"Looking for a WWII Skirmish ruleset..." Topic

Wow, how open ended is that title! I know there are a plethora of good games and plenty of proponents of each and I have been lurking for a while and looking into different ones. I have a couple things I am looking for, so far I haven't found them all in one ruleset. So I am going to throw my "wants" out there and see if anybody recognizes a game that fits what I am looking for. Here it goes:

1) 1:1 scale
2) compatible with 20mm/1/72
3) Card based random initiative, no "I go, you go"
4) Simple, fast playing, yet "Feels" authentic
5) Easy to understand rules, good support
6) Units stats on individual cards rather than having to consult reams of charts to see what happens every time I shoot.
7) Uses six-sided dice.
8) Hex based movement and range rather than tape measuring everything.
9) Attractive young lady to rub my shoulders while I play.

OK the last one is optional. I don't think such a game exists, if it does consider it ordered immediately. Anything close or am I out of luck? I have BGWWII and like some aspects of it but it is not what I am looking for. I thought about TFoB but they are about to release a 2nd edition, plus I've heard the rules can be tough to wrap your head around at first, plus the dice…I'd rather throw a fistful of D6 over D10's any day, not sure why it bugs me but I can't handle D10's and 20's. Anybody have a suggestion that comes close to what I am looking for?

Well, if you can wait till the end of the year, we can meet 7 of your 9 requirements . . . Shhh! Keep it close to your vest! ;)

You're talking about Nuts! except for points 8 & 9.

You're talking about Nuts! except for points 8 & 9.

Thanks blacksmith, I just downloaded "Chain Reaction 2.0" and am reading those and so far I kinda like them. I guess Nuts! is based on those rules, right? CR2.0 doesn't have card based initiative, does Nuts!?

Well, if you can wait till the end of the year, we can meet 7 of your 9 requirements . . . Shhh! Keep it close to your vest! ;)

I'll keep it quiet, I promise. Now what have you got in the works?

NUTS, or TW&T from toofatlardies would cover this.

Nuts does not have card-based activation, but it is definitely *not* "i go, u go", so I'd give it a 1/2 credit on requirement #3, if not a complete credit. It used an activation roll, which determines which (if any) figures may activate on any given turn.

Regarding requirement 6, Nuts excels in that you have a set of Quick Reference Sheets (QRS), and look up everything against each figure's single rating: their "REP".

Nuts is based on CR 2.0, but there have been some definite changes for WWII.

Is card-based activation a must, or simply not "i go, u go"?

- Bob

"Well, if you can wait till the end of the year, we can meet 7 of your 9 requirements . . . Shhh! Keep it close to your vest! ;)"

Shawn,

Your evil with all these new things for me to buy, but I am interested in some rules to go along with NUTS! for WWII in 15mm, so you have my interest again . . . .

Jeff

Get TWAT from the LARDIES – no hexes, no back rub, but everything else is there.

The Face of Battle covers all but points 7., 8., and 9.

Arc of Fire meets many of your criteria and is the best system I've played for quick play skirmish. I don't care for overwrought granularity and there is no need to keep a card for each unit. Two page chart includes all weapons and the single effect table, all of which you will have memorized in about three minutes. Its d10 though, and the traditional measured distances, I also have never had a massage whilst playing, but that is more a user error than a problem with the rules.

Incidentally, I think your desire for a hex based game will lead you into madness. It is so much easier to measure than count hexes constantly, plus you never have to worry about hexing out your terrain or etc.

Also, and maybe you already know this, I've not met a gamer that only has ONE set of rules for a period.

Disposable Heroes
1-Yes
2-Yes
3-Teams of five. I go you go. But not card driven. But you could use cards if you wanted to.
4-Yes
5-Yes, Authors stalk the yahoo group praying for questions.
6-No cards. But simple charts made for babies.
7-No, D10
8-No, Hexes suck, what are you thinking.
9-Hire a highclass hooker on gamesnight

@Buzzkill – We're working on a WWII variant that we hope will be ready in time for Christmas. It won't feature card based activation, but it will NOT be IGOUGO, either. It won't be hex based, but you also won't spend all your time measuring ranges and movement to the nearest 1/8th of an inch. We think you'll like it!

Sorry, couldn't figure out how to edit my post so I deleted it. Here it is in its corrected form:

8-No, Hexes suck, what are you thinking.

So I have been told, but I find it much easier and quicker playing on hexes. Measuring is a cinch and facing is never in question. Nothing sucks like trying to thread a tape measure through terrain features, knocking stuff over, or haggling over an eighth of an inch or playing with that guy who has the hinky tape measure, you know who you are! I know hexes aren't popular in 20mm skirmishing, but I was making a wish list after all.

I second Arc of Fire. It has six of your nine requirments. It uses a d10, desnt use hexes and you have to find you roem masseuse.

