"Serenity, Millenium Falcon, and..." Topic

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Your favorite ship to be a member aboard…in the RPG sense and in context to the size and function of the above…

The characters are making their way doing their thing without huge support (money). So the ship should not be a capitol ship or a battlestar.

A 5-20 berthed ship with potential for gaming character missions…rescues, salvage, pirating, mercs, safari, shipping, etc..

What design stands out for you and why? Lots of crew space, good food processors, giant kitchen, huge engine, etc..

The Voyager (not Proteus) from the cartoon version of "Fantastic Voyage": link

(And check out the rest of the Fantastic Plastic site for more cool spaceship models. It's a great site.)

Given your 5-20 crew berth the Falcon seems a bit small considering the crew quarters but they may be hot bunking.

I find it curious that the diagram of the Falcon does not show the gun turrets which would be an advantage if you were all about the pirating as the Firefly class ships were unarmed (except for the brief time Serenity had the cannon strapped to the outside) the other main advantage of the Falcon is the hyper drive allowing for a greater number of ports you could call on.

Comfort wise I'd have to pick Serenity for its living space and on board galley.

Serenity stands out as a more believable ship design – the Falcon, while cool – had a very strange layout for a transport ship – cargo always had to be LIFTED into the dang thing – often through spaces where you wouldn't want to push it. It certainly wasn't a bulk freighter by any means. Also, it would depend on your "universe" as the need for turret mounted weapons systems on a transport ship while also cool – may or may not be useful to the players.

That layout for the Millennium Falcon is absurd.

The "Main Cargo Hold" doesn't have direct exterior access? In fact, you have to move through two other chambers to reach it from the main cargo loading doors?!?

What are the life support systems doing in a cargo bay? Why isn't there direct access to them from the cockpit, or at least the cockpit corridor, in the event of an emergency? Instead you have to run down the corridor to the center of the ship, cross to the port side and go through three cargo areas (presumably full of cargo) to reach this essential system. Better hope nothing goes wonky, or the crew is toast.

Lastly, why is there a third/fourth cargo bay attached to the engine room? Why would you take cargo through the engine room at all? And why is there so much empty space in the engine room? Where the heck are the engines? I know Han "modified" the ship himself, but ripping out the power plant doesn't strike me as a viable "modification."

Oh well. The off-center cockpit was bad enough, but sheesh…

(And yet the M. Falcon still ranks among me all-time favorite spaceships. It helps to have been twelve, I guess… )

Lexx.
-Kle.

Actually, Moya seems pretty good, though I'd rather have something with a few guns.
-Kle.

Parzival

That sounds like the perfect "Government built by committee" design that would be built in thousands and loathed by most of its users. Cheap and crap, but cheap.

"Cheap and crap, but cheap."

Wasn't that the point of the Falcon? Authorities thought it was just another of those horrible ships, so they would leave it alone. Under the hood, however, Lando and Han tricked it out. The perfect smuggler. They could live with the horrible interior design.

I always liked the Far Trader.

The falcon always reminded me of the hippie converted school bus or that crappy RV your uncle used to go to Belize…with the addition of a huge engine hidden under the crappy hood.

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Since no serious bulk shipping is going to happen in a ship as small as the Falcon, it defaults to specialized shipping. Hand loaded in many cases, though assisted by the SW universe's omnipresent anti-grav technology. Whether it is legitimate or not.

The Firefly class gets away with being small because the magic terraforming available means most worlds are self-sufficient, so a lot of shipping is small-scale. The cargo deck is still large enough to ship a couple dozen head of cattle, and its configured for small scale RO-RO ("Roll On – Roll Off") operations, but the short shipping times and rural nature of most of its customers allows for a small ship to be effective.

Note that the Firefly class is apparently in the same category as the Corellian Stock Light Freighter in one respect: both are so common in their respective settings that "the authorities" have trouble telling them apart.

That Millennium Falcon floorplan not only has virtually inaccessible "holds," but a lot of wasted space.

