"Optimum - 15mm Napoleonics Basing Size" Topic

Hi all,

just about to rebase my older 15mm Napoleonics and wondered if there was a fairly common basing size/convention thats fairly rule agnostic ( arty, limbers, inf & cav).

Additionaly, for example my French battalions are in companies of 6 or seven figs, i now favour 2 lines of threes and more rectanglur formations ( and ditch the extra figures).

Reason being we havent decided on a common 15mm ruleset and i'll probably be pruning some units off to ebay.

After reviewing lots of rules sets and their basing requirements I settled on using the Napoleon's Battles standard. The reason I settled on this is many rules sets recommend this as an option, or, and thanks to the deities, the rules sets don't set a standard as long as both sides are the same.

In particular the NB standard is recommended or is an option for Napoleon's Battles, Age of Eagles, Shako II and more. This means a unit varies in size from 16 to 32 figs and, given the stand size, it's pretty flexible.

Given that there is no dominent set of Napoleonic Rules I wanted a basing scheme that had flexibility for several rules sets to increase the odds that I'd be able to play against others.

"Given that there is no dominent set of Napoleonic Rules"

Really?

good god, not 15mm nap again, what is graham going to think?

"Given that there is no dominent set of Napoleonic Rules"

Really?

Care to name them then?

Going forward, my new units will be on metal bases using the older Empire system, 3/8 inch width per man and 1/2 inch deep, usually 2 figures per company. Each stand is a company for 1:30 scale, while 1 stand behind another equals a stand for NB or AoE. Depending on the rules played, I mount them on magnetic movement trays of the appropriate size for the maneuver unit. I base the cav 2 figures per 1 inch square.

I think Cold Steel has the right of it.

In the early period of my wargaming I built up a sizeable force based for NB because I used the rules. In the mid 90's I'd had enough of NB and re-based for Empire since I found I preferred battalion level rules. I've now got about 12,000 figures based for Empire.

I'm now looking at ways to use metal and magnetism to provide some flexibility in much the way that Cold Steel suggests. Flexibility is the key as your tastes change.

Jeremy and Connard….maybe I misspoke, but I wrote that there is NOT a dominant set of rules. (Unless you're asking me to list the Napoleonic rules that are NOT dominent :-)

My point was that there is no dominant set of rules, as there are in other eras, that a majority base their figures for. For example, ancients has a DMA/M "standard" that many other rules use by default. We don't have that in Napoleonics….there are multiple standards that appear in various places such as Empire, Napoleon's Battles, or even the "standards" used by the "old school" gamers.

I was just looking for max flexibility based on several relatively popular rules sets.

Jeremy and Connard….maybe I misspoke, but I wrote that there is NOT a dominant set of rules. (Unless you're asking me to list the Napoleonic rules that are NOT dominent :-)

It wasn't a dig at you raylev, but Jeremy with his reply intimated that there are in fact a dominant set of rules.

I merely asked him to state what the 'dominant' set are, and in what part of the world.

FWIW, I agree with you, I can't think of a set that is dominant, that's why I asked the question :)

True there is no SINGLE dominant ruleset, but the "Big Three" use a common basing.

My "Big Three" are Age of Eagles, Napoleon's Battles and Shako. Using these and sabot bases you can do Volley and Bayonet as well.

>>> My "Big Three" are Age of Eagles, Napoleon's Battles and Shako.

Me make all dem base same. Smart feller make all dem same bimeby.

Allen

Or the other big three:

Grand Armée, Empire, and Le Fue Sacré. None of whom use the same basing.

Or the next big three someone else names …

Decide on at least the scale of game you want to play, I think the spirit of Saber6's comment comes down to: most games of relatively the same scale have similar basing. That I'd agree is not always the case but often enough to be helpful.

I base mine for 1:60 scale games. For example Empire, Legacy of Glory, Battles for Empire, Napoleonic Warfare, Garde du Corps all use similar basing sizes, several even use the same base size.

Cheers,

The Bandit

Oh, for comparison sake I spose I can state a couple of the standards:

1:60 commonly uses 3/8" per figure frontage (depth of 1/2")

Quarrie's Rules and Corps d'Armée use 8mm and 7.5mm per figure frontage respectively (you can probably use that fairly interchangeably considering how accurately your stands will be cut there may be 0.5mm variation per figure per base anyway. Both state depth should be the minimal necessary for the figure.

Cheers,

The Bandit

" "Given that there is no dominent set of Napoleonic Rules"

Really?

Care to name them then?"

