Elite or not, a cannonball is not discerning….

K

THE ROYAL HUNGARIAN ARE HUSSARS(HAVE A PICTURE).I THINK THE OTHer TWO ARE ALSO BUT NOT SURE.the leib-infrantry not sure what the uniform is?might put them in grenadier uniform? the scale i pley is 1/20 each unit with 24 men might be ok?
thank you for the help;
robert

Dear Der Alte Fritz

Having elite Austrian units is not the point, getting them to do something useful on the battlefield is the tricky bit, or should be under the rules :-)

In answer to the OP. These are not battlefiled formations, don't bother unless you are modelling Vienna ca 1805 or 1809, Grenadiers are as good as it gets (and IR#1, IR#4 etc)

cheers

It isn't about winning or losing, I just prefer not to be the Washington Generals (the designated loser) to the Harlem Globtrotters (the guaranteed winner). I don't mind an unbalanced scenario if it has some thought put into. For example, a rear guard has "x" number of turns to delay the enemy so that his army can march off to safety. The rear guard is not going to win the game, but if it can delay the inevitable, then it can be a good game. Or if you are playing ACW and Pickett's Charge, you already know what to expect and then it's simply a matter of seeing whether or not you can do a little bet better than your historical counterpart. It's all about the scenario.

The fellow in question then spent the whole day gloating and thumping his chest and telling me how great he was. Oh, and he also had 20 more gun models than our side had, but what the heck, dreck happens sometimes so you have to deal with it. The point is that we were all invited to his house to play in a rigged scenario so that he could get his jollies. I won't fall into that trap again.

Der Alte Frtiz,

I like those playing those people. Mostly because I like beating those people. Even if you lose 2:1 games, the times you win, sooooo nice.

People need to learn balance.

Another solution, short of a detailed scenario, is to increase the scope of the game so as to make his elite corps less overwhelming.

Cheers,

The Bandit

For the OP:

In theory these garde units were of regimental size (unless noted) at least on paper and responsible for the well being of the Emperor of Austria (or Francis varying Titles) well as other courtly function.

The Erste Arcieren Leibgarde (First Life Guard of Halberdiers) wore a black coat with red sleeves rich ornamented with Gold. During the Napoleonic Period they principally wore a Bicorn with Gold hat lace.

The Trabanten Leibgarde (Gentlmen at Arms) – wore a red coat with black lapels with red pants and waist coat. They wore a Raupenhelm during the Napoleonic Period. The uniform is again richly ornamented in gold.

The Leibgarde Infantry were of company strength during the Napoleonic Period. They wore a Grey Coat with Black Facings. The pants were blue with a white stripe. They wore a black bicorn with gold hat lace.

The Leibgarde Reiter Eskedron (Squadron of Cavalry) were dressed like the Infantry except with Riding Boots.

The Konigliche Ungarisch adleige Leibgarde (Royal Hungarian Nobles' Bodyguard) wore the Traditional Hungarian Hussar Uniform in red with Silver Lace and a panther skin dolmen and pelisse.

The polish Lifeguard (1780 – 1795) wore the traditional Polish Uniform with White fur for lace.

The Bohemian Nobles Guard (official title unknown to me) was raised in 1812 and disbanded in late 1814. They wore a white single breasted jacket faced red with Gold lace. This unit also wore a bicorn laced in gold and a black feather plume.

As for me …
I started painting up a stand to be the Emperors Body Guard and slowly I ended up with the entirety of the Guard at Paper Strength. Now when fantasy battles occur I can pull out my "guard" and pretend too.

I should note that I am working on the entirety of the Austrian Army for 1809 (for Napoleon's Battles) at paper strength. All the regular units are done, the border regiments are done, the Guard, and now I am onto the irregular units (Austrian Cossacks got to love them).

I am admitted Austrophile, but I would personally find it difficult to field these units at an operational level. Maybe a single figure on a general stand, just for color.

Alternately, it might make for an interesting skirmish level game a la Sharpe. The noble emperor and his bodyguard as the last to leave a doomed Vienna in 1809…

On 4.viii.1813 the Bohemian Noble Guard of 120 (including servants) was created. In 1814 a special gold cross was awarded them for their service in the field during the 1813-14 campaign.

I'm with you, Alte Fritz. Let such folks learn to play solitaire. It's likely what they do in their love life.

thank you thegoldygopher i will paint them up.i thought it might be a surprize to bring them on in a game and not tell the other side who/or what they are tell they got into the fight?my first troops i ever painted was the 4th grenz and they have never failed me so far.if any one want to talk more by e-mail it is spydr122@yahoo.com
the guy i war game with loves it when i play the austrians they lose but they take alot of french with them.when we play we 1000 troops to a side or so.

robert

Robert

If you lose when you play Austrians you really ought to find out why. A small Guard unit is not going to make any difference…

To me the charm of the Austrians is that there are no Guard units. No super-troops, no show-pony generals. It is an army where you have to think, to plan and to handle with predictable precision.

Oh well

K

Like I said I originally painted up a Stand of the Austrian Guard to be color for an Emperor Francis stand. After a while the figures took a life of their own and suddenly I have a SocDaisy Corps including a Jersey on the Corps command stand.

In historical games these figures never leave the box, however when the games take a more fanciful or fantasy flavor the Austrian Guard is on the March.