Personally, I have a lot of spaceship floorplans, and when I was running Traveller years ago I realized I didn't like any of them. To straightforward. Efficient, simple, and terrible for gaming. By which I mean terrible for a GM who wants to make players miserable.

The Firefly is believable and cool, but has the same problem.

There should be more than one route between any two points. This makes it easier to evade or ambush, harder to catch the murderer, etc. There should be annoying nooks and crannies everywhere. If you have to search the ship, it should take several people in order to make sure whoever you're searching for doesn't slip through.

The Millennium Falcon is basically a ring with some paths running out.

Serentity is essentially a line with branches. This probably *is* how a spaceship that size would be built, but it doesn't add to the drama.

So I designed my own. No time to dig out the plans, but here are the things I managed to incorporate which made the game better.

First, a figure-or-eight hall plan. Its easier to layout and disguise that you would think. Yes, that's more hall space than a "real" ship would have, but it makes the chases and gunfights better.

Second, two overlapping levels. This gives people another way to move around and gives a better sense of space. Serenity has the great feeling of being in a three dimensional thing, but it doesn't do anything beyond that. Even a shuttle on top or a fuel tank access way below create more ways the murderer could have gotten off the bridge.

Third, cat-walks. Gotta have 'em. Given containerized shipping there's no reason you can't stack cargo, and a taller cargo deck also lets you take on really large single objects, so its easy to rationalize a two-story cargo deck. And a two-story cargo deck lets you have catwalks around the perimeter, and hey, why not, across the middle (it could be moveable). People can fall off cat-walks.

Fourth, rather than have a ship five or six crew could operate, I went with a larger ship and made the characters the officers. They oversaw NPC crew, which gave me all kinds of opportunities: they could know helpful stuff I needed to hand to the players, they could get killed to increase drama, they could be sloppy and require careful supervision, they had ethnic traditions that caused trouble, they provided extra red-herring suspects, and most of all they let me make the ship bigger.

Personally, I made the ship dilapidated as well. A proper ship, with all its security cameras, nav systems, safety features, and railings intact would be about as much fun as a flying on an airliner.

I actually made the captain an NPC as often as not. Usually a semi-competent jerk who kept in his cabin, let the players run the ship, and came out to yell at them now and then. Boy that was fun. Plus, he got murdered pretty often, come to think of it. Captain as NPC lets you drop arbitrary requirements on players, shout at them for little reason, and prevents the situation where one player is the captain and has more fun than the others.

Short of all that, I'm going to give a second vote for the Empress Marava class Far Trader. As a matter of fact, if you add an access corridor on the upper deck from the engine room through the fuel tanks to the passenger quarters at the front, it has a fair number of routes and crannies.

Andrew

5 -20 crew.
one of 2 ships then
DSV-2 Liberator 6 crims and a computer
Andromida asendant 1 heroic officer, 1 AI and 5 dubious outhers
failing that something like a jump capable eagle form space1999 dig the modular loading

Looking at the Falcon, it looks like the cargo hold has been subdivided – sections 7, 9, 10 and 11. Note that section 10 has the freight loading elevator, so assuming those sections are all one room on a stock freighter, there's no issue there.

Sections 15 and 16 are either extra cargo space stuck in because there was room in the design, or engineering space and spare parts storage. It's possible Han (or Lando) moved the life support systems out of there when they fitted a better hyperdrive and main engines.

Remember, this is a plan of the Millennium Falcon, not a stock YT-1300; Hand and Chewie live in the thing, when they're not hiding spice and contraband in nooks and crannies. They've turned part of the cargo bay into their living space, after all.

I've got to disagree with Andrew Walters, though; I want my SF ship designs to look believable, rather than designed for interesting firefights. In a Serenity game, after all, if there's a firefight onboard, someone's mucked up badly; if there's no decent catwalks and choke points, tough.

Nothing really new to add here…I like the Falcon, Serenity, and Moya. Moya's actually quite huge, with tons of places to hide and corridors to run through. Any floorplans (I don't know of any off-hand?) could probably easily be modified to represent a non-living ship.