Seeing as I've been challenged to name them, I'd agree with Comrade Saber6:-
Shako
Age of Eagles
Napoleon's Battles

Perhaps we need a Poll?

Perhaps we need a Poll?

Well for what it's worth we did, sort of

TMP link

Of the three mentioned, none are particularly popular around these parts

And considering that "these parts" are on the WWW, a poll here really wouldn't help prove anything.

Lots of rules are dominant – where you live.

Thing is, geography varies and thus so do popular rules sets. In my old town – Empire V, Napoleonic Command, and Napy's Battles.

In my new town, unknown. But it certainly varies a lot.

Cheers,

The Bandit

14% is the high?

I think that speaks for itself.

Cheers,

The Bandit

Lots of rules are dominant – where you live.

That's what I meant. Apologies for being parochial

Yeah, I understood you correctly, we're in agreement.

Cheers,

The Bandit

Of course, figures based for other rules can (normally) be used for Grande Armee (the 14%) also, by means of sabots.

so the basing requirements for "Age of Eagles, Napoleon's Battles and Shako" are?

See Saber6's post here:

TMP link

To expand:

Four infantry figures, two in each of two ranks, on a 3/4" by 1" deep stand (20mm x 25mm will work). AoE has an option to mount "two-rank" infantry, such as British, on a frontage of 1 1/8".

Two cavalry abreast on a 1" square (or 25mm square) base. NB actually calles for four ifgures, two by two, on a base twice that depth, but the same thing can be accomplished with two square bases.

Artillery:

- AoE: 3/16" frontage per historical gun, 1 1/4" deep.

- Shako suggests that an artillery battery should have the frontage of an infantry battalion or cavalry regiment deployed in line (say 2 1/4" uisng the infantry basing above); depth 1 1/2" or to fit the models.

- NB: I don't rememeber, actually; but it was fairly close to AoE. All three rules sets use differing numbers of crew figures on the battery stand to indicate "weight" and type of artillery.

Allen

"I base mine for 1:60 scale games. For example … Legacy of Glory …"

Good God man! You actually play Legacy of Glory let alone having read and understood them!?!?? :)

Rob,

Not assuming intension on your post and writing this with a big smile I have to ask:

Was that a friendly jab or a statement of camaraderie in that you also like / use them?

Troops of Shewe,

The frontage per figure for Napy's Battles is interestingly the same as for the 1:60 games listed in my post, it is just that those 1:60 games have you mounting figures in a single row where Napy's Battle's is two by two.

In both cases the frontages are 3/8" per figure. They are not directly compatible though because some formations will always look different, in 1:60 games you will have two, three, or four figures across a stand but in one row so a single row of stands, i.e. Line formation is longer than a single row of Napy's Battle stands.

A Compromise:

If you did you figures for 1:60 and based them all two figures to a stand (3/4" by 1/2") you could use them for either, when playing Napy's Battles just pair up stands.

Cheers,

The Bandit

Well, when Games Workshop publishes a Napoleonic rules set we'll have a standard then, don'cha know…..

:-)

3/8 x 1/2 per man. I place mine on 9/8 x 1 with 5-6 castings. This gives me the ability to play Shako, GdB, NB, and AoE.

In hindsight, I like the idea of 3/4 x 1/2 metal stands with 2 fig each. That way with sabot, one could base up for just about any rule set with a mix of 2x1 and 1x2 facings.

Madcam

madcam2us,

Sadly it didn't occur to me until I just typed it above. I've got close to a thousand infantry mounted up on 9/8" by 1/2" stands three across and I don't plan on rebasing them anytime soon. It frankly might be the best plan though, if you play something like Quarrie's rules or something else that cares about companies then two figures @ 1:60 is a company on one stand vs the 3 across method which is a bit skewed. Course, I'm not a fan of that detailed of level games, but the flexibility is nice.

Cheers,

The Bandit

>"two figures @ 1:60 is a company"<

Only if the company has c. 120 men; doubtful in the case of the Brits, at least.

I was thinking French companies and those organized along those lines.

Before the 1808 restructuring company strength was around 75, so 1 figure @ 1:60 or 2 figures @ 1:30 and you'll be slightly under-strength which is arguably realistic.

After the 1808 restructuring company strength was around 150, so 2-3 figures @ 1:60 or 5 figures @ 1:30 and you'll be slightly under-strength or slightly over-strength using 1:60. Once again, under-strength is often realistic.

Cheers,

The Bandit

>"…under-strength is often realistic."<

Definitely. Six companies x 150 men would give a battalion 900 men, which seems about twice the size of actual field strengths of French battalions (in 1815, at least -- and before any sizable combat that year!).