It is a fun fasat game theat can be used for a variety of periods and scales.

Arc of Fire

I second Disposable heroes rules, despite the lack of beautiful babes massaging and "i go, you go", no hexes (yucky), and those crazy d10(i got used to it). I have been playing it for 4 years as my main rule set, it's superior. Play a game at a con and play "Nuts"-see what suits you.

So, Ambush Alley, you SAY you've got 7 of the 9 requirements covered. You also say, it's not hex based, and not you-go-I-go. SO, how are you going to package the attractive woman????? :)

Shameless plug for neglected homepage. Under 'Game reports' you can find AAR from one of my first games with 'Arc of Fire'. It's a pretty good ruleset, but IMO should not be compared with 'Nuts'. Those two are very different animals.

hem.bredband.net/b524563

Vogless – I can't give away all my trade secrets, but I'll give you a hint: We include a magic formula that is guaranteed to attract attractive women. If it works for Bruce Campbell, you KNOW it will work for a wargamer, too!

;-)

Arc of Fire for almost of the points. It uses D6 and D10

For rubbing your back ask "CENSURED" ….

Take a look at Over There. The price is right -- you can down load it for free. Does not use hex movement and because there is no physical product delivered, #9 will have to be supplied by yourself.

link

Reviewed at:

link

mjc

CR2 or derivatives- just convert to hexes- say 1 hex =4 inches, from memory its all multiples of 4.

Borrow PBI and use single figures instead of a base=3. Its on squares, and so much oppotunity fire that a move is really broken up. I'd double the number of MG dice though.

Alternatively I will write you a game with ALL 9! Only $600. USD (However most of that cost will be Sherri)

Take a look at Over There.

I have it, it has some cool elements, but it is not exactly what I am looking for.

I think I am going to go with a "heavily modified" Chain Reaction 2.0. I have the free CR2.0 and also the MG42 which is a WWII supplement for CR2.0 but I am leaning towards buying the Nuts! rules as well to be used source material for the changes I plan on making to the CR2.0 system. Is anyone familiar with the two systems and if so what are the major differences? Does Nuts! have specific weapon and vehicle stats or are they pretty generic as in CR2.0? What about OOB's for the major players in WWII? Im just trying to decide if I should picks up a copy of Nuts! too, or just use CR2.0 rules and make the changes I want.

Now that the dust has cleared.
NUTS! is Europe 44.
Russians, Germans, US, Brits.
Lots of vehicles included. One aspect of the vehicle rules is that the crew work as a team and have different reps. Tack Commander, Gunner, Loader, Driver, and Radio Operator if applicable. it really makes a difference and also the differences in crew qualities to be shown.
There's a Battle of the Bulge scenario book coming out shortly. P{aciofic theater as well and early war also.
There's a misconception that CR 2.0 is the basic rules set but it is very outdated and not at all period specific. Still a good set of rules and a free way to see if you like the Reaction system. However, although the mechanics may be similar in each set they are definitely different, not just CR in WW2, or CR in space, or CR does Vietnam.
Hope this makes some sense.
Plus updates to all the rules are free on the Yahoo group and with 2800 members your questions normally get answered within 24 hours.

For more info just go to the group and ask. Nice bunch of people and even if you don't play THW there's still good info to be gained.

link

Hope this helps.

Thanks, you sold me. I do like the CR2.0 system so I think it only makes sense to pick up Nuts! and see what that is all about. It may be exactly what I am looking for (like a lot of people already told me)!

PIQUET Point of Attack/Blitzkrieg has skirmish level built in and can be used with any scale, is not an IGOUGO but is a multi-die system.

here it is:

1-48combat.com

:)

Cheers,

Claudio

We went through a stage of using hexes – don't really know why but it seemed a good idea at the time and we had a shed load of heroscape and also hexon stuff which we had bought.

We just used our favourite rules and spent a tiny bit of time converting the ranges to hexes etc so it shouldn't be an issue.

There are so many decent WWII skirmish rules now that you should go with the one that has got the most of what you want as this will differ from person to person (for me card activation is a no no which stops me playing TwAt and FoB etc but other people love the mechanic etc). For what it is worth I personally play NUTS, Force on Force and an in development set :-)

But to be honest I wouldn't say no to a game of any of the rules mentioned.

Rich

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I ended up buying NUTS! and while I certainly liked some aspects of it, I came to realize that I don't want to control each individual in the vehicle, I want to control a platoon of vehicles so I am looking for a Company level game, not a skirmish game! After a lot of looking around I found Blitzkreig Commanders free "lite" rules. That and the very active community on the website sold me on pre-ordering the BKC II rules which should be hitting the shelves shortly. So, here is the breakdown of what I originally thought I wanted compared to what I eventually decided on. I grade myself as pass/fail for whether I had a clue what I really wanted.