Not sure if it fits the size requirements, and I don't remember the crew compliment (none: they were all dead), but I think I'd like the SS Madame de Pompadour please. I like the idea of a spaceship with its own horse, and one where you could take periodic holidays in 18th Century France without having to leave the ship.

The killer robots would put a bit of a damper on things, though. Would have to look into sorting them out. Perhaps they could be persuaded to play chamber music rather than going on a homicidal rampage through time?

As you like it, but I'm going to say Believable+Hi Tech=boring.

If there are cameras everywhere, biometric access to computers and doors, AI anti-hijacking software, safety sensors on every piece of equipment, RFID-tracked cargo, trained and certified crew, and ergonomically designed floorplans, what kind of adventures are you going to have? Police procedurals, that's what.

If you want cowboys in space, and I know I do, then you want Serenity and the Falcon. You want something designed for some other purpose and adapted on a budget. Given the level of maintenance available, Serenity wouldn't be airtight, for crying out loud.

Sci Fi, except in the hardest of hard sci fi, is fun scientific justifications for for really fun situations. I favor good justifications over bad ones, but I don't favor better justifications over more fun. I don't like fourth-rate justifications, but I'll settle for second-rate justifications for better drama.

Andrew

The Heart of Gold. We did actually run a home-brew Hitchhiker's RPG when I were a lad …

Anything but the Sulaco…

Now this topic made me think long and hard, and in some ways I am still thinking about it; Though I do have a suggestion already from literature.

There is a ship with landing capability, a design capable of RO-RO contanier handling, and just about the right size – Angus McKie did the definitive artwork for it on many book covers, and that ship is . . . 'The Hooded Swan' from the Brian Stableford stories.

Have to think on the rest . . .

Everyone knows the Empress Marava class A-2 Far Trader is the finest adventurer merchant ship ever made. RO-RO loading ramp, cargo airlocks, gun turrets and an engine room that's large but a little hard to get too when the groat hits the iris valve. Plus an isolated passenger compartment (keeps those pesky civvies out of the ship's operations), fuel scoops and purifcation gear, and a slight nod toward the Millenium Falcon's visual coolness.

What's not to love?

RO-RO, as in the Empress Marava class, the Firefly class, and that thing I designed, is a great feature. Very believable, gives you a great big bay, and allows embarcation firefights and generaly on-board-on-land interactions. I highly recommend it.

Andrew

I likes this one…she is a might bit of wah aiya
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I would take this type to be adaptable into a container cargo vessel…the latch from above and carry the cargo secured within the belly of the beast.

Yes it is a SW ship, but I picture have the engines operating and maybe partially removed for salvage/trade, guns more or less removed (stored in pieces throughout ship, just in case), and made ready to run UPS RO-RO style, in and out.

Covert…like this? picture

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Marava class trade ship

I know, just a little posting boo-tai jung-tzahng-duh today.

A classic traveller size chart showing several ship designs…everyone has seen it, but a good reference point anew.
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And then the mother of all that is wah Da-shiang bao-tza shr duh lah doo-tze the master chart of ships of all types.
merzo.net

Good stuff

"failing that something like a jump capable eagle form space1999 dig the modular loading"

Oh, a Super Swift

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Here is a weird one, the Eagle is not that much smaller than the Firefly class…missing some width

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Good for the more classic real space look

Andrew…
"As you like it, but I'm going to say Believable+Hi Tech=boring.

If there are cameras everywhere, biometric access to computers and doors, AI anti-hijacking software, safety sensors on every piece of equipment, RFID-tracked cargo, trained and certified crew, and ergonomically designed floorplans, what kind of adventures are you going to have? Police procedurals, that's what."

Ok I am with you…but work with this…in today's (near future) world you are working with UPS global as a contractor, in the Amazon Jungle. A normal UPS planes flies in, makes the drop (maybe literally), and then you get it…1.4 billion acres of potential delivery locations. You have standard UPS vehicle or not, but either way it is modified so you can survive the days or weeks it takes to get in and get out. So lets assume the classic brown truck could get through a reasonable portion of the jungle (water, mud, upper/lower canopy, etc.)…if you can put your head around same generation terraforming I can have this one, ok?…now modify it for live aboard. You are speciallized so not quanity of packages but quality or really good single drops. Half the truck is for your comfort, add two partners (taking samples for science, special courier, mechanic/technician service call, etc.) and you have the cowboy seat of your pants in a big brown UPS truck.

