"Waterloo & Long Island Wargames Weekend" Topic

All,

On Saturday 1st November and Sunday 2nd November 2008 Loughton Strike Force will be hosting a weekend's wargaming covering:

Napoleonic – Waterloo – General de Brigade Rules in 15mm.

AWI – Long Island – British Grenadier Rules in 28mm.

The venue will be at the Premier Inn, South Mimms (M25) Nr London and accommodation will be at the venue itself.

Cost will be £60.00 GBP per person (this does not include the accommodation – those who stay over can take advantage of the negotiated cheap room rate of £55.00 GBP inclusive of breakfast).

The authors of both rulesets will be in attendance – probably umpiring!!

There are still spaces available for both games so could all those who wish to partake plse reply on the generaldebrigade.com website General Wargaming thread indicating their preferred game.

DB

For a second I thought that I would be on Long Island that weekend.

60GBP = about $120 USD US. What are you getting for that kind of dough, seeing as it doesn't include accomodations. Do you get fed?

Dave Gamer

You get to play with thousands of exquisitely painted figures on purpose built terrain.

I did Waterloo a few years ago and will be doing the same again – every single unit is represented at a 1:20 scale – over 7,000 figures. Its wargaming on a scale that few ever get to experience.

KM

PS – you also get to see who those that write the rules mercilessly bend them in their favour whenever suits !!!
(Just kidding)

DG,

"What are you getting for that kind of dough."

May I refer you to my initial post and I'll expand a bit for you.

Waterloo will be on a 24-30 foot long purpose built, (and award winning terrain – some may have seen it at Salute 2007 and 2008). There'll also be a table to cover the Plancenoit front. All units will be at 1:20 scale (so averaging 24 to 40 figures per unit) and there'll probably be upwards of 5,000 figures, again many painted to a very high standard.

Long Island will be on a similar sized table using quality 28mm figures and terrain – again all to a high standard.

You'll also have the authors of both rules sets in attendance to provide help and advise throughout.

Refreshments are provided and yes, you do get fed.

If I can help any further plse let me know, or if you can provide any help on how to lower the cost, as the event it isn't intended for profit but for large scale wargaming, I'd love to hear from you.

DB

DB

That's still a steep price!

($$$$$$$)

11th ACR, that price is not steep in the UK. I couldn't get a rugby ticket to a first class match for £60, but I can get two whole days of fantastic gaming. Value is in the eye of the beholder, truly.

Why would any one waist there money on a rugby match?

Sorry but "60GBP = about $120" is steep for even a major gaming convention here in the USA or as you may say the colonies.

Sounds like someone is ether lining there pockets or the Premier Inn is charging way to much for the room/rooms that will be used and someone is just trying to break even.

?

Bear in mind this is for two days' solid gaming, and a Friday evening "get together" and briefing. That works out at about £1.50 GBP an hour for entertainment organised for you by others for no personal reward (even with the average wargames show, the hosting club usually profits). Sadly, in rip-off Britain booking a hall this big (40 feet by 40 feet) in a central location that everyone can get to easily – ie outskirts of London – will never be cheap.

I would love to attend but sadly I am not even in the correct hemisphere.

Take lots of pics – please!

Regards, David
wardepot.blogspot.com
milsims.blogspot.com

Sounds like great value to me! I'd be there in a trice except for the small problem of the travel costs and time from Australia.

Ace is right though – we want pictures and bucket loads of 'em.

PLEASE.

Here's a few pics from a previous game:-

link

The guy who was Kollowrath in that game played a blinder ;-)

60 quid is cheap--Thats only £30.00 GBP a day…£55 at a Premier Inn is also not bad…11 ACR remember this is near London so for a n equivalent maybe look around New York or DC…
Our club MAD wargamers did a big 28mm Long Island game at Triples a few years ago and although it was a good spectacle the battle itself was a bit of a foregone conclusion--Even with some extra reinforcements on the Rebel side….Will it last for 2 days???

11th ACR,

Let me enlighten you further as you appear to be somewhat naive about pricing in the UK.

For the last event we put on at the National Army Museum, again a Sat & Sun game, the standing rate for the hire of the hall for both days was listed at over £3,000.

That'll be over £6,000 of your US dollars.

I hope that helps to clarify the cost of hiring good quality facilities within the UK.

Oh & BTW – the only time we made a profit saw it donated to the Royal British Legion, which, if you are unaware, provides financial & social support to those who have served and are currently serving in the Armed Forces, and their dependants.

DB

I think American wargamers are comparing $120 USD for two days on two games to the spectacle of Historicon that is $35 USD for four days with hundreds of games. And even then there are complainers. So $120 USD is expensive for an American and even a New Yorker.

