"Battlegroup PanzerGrenadier Rules" Topic

I cant seem to get much info from the official website on the details of the rules, maybe I am not looking in the right place, anyways can anyone give me specific details of game play, basing, ect. Or give me a link on how the rules work. Very interested in these rules.

Have you asked on the discussion forum for these rules:

link

Op. SL

See below for the rules intro.
If you PM me direct on the generaldebrigade.com forum I'll send a few reviews if required.

INTRODUCTION
Battlegroup Panzer-Grenadier rules are designed to cover WW2 engagements ranging from small company combats to Battlegroup level actions. The rules aim to reproduce the challenges presented by tactical combat throughout the 1939-45 war, while also permitting the use of the vast array of vehicles and equipment that supported the infantryman throughout the conflict. The basic game tactical unit is therefore the infantry section or squad supported by armoured fighting vehicles, artillery and ground attack aircraft. The rules are written for use with 15mm or 20mm figures, though should work perfectly well for smaller scales.

The Second World War is certainly one of the most difficult conflicts to reproduce within a set of wargames rules especially if one considers the multiplicity of differing fronts, combatants and equipments used. Due to this the approach of the rules has been two fold.

First simplicity, for without this players become bogged down in a myriad of charts covering every conceivable situation. Thus the rules are not overly concerned as to whether a certain tank must have higher armour factor because it has an extra bolt on its frontal armour or whether a certain gun could penetrate an extra millimetre of armour at such and such a range. After all it's not just good equipment that wins wars, it's good training combined with good command and control that usually triumphs, Germany's victory in France 1940 being one example. However genuine differences between infantry types and armoured vehicles that directly affect the tactical situation are reflected.

Secondly the rules attempt to deliver an effective command and control system based at the tactical level. Orders are issued via the Battlegroup HQ, assisted by Infantry Company and Armoured Regimental command units. Combat groups, usually lead by command units such as platoon or AFV squadron commanders, then execute these orders. The command and control concept is based on the "command die" principle, (so successfully developed by the Wargames Research Group) with national capability, the tactical situation and luck providing each HQ with a finite number of Command Orders that may be issued per game turn. Thus unrealistic situations where every single unit on the wargames table is permitted to move and fire are avoided and the player is forced to make command decisions as to where he will concentrate his effort for that turn.

Hopefully the use of tactical level units combined with a simple yet effective command and control system has produced a set of rules that are playable but also reasonably "realistic". However no game system is perfect and the emphasis of Battlegroup Panzer-Grenadier is on playability, after all wargamers usually prefer to see their miniatures on the table top and actually have something to shoot at during the course of a game!

DB

What are the differences between Battlegroup PG and Rapid Fire?

The Edinburgh Wargames Site Journals have a number of AARs ( edinburghwargames.com ) of BGPG. I have no affiliation to the group but reading them have made me interested in the rule set.

Im not a sockpuppet for Dave Brown, I never even met him, but Ive tried a lot of WW2 rules and once I played Battlegroup PG, Ive stopped looking for WW2 rules sets, I like this one so much.

We play a lot of Russians/Germans in 1941 and these rules do a nice job with allowing the Germans more manuverability than the clumsy Russians.

After a bit you only need to refer to the player reference charts for everything.

Our local group really enjoy it.

Do they compare to any particular rules sets in style or feel?

They compare to none others I can think of. I found it fascinating that some people in other threads have referred to them as a fairly standard ww2 set of rules.
If you just read them, I think that is what you would get as an impression. Playing them gives a different perspective

They are the only set of rules i know of which create uncertaincy within the decision making processes on both sides as part of the game mechanics. It is a rule set which requires a map drawn for at least one side and if you had to say anything about them as to what you play, it would be the phrase "recce is king"

These sound quite intersting. Although I like RF the group I play with are not enamoured so I'm looking for something that plays at a similar level but is fun and quick (3-4hrs).

I get the impression that a BPGR platoon is roughly equivalent to to an RF company so I should be able to use all the toys I have.

Steve P

All,

There be a Battlegroup Panzergrenadier Rules Eastern Front demo game on at the Colours show on Saturday 13th.

Plse drop in and have a chat if you're at the show.

DB

The rules are definately worth a try and give a good feel to what I think WW2 combat was all about.

You have to give serious thought to which parts of your forces you would like to activate as chances are you will not have enough command points to activate everything. It is a real problem with forces like the Russians and you nearly always find yourself reacting to the Germans due to the usually poor command and control aspects of the Russians compared to the Germans. Frustrating if you are the Russian player but it does feel right.

Try them – you will not be disappointed!

This is a 1 tank model=1 tank and 1 inf stand=1 squad/section system? Is this the case? And can you fight large (battalion/ regimental) scale battles with it when you have just 2 people? Please inform.

It looks like the only distributor for this game is in the UK. What about in the US?

1 tank is 2-3 vehicles and an infantry stand is nominally a section making a 3 figure stand represent about 7-10 men. It represents a battlegroup per side and the action from the point of the start of one sides offensive after "preliminary" recconaisance has been completed.

I really like the rules, but the command system does not scale well and starts breaking down when you have more than two or three companies a side.

Easily fixed though.

DH,

The Command System is the main aspect that has been addressed for the 2nd Edition.

We'll be using it at our Colours Demo game if you fancy a preview.

DB

I really like the rules, but the command system does not scale well and starts breaking down when you have more than two or three companies a side.

Easily fixed though.

Derek H – What have you done to fix the command system?

Hi All

For multi commands we split the forces into commands or groups of companies and allocate one PIP dice to each command/group [assuming Version II activation rules are used].

This ensures that a lack of PIP's does not slow down a group that should have been acting. Care must be taken to not have too many PIP dice as this can cause unrealistic flexibility and movement.

Easly determined by a few games.

Derek didnt sort it, i did.

We dont use the second version activation system.

multiple commands have their own integral command and the die roll must be split equally between the commands with the only choice going to the odd remainder. We also tinker with the initiative roll having activation modifiers for size of commands when its a simple smaller game. i.e. the german +2 is only for initiative and not actual command activations as well.