Make that a big brown UPPS (united planetary parcel service) cargo ship on the edge of no where, delivering who knows what to who knows who…cowboy science fiction.

I imagine being a UPS guy in the Bronx, the Battery, and Harlem can be interesting for a challenge.

some beautiful spaceship art
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Having served on the closest thing to a deep-space transport vessel (a submarine), I can tell you that the crew accommodations for Serenity are a little nicer than what I'd expect to see, but hot racking to save space for other stuff? Not only no but [5-minute expletive-laced rant deleted] NO!

Your smallest possible spaceship crew is going to be about 10: Captain, XO/purser, 4 guys in engineering (3 rotating shifts with the Chief Engineer working a kickout), another 4 guys driving (3 shifts with the Nav working a kickout), plus deck apes/EVA workers (if you need them).

Assuming the standard 6-hour shift and the CHENG and Nav taking the 'morning' watch, you stand the midwatch and evening watch one day, the afternoon watch the next, the officer takes your morning watch, and then you stand mid- and evening again (restarting the cycle). It's effectively 2 days on, one day off.

I'll also point out that there are ALWAYS two ways out of any compartment/space, but there aren't necessarily two corridors anywhere.

Example: there's only one interior access into the engineroom. There's a (call it an airlock), but that goes outside. Inside the engineroom, there's a couple different paths to get places, but only one way to move fore&aft in the lowest level. (design paradigm assumes gravity, microgravity would reduce total volume required, but not access issues)

As far as most believable spaceship design, my preference is Serenity. The Roll-on, Roll-off cargo bay is a godsend (assuming that you have an atmosphere-capable spaceship). If I was designing from scratch, I'd have a ship that could re-enter (at least once), but was designed to take cargo ferried up from surface while the ship is in orbit.

BTW, what's wrong with the Sulaco? The design's not BAD, it's just a little underdeveloped.

Great points LotS, most people who have not served on any sort of working vessel would barely grasp the 24/7 of the required shift routine.

Best case with future advances is that the bulk of the AUX watches, ENG watches, and midpoint steerage/NAV would be at least partially automated with secondary backup systems, so some of the watches could be reduced…if not eliminated.

But for the romantic vision of space opera cowboys there should be some sort of watch set to check for issues with the attentive human eye for detail.

I also think there should be (for gaming purposes) a larger ship be it pusher tug/passenger/etc. that has space docking, working ship(like a fork lift in space), and potentially atmos shuttle. Makes more sense to pick up and drop bulk items in space, then let the locals deal with dropping to the surface…or be that ship that does the local drops and deliveries…but to do both seems odd.

Taking drops from space to local moon base, space stations, astroid belt miners, and making jaunts to the surface would provide many a potential gaming opportunity.

For a space freighter, I've always liked the Babylon 5 Earth Alliance freighters. There are a few designs but I can only find a few pics, none of which are the one I like. Some are shown here link

The one I'm thinking of is a cross between the first and second. Essentially it's a long central spindle with the engines on one end and the "bridge" (and maybe the living quarters) on the other. The cargo is then attached in the relevant container type around the spindle. You can always rotate a spindle section if the cargo requires gravity.

If we're really going to talk realistic, there's a strong tend towards automation and much smaller naval/merchant marine crews today. The engine room of a spacecraft may not need constant attendance. Modern jet liners have an engineer, but I have some recollection that this position is being phased out. In any case, he's nowhere near the engines, just watching dials. Since the pilot's job and engineers job are both partially automated, maybe that's only one position. You don't have to rework your flight plan very often, if you ever want to arrive.

So maybe there's just one guy awake and watching the pilot and engineering functions. He can wake everyone else up if anything happens.