This event cannot be even remotely compared to Historicon.
A better comparison for Historicon would be Salute.
This is a small club organised event with a maximum number of attendees I would guess of 60-the fixed costs of hiring a large room in this type of venue are simply split between the anticipated number of gamers.
There are no traders to contribute to the costs as at the other 2 mentioned events.
I would also guess that the price is based upon an expectation of less than the maximum possible number of gamers turning up-say 40
If more than 40 attend I would imagine the cost per person will be reduced proportionately.
And from what I have seen there are some very interesting people planning on attending-a chance possibly to banter with some of the best sculptors working today and nag them (in a polite way) to produce even more obscure and hard to get figures.
Count me in

As Jacko says, this event is not a convention, it is a club-organised game. Some gamers are lucky in having a spare room/garage/underground bunker sufficiently large to contain a huge table and put on something like Waterloo or Brandywine. Many of us are less fortunate and the only chance we have of participating in a game of this size is to hire a venue. That means paying money for said hire.

£60.00 GBP is what I spend on a Saturday night in London. For a whole weekend's worth of wargaming, frankly it's a bargain.

60 is nothing, I almost want to buy a planeticket and join the game, but I'm moving and don't have the cash as I had to buy alot of stuff for the new apartment.

hopefully I will get another chance

Salute is not an American convention, so I'm not sure that U.S. wargamers would make that comparison. I'm not saying that I wouldn't spend $120 USD on a weekend, I'm just saying that that's the likely comparison that is to be made. Personally, I would like that kind of atmosphere to play a game and have some food and drink.

To the con goer here, that's pretty expensive. Just look at the Historicon threads and you'll see why.

Dave Brown: I don't think you need to apologize for anything that you are doing with regard to this game. I think that it is a great thing for the hobby that you and your club put all of the work and effort into organizing such a fine wargaming spectacle. I applaud your efforts. If I didn't live across the pond, I would gladly pay the fee to play in your event.

I host a similar SYW game each October that I pay for entirely out of my own pocket. I consider it to be a "party" that I am hosting so I don't charge the players to play in my game. We usually get around 15 to 20 players and I rent out a hall for about $1,000 and I also pay for the food. If I was going to charge a fee to break-even on my expenses, the per capita cost would be similar to your event, from my own experience with such matters.

I do it because it is the only time each year that I can play a game on two 6ft by 30ft tables done in the style of the Wargame Holiday Centre. I have a lot of fun hosting the game and inviting many of my wargaming friends to my "party".

I am amazed at the reaction of some of the Americans to the cost of this event.

As I see it, the fee is mostly contributing to the cost of the venue. So for 2 days hire of a large room beside the M25 this doesn't seem bad.

In any case, £60.00 GBP really is nothing to most Brits. As has already been said, it is less than you would spend on a day out anywhere or maybe the price of a decent -up!

Ditto: amazed its not like its compulsory or anything.

"In any case, £60.00 GBP GBP really is nothing to most Brits."

Well it is to those of us in credit crunch land… but I still think it is worth every penny and I'm sure it will be a spectacular weekend. I for one can't wait to see the photos and here the details of the games.

As long is noone is making a profit it costs what it costs I guess.

As mentioned before I can easily spend $60 USD on a night out in the UK and I dont even live in London.

Blucher: what would be wrong with "making a profit?". The group will probably lose some money, but if they made some extra, I see no problem with that.

The WHC is a for profit company that sells wargame experiences by the weekend or by the week. This event gives people a taste for what it is like to game at the WHC. Good for them.

is that the wargaming center near me fritz

I am greenish with envy.

I don't live in the UK, but I would easily trade my left testicle to be at the long island game. If anyone is interested please contact me off site.

As I am in Northern Ireland, getting across to the venue is difficult. To put things in perspective, if I went out on a full blown drinking session for a weekend, I'd feel relieved if I had change out of £200, never mind taxis, food etc. Then again, this is Northern Ireland and many of us drink like fish.
Seems a fair price to me.

Col ToffeeApple

rather spend my hard earned cash on a rugby game played by real men who don't wear pads…… if I was in the country at the time I would pay the cash just for the Long Island game, seen the Waterloo game very impressive, and If Tarltans Quarter are helping out again nice figures!!! last trip to twickers cost me and the misses around £200pounds, crackin day out lots of beer and plenty of good company, 60 notes for a two day event doing something that one enjoys….. priceless…..

If we didn't elect such lame leaders over here in the US, the cost would be considerably less for us. Blame the Republican Party.

on another point…… my last work related trip to the US cost me around $123.00 USD a night in a Hampton Inn and thats was in Atlanta, so 55 squid for at a Premier Inn is about the same, however its around 1.80 to the pound at the moment……. as for expensive come to Scandanavia where I am at the moment……. it makes good old blighty look well cheap!!!…… nowt wrong with the Republican's especially Mc'Cains running mate…. I will