1) 1:1 scale

BKC II can be played with 1 stand = 1 squad/vehicle, so not exactly 1:1, but I like this scale. I will score this one a push.

2) compatible with 20mm/1/72

Ended up going with 15mm/1/100 so I give myself a FAIL.

3) Card based random initiative, no "I go, you go"

BKC has been described as IGOIGOIGOIGO, but is definitely not random like a card based system so again FAIL.

4) Simple, fast playing, yet "Feels" authentic

I think this is a PASS

5) Easy to understand rules, good support

This is a PASS as well.

6) Units stats on individual cards rather than having to consult reams of charts to see what happens every time I shoot.

FAIL, but I don't know what I was thinking here, I prefer a nice army list rather than shuffling cards like I am playing Gin Rummy with my G'Ma.

7) Uses six-sided dice.

PASS baby!

8) Hex based movement and range rather than tape measuring everything.

Nope, another FAIL but I think a conversion is easy enough.

9) Attractive young lady to rub my shoulders while I play.

Wife vetoed this one, so I will have to call this a FAIL

So thanks for helping me find a WWII rule set, despite me not even knowing what I wanted to begin with!

'We Can Be Heroes 2' can do it all, and inside the rules are some pretty pictures of ladies who might rub your back ;-)

tfpgames.com

Regards,

G

Try 1-48 Combat…it's very very funny, easy and fast.
Rules are free:

1-48combat.com/rules.htm

hope you enjoy! ;-)

Been rereading a lot of my skirmish sets sitting on the bookshelf lately … revisited BE World at War and am actually suprised these are not more popular as they give a good feel with pretty simple mechanics … actually very impressed, never going to beat NUTS or obviously my sets for me BUT as a quick pick up club set of rules I am going to introduce them to the guys.

6) Units stats on individual cards rather than having to consult reams of charts to see what happens every time I shoot.

Just an aside here, but my pals and I often use the game charts to make a small reference card for only the equipment used in the game. For example, if the only armored vehicles on the board are T-34/76, Pzkw IIIG, and Pzkw IVG, then we include the stats only for those vehicles on our handwritten card. Saves us referring to the chart during the game, and takes only a little pre-game prep.

We're toying with the idea of having scantily clad women make up the cards to make them more effective.

Jim

What about Final Combat? I'm new to WWII gaming (no kidding considering my screen name) and I would like to get into WWII skirmish games – either with 28mm or 54mm figures.

Final Combat is a very fine game … it is very detailed and games tend to take longer than the 'beer and pretzels' two-three hour mark, especially as you start to play. If you are used to and able to play games around 3-4 hours + and leave a game out they are superb for squad level detail – everything is micro managed in one second blocks – for instance an MG42 on full fire will crank out 22 or so bullets – that is 22 d20 to roll, roll to see if they are on target (using a sliding scale of modifiers – the rules do give you a spreadsheet to work this out with, I kid you not) then see if the on target ones get through any cover and then see where the resulting ones hit and the damage caused. It has been streamlined and is not as tedious as it sounds but be prepared to play a 10 second fire fight for a few hours … I like to play them as a reality check every so often and would play them a lot more if I had the time and space – in 54mm the games look great.

Depending on what rules you are used to 18th C wise you will either love the micro management or hate it … people tend to fall into the either or camp!

If you want something quicker but at squad level try NUTS for platoon (about 30-40 a side) try World at War or Rules of Engagement – above that Arc of Fire are a good set and probably more 'traditional' rules wise.

Probably not helped – but you did ask :-)

I agree with those that recommend Nuts!…Also might be worthwhile to check out Troops, Weapons and Tactics from Too Fat Lardies.

Operation Overlord?
link

1) 1:1 scale – YES

2) compatible with 20mm/1/72 – WRITTEN SPECIFICALLY FOR THEM

3) Card based random initiative, no "I go, you go" – AWESOME ONE AT THAT

4) Simple, fast playing, yet "Feels" authentic – LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE

5) Easy to understand rules, good support – RULES ARE RELATIVELY STRAIGHTFORWARD..SUPPORT IS AWESOME ON FORUM (IT IS A FREE GAME, AFTER ALL…)

6) Units stats on individual cards rather than having to consult reams of charts to see what happens every time I shoot – CARD SUMMARIES AVAILABLE ON FORUM

7) Uses six-sided dice – NOPE. 10 SIDED (percentile)

8) Hex based movement and range rather than tape measuring everything – NICE IDEA…NOT "OUT OF THE BOX" BUT IF YOU BUILT A WARGAMES TABLE WITH 5CM HEXES, SAY, AND DIVIDED RANGES, MOVES ECT…BY 5CM THAT ACHIEVES THE SAME?

9) Attractive young lady to rub my shoulders while I play – ONLY AVAILABLE WITH COMMERCIAL VERSION BOUGHT FROM link

:-)