As for space, unless you have berthing limitations, you can have all the space you want. The increase in metal, and therefore mass and fuel requirements, to double a cube is only 25%. Now. that's assuming you don't have to generate a "warp field" or "deflector field," which might be an engineering reason to minimize ship volume. Regardless, crew space is going to be a small part of the ship, so doubling crew space will probably only mean a 5% increase in overall volume or weight. So I think larger crew quarters are not unreasonable.

And, of course, realism means you will almost certainly have different craft for atmospheric and interplanetary work. Which, again, is no fun.

Lastly, realism means avoiding the unexpected. Even as late as WW2 I've read autobiographies of pilots making up their own missions, landing in fields and spending the night with farmers, letting visiting pilots from other types of squadrons or even other nationalities try out their planes, and the rest of that cowboy stuff. I know it wasn't all like that Black Sheep tv show, but it was a lot looser than today. Today a pilot may have some input on his mission, but not a lot. He's assigned everything – aircraft, refueling rendezvous, targets, sock color. There are check lists for everything. There is no "winging" it. If you watch those videos on youtube Apache pilots have to get clearance from someone back at base before shooting at terrorists caught in the act by night vision. I'm not criticizing all this in real life, its necessary to operate these incredibly complex networks of aircraft with the rather impressive safety record they have. But it doesn't make for RPG fun.

So I say give "realism" a rest. Figure out what gives the story form and flavor you want, and then use your creativity to justify that.

Andrew

Andrew, again good points and yes at some point realism has to take a back seat or even ride in the trunk when applied to a gaming situation.

I was working on a series of ship construction issues to allow for refit on the fly as it were and it left me with a modular design and thusly a more real space look…that is why I asked the question of "what kind of ships do you like for RPG (cargo, delivery, tradesmen, etc.)".

As for the "And, of course, realism means you will almost certainly have different craft for atmospheric and interplanetary work. Which, again, is no fun." thought…well if it is one of those "just accept all is well towards science (terraforming, anti-grav, star trek aliens, etc.)" games then this is not an issue, but with a little bit of real space then you must have the shuttle deal.

I like the idea of a second or even third ship option…Serenity had their ATV and the grav skif, so no real difference for me.

As a GM I can ruin a runabout or a shuttle without killing their main ship thusly allowing for drama without taking away hope.

Another good point of the main ship and shuttle combo is that you can retain a sense of real space form and function with the boxy, modular, framed main ship and have some style with the atmos capable shuttle/smaller ship due to the required lines for entry/reentry.

Yes indeed.

IIRC, in Traveller, the airraft is capable of achieving a low planetary orbit, making it a viable "in a pinch" shuttle (assuming you have vac suits).

In classic Traveller the type S scout outfitted with adventurers in a perfect vehicle,while not a dedicated merchantmen,space has been made for exquisite cargoes much like the here maligned falcon.Small un destinguished,her crew- capt ,gunner ,engineer and 2-3 swabbies,the type s had 4 dual occupancy state rooms with crew lounge and storage area possible mods.You might be cramped but a servicable craft.Just remember to change the rebreather filters.

When I talk about having one guy on watch in the engineering spaces, he's triple/quadruple-hatting. He's keeping an eye on the atmosphere controls, he's managing the powerplant, he's cleaning stuff (to prevent fires), and he's possibly doing a little maintenance (changing fuses/lights/etc).

The flight guys are listening for radio chatter, manning radar/lidar/passive EM detection, also keeping an eye on atmospherics, and babysitting any passengers on board.

The reason the flight engineer isn't in a commercial airplane anymore is that every carrier has cooperative maintenance agreements. If something goes very wrong, you can land anywhere and someone will fix it (had a copilot's windshield break on a Northwest Airlines 727, first replacement arrived broken, ended up borrowing a new unit from FedEx). If you're in deep space and something breaks, either you fix it then or you die. It's a lot closer to Age of Sail than flying a 747.

My sub had an on-watch section of 10 in engineering, 4-5 midships, and 18-20 forward. That doesn't count the cooks, or kickouts. That's 32-35 on watch for a military vessel, with 3+ sections available total (there's always extra personnel, like CO/XO/Nav/Eng/Weps). The Seawolf/Virginia classes run smaller, 8-9 in engineering, and 14 forward, for a total of 22-23 on watch, again not counting cooks, kickouts, and senior officers.

