"Montrose Irish brigade - weapons?" Topic

I have read many books on the Montrose campaign, and have a question. In the battle reports there is no mention of the Irish brigades utilising pikes. Given that most reports are fairly consistent as to numbers involved, does this suggest that in fact the Irish were only musket armed? Previously I have worked on the assumption that they would have been a fairly 'normal' unit, i.e. P:S approx 1:2. Now I am not so sure.

I am finalising these units for a montrose vs. Covenanter series of battles, and any more definite info would be a God send.

thanks in advance.

Its a while since I read about it,but I'm fairly sure the whole unit was primarily armed with muskets. Probably an assortment of other weapons too but I dont think the style of warfare they practised made the pike a useful weapon.

I have my Montrose Irish Brigade as 2 totally musket armed regiments and one pike and musket armed, the pikes are cut down to half-pikes though.

I can't remember the explicit reasons for this, but from the reading I did at the time, it seemed most reasonable. Two main points stick in my head:-

1. the type of country negated the advantages of pikes
3. there was a reference to them having half-pikes in their armoury

hope that helps

Away from my sources – there isa report of a funeral with drums and pikes.

This is a bit of a puzzle-Stuart Reid has argued that they were a conventional pike/shot armed unit, but I've seen good argument that they were not.

The force was raised by Ranald MacDonnell, Marquis of Antrim.

Although Irish with experience in the Confederate armies, ,they were mostly tenants of Antrim. Displaced by the Scots in Ulster and unhappy with the cessation of the Confederate war, I'd say they were redshanks with a grudge.

Whatever their training or experience in the Confederate armies they do not seem to have brought the pike/shot tercio of O'Neill with them to Scotland.Antrim initially raised 1600 men, but could only send 800 due to lack of shipping-maybe the pikemen stayed home?

Once they were in Scotland they appear to have looked and acted the same as the highland MacDonalds (the reference of Spalding to Montrose "This Livetennand wes cled in cot and trewis as the Irishis wes cled. Ilk one had in his cap or bonet ane rip of oatis quhilk was his sign.")

The report of trailing pikes at a funeral was in Aberdeen. No regiment is named, and Montrose had kept the Irish out of the town as the population had threatened to flee if they came back!

Wishart says Montrose.."..placed MacDonald and the Irish in the centre. This was a very prudent disposition of his men, for, had he placed the Irish on the flanks, as they had neither pikes nor swords, they would otherwise have been much exposed to the enemy's horse."

So I'd say-Antrim's landless tenants, overwhelmingly Ulster scots, are released by the Confederates(no doubt they were a drain on resources and a bit of a handful)as mercenaries for Scotland.

Although possibly trained and armed as conventional troops, once in Scotland they join their cousins and prove far more useful as musket/sword/targe armed shock troops.

The conclusion to this one is always the same. There is sparse contemporary evidence either way.

Personally I prefer Reid's interpretation and I have equipped my Irish regiments with both with pike and half-pike, but I can easily leave them off the table if the scenario demands shot alone.

If I want to field Irish as wild islesmen I can use more irregular looking highland units.

Pictures of my Irish are on my blog…

auldearn1645.blogspot.com

Stuart Reid suggests that they had Irish short pikes in his Scots Armies of the 17th Century. Even Reid admits the numbers were low. The brigade was made up of 3 regiments: Alexander MacDonell's, James MacDonell's and Manus O'Cahan's

lovely Blog Walter, good to revisit.

Thanks to everyone. With due deference to Stuart Reid, but I think I will opt for two musket only regiments, and one with short pikes as Rudyard Kitling has done. Very useful, thanks again.

That blog is inspirational stuff, Walter. So much so that my first purchase of ECW figs is in progress at the moment. Like yourself, I'll start with the campaigns in Scotland.