The Austrians had no battlefield guard units for sure, at least none with those titles. However several of their units (horse and foot) were considered elite units such as infantry regiments #1 Kaiser.#3 Erzherzog Karl and #4 Deutchmeister. These were fashionable units that the more military minded members of the nobility gravitated to, which got the best recruits and training (and no doubt the cushiest postings and billets) and were kept up to strength i.e. just the same circumstances and treatment that other nations guards troops got.

Giving someone the title "Guard" doesn't make them any better in itself. The Austrians do have large formations of elite troops -Grenadiers, excellent light infantry- Jagers and some cavalry that in many campaigns were superior to Napoleon's. An excellent army that mainly aquited itself well. Which cannot be said about its leaders and command system and it is this where the French were markedly superior indeed.

Graham

The GoldyGopher

Hmmm. If you want fantasy buy some elves.

K

Khrvrnhuller

Hmmm. Actually the Austrians, er I mean the Ostria, are represented by Dogs.

And yes I have a Ferach Elven Army.

Flintloque and Slaterloo are a fun set of rules to play if you get a chance.

Goldy

Goldy

In the middle of offloading all my Flintloque stuff atm, The Ostarians went first. But even then there were no Guard….

K

Khevenhuller,

Are you arguing that the Austrian Guard didn't exist or that the OP author shouldn't waste his time painting up the 30 some figures needed at 1:60?

In game terms The Leibgarde Infantry Company, Leibgarde Reiter Eskedron, and Bohemian Nobles Guard all saw action in 1814 campaigns. At 1:60 that's 3 Infantry and 4 Cavalry figures. If that is the campaign the author wants to play than you can't even argue that it's not historical.

Now I read the OP and figured the Author is bored of painting Austrians and wanted to paint something with Color. That's the authors choice. Now is he painting a huge bullseye on himself and his army. Well again that's his choice.

It's the same choice made by players who paint up a French Converged Grenadier Corps (Not the Young Guard) for Fall 1813 campaign. It was funny once but on the third game when the Converged Grenadier Corps had grown to two Corps it was time for the Austrian Players to pull out two Reserve Corps, the Russian Player to pull out the V Corps and both Converged Grenadier Corps and more Heavy Cavalry than you can shake a stick at. Heck I think even the British Guard Cavalry made an appearance that day on the Battlefield in Wallmoden's Corps.

Goldy

i have been playing for 25 plus years.we play CLS at 1/20 scale,know how many figure's would that be for each of the austrian guad units unit's?the troops(98% are minifigs,some falcon,hinchcliff).
over the years mark(been playing 10 years) and i have done at least 10 games were i was the austrians and i lost 8 of them due mostly to bad dice rolls and one flank failing in one way or another.just bad luck.
i try to paint units that are hard to find and that know one else wants to do;for example i have the whole regular troops done for hesse-darmstadt.i have units that are only a batt. a couple of squadrons big in other couties. i have some ottomans and i have some USA troops also,american indains also.i am painting an 1807 sweden army.i plan on doing more for denmark and norway troops also.
to khevenhuller and thegoldygopher thank you for your comments and advices.i have alot of books but not enough for all that i plan to paint.
robert

Hmmm

Cannot imagine they took the field in ceremonial uniform though…

K

Böhmischen Adelsgarde or Böhmischen Nobelgarde; Emanuel Graf Wratislaw kaptain.

… 38 Mitglieder der Böhmischen Nobelgarde, die an den Kämpfen teilgenommen hatten, ausgezeichnet.

Hufs- und Militärpersonal der Böhmischen Nobelgarde ….

I did the French Neuchatel bn just because it is odd. The few times I have put them on the table they are major bullet magnets. it seems people are offended by orange uniforms.

But consider all the interesting comments they have gotten instead of just one more regular french unit.

The 1814 Gold Cross of the Bohemian Noble Guard:

picture

I like the granetrot colour.

Hey, Fritz,
the old Courier had a scenario for Nap French Guard and Russian Guard units to slug it out.
Surely a mixture of Young and Old Guard units, Grenadiers a cheval and Dragoons dela Impetrice could be used against your friends elite-heavy Austrians?

K. K. Garden uniforms:

link

so where do i go to get the info on how big these unit's are?
robert

Trabantenleibgarde: 100 Mann.

UngarischeAdeligeLeibgarde (Ungarische Nobelgarde, praetoriana nobilis turma): 183 Mann.

GalizischeAdeligeLeibgarde: Still looking!

Hofburgwache: 87, later 140 Mann.

Böhmische Adelsgarde: 120 Mann.

I note that during the 1809 campaign, the Emperor had with him in the field the following from the Leibgarden:

Vom k. k. Obersthofmeisterstabe: k. k. Arcierenleibgarden: der Garde- und Sekondwachtmeister Rittmeister Freiherr von Henneberg, die k. k. Garden und Rittmeister Joseph von Gansel, von Sebes, Franz von Schwab, Wiesner von Wiessenheim, Pospischel von Porspischel und Brühl, 4 Bediente.

Königliche ungarische Leibgarden: Unterkommandant der Freiherr von Henneberg, die k. k. Leutnants und Garden von Medzihradsky, von Illyes, von Morway, von Adam, von Bodo, von Baan, 4 Reitknechte, 3 Feldlehenknechte.

K. k. Hofburgwache: der k. k. Hauptmann und Kommandant Chevalier Wilson, 1 Feldwebel, 4 Korporale, 2 Vizekorporale, 64 teils berittene, [?] teils unberittene Gemeine. 1 Fourierschutz.

thank you for all the help.i will be getting the troups as soon as i can.
if any one has pictures of these guys i would like to see them?so i can paint them the right way.
thank you again;
robert