Civilians don't need anywhere near as much (we had huge redundancies, especially in sensors and engineering), and I believe that a large container ship runs a crew of: helmsman, engineer-of-the-watch, plus 2 more in each section, for a total crew of 12, plus Captain and XO/Purser (or whatever you call the designated paperwork weenie). You don't necessarily need a large deck department (cargo handlers are available wherever you unload).

Atomic Ray: RFID-tracked cargo = hackable path into the cargo handling system (drama for smugglers/pirates), trained and certified crew = professionals with enough skills to fix stuff MacGuyver-style a very long way from home (stuff ALWAYS breaks, drama a la Phoenix/Castaway/Lost), and ergonomically-designed floorplans don't exist onboard ship. There's always stuff leaning out to grab or bite you, especially air-tight hatches.

You're looking at a different kind of drama, which needs a different storytelling style to convey. Cold Equations, anyone?

Lion that is good stuff my friend.

I have been looking at a C-130 as a typical todays reference to a science fiction RPG cargo/runner type ship.

Using the crew compliment, the potential for cargo (folded up helo, stacked drop boxes, trucks, or rows of people and any mixture of the same), tight quarters when loaded, open tail for RO-RO loads, and you have a decent RPG boat.

I am looking at combining a space 1999 eagle picture
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and the basic form/function and center body of a C-130 link
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and just for grins hoping to end somewhere near this picture

this is cool also (quite sub like..hhhmmmm) picture

A quick follow up to the crew compliment I am looking at for RPG size craft: (C-130/j/j30)

Minimum Crew Complement Four
(two pilots, one flight engineer, and one loadmaster)
Allows for a 16 hour crew duty day (12 hour for airdrop crews)

Mission Crew Five (two pilots, a navigator, flight engineer and loadmaster); up to 92 troops or 64 paratroops or 74 litter patients or five standard freight pallets.

Standard Crew Complement Six[airdrop missions]
crews will normally carry one navigator as well and an extra loadmaster in addition to the minimum crew complement.

Augmented Crew Complement Nine(three pilots, two navigators, two flight engineers, and two loadmasters)
Allows for a 24 hour crew duty day.

So the baseline for today's C-130 crew is 4-9 or 6.5 which is a good number for a classic science fiction cargo/runner/scout/etc. crew…3-5 PC with potential for an NPC or 2.

Good call, but you're going to want to run on the large side of that, standing more than 6 hours looking at the same, (ideally) unchanging panels puts people to sleep in a hurry.

When my RP group ran Alternity, we ended up with a couple NPC engineers and an NPC pilot or two (plus an NPC Marine squad for a time). It let us assume that we could run rotations and keep everyone reasonably fresh, and gave us some spare bodies for Damage Control and/or cargo handling, while still having PCs at stations that mattered for the important times.

Oh, and for my absolute minimum crew, that's ONE guy on watch in engineering, and one guy on watch as the 'pilot' at any given time. Due to the need for crew rotations, you'd need at least 3 bodies for each watch-section. You MIGHT be able to drop 2 guys, and have the Captain and the Purser stand watch too, but that only gets you down to 6, and crew endurance gets to be an issue. You just get mind-numb after about 4-6 weeks, and you need to put in at a port for a couple days to re-set mentally. You can't stand port and starboard for more than a week before you get seriously inattentive/unsafe.

So, absolute minimum crew is 6, with the Captain standing watch. 8-10 is better, and allows for a couple NPCs (loadmasters, anyone?). This also assumes that someone is (or several someones are) doublehatting as ship's cook, instead of having a dedicated, non-watchstanding cook or two (you really need two cooks, one handles midrats and breakfast, the other handles lunch and dinner). Bad food will destroy morale faster than leaks in the ship, but another option would be for the crew to rotate cooking (or DIY meals, since there's only 2-3 eating at one time).

Now, about berthing: Captain will have a personal stateroom, everyone else will probably share a space with another crewmember.

I would have to choose the Fiery Phoenix from G-Force Battle of the Planets.

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I've always liked the descriptions of ships in C J Cherryh's "Downbelow Station" novels. I dont really have a mental picture of what they look like, although references to a rotating ring section suggest something pretty un-ship-like.

Although the family/crews could number 100's, they could also operate with much smaller crews – generally not standing watch on straightforward transits of unoccupied space. Big ships with small crews suggest a lot of scope for on-board play.

You might not have a pilot standing watch, but that would require a change to the Rules of the Road (which both wet-navy and aircraft abide by): You *MUST* have someone keeping watch. Failure to do so is punishable by any court in any jurisdiction, including an Admiralty court.

Also, you're smoking something if you think any spacer is going to let the atmosphere control system's alarms and self-monitoring equipment do anything unattended. You last roughly 30 seconds in zero pressure, and will black out quickly under exertion at pressure equivalent to 14,000 feet (roughly 7psi). At a pressure of 5psi, that better be pure oxygen, or you're going to suffer extreme hypoxia and pass out in less than 1 minute.

Atmosphere is life in a spacecraft. Someone (a live body, not the computer) will always be watching the atmosphere for trace toxics, and the various gas partial-pressures (wiki link ). For example, oxygen cannot safely be below 0.16bar ever. Oxygen should not exceed 0.25bar for fire-safety. Nitrogen becomes toxic at higher pressures, but not those seen in a spacecraft (where total atmospheric pressure is usually 10-12psi).

The atmosphere issue is always the #2 issue that most people writing scifi don't pay attention to. The need for continuous crewing is the #1 thing that isn't watched. (sorry, pet peeves of mine)

In the C J Cherryh Universe the Warp Jumps took a finite time (elapsed weeks) in which humans had to drug themselves to sleep. (Also, electronics were unreliable during the transitions to and from FTL flight).

Although she didnt work through the details of this, it would imply ships where fairly simple very robust systems could be left looking after themselves during FTL transitions. She does mention a lot of redundancy on critical systems.

My point being that, on her initial premise, ships ran unattended a lot of the time anyway so doing it a bit more in-system is more of a traffic violation than a critical risk (mostly).

Even with a redundant atmosphere-processing system (not to mention the plan B of "surface and open the hatches"), there's two people and a computer logging atmospheres in a submarine.

Like I said, it's a pet peeve of mine (one that I didn't have before I was in the Navy, stationed on subs, I might add).

Quadruply redundant systems, like the F117 or space shuttle? They can have *two* failures before you're in trouble (also, how do you know which system(s) are giving false info?). You cannot afford to have ANY failures in the Atmosphere Controls system, as it will very quickly either kill the crew/passengers by hypoxia, or the oxygen saturation will result in a fire, like what happened to Apollo 1. Neither one is conducive to happy crews, and both are conducive to dead crews and lost cargoes.

"More of a traffic violation than a critical risk"? A paint flake nearly punched through a window on the Space Shuttle. A pound of sand at counter-orbital velocities (moving the opposite direction to the target) will eliminate every single satellite that crosses the sand's path. A bolt would hard-kill the Shuttle, and running into something larger, like another spaceship, would be fatal for both ships.

Every year, there are dozens of small craft that are literally run over by large merchant vessels. It's usually the small craft's fault for wandering into the shipping lanes, but it's still BOTH vessel's responsibility to steer clear of each other. If you're talking 100kilotonne or megatonne starships, (the Shuttle is about 100 tonnes), this starts to be planet-threatening in case of severe 'oh '. Meteor Crater, Arizona link is the result of a roughly 300kilotonne rock impacting at orbital speeds. It's a mere 9-10 megaton (nuclear-boom, not mass of impactor) impact. That's a bit more than a traffic violation.

i take your point – but it is "only pretend" and i'm willing to cut the author some slack in return for interesting fiction.

IIRC the collision thing is partly dealt with by suggesting that the collapsing warp field had some repulsive tendencies. as for the air, if you physically cant work I guess you develop atmosphere systems with enough redundancy – evolution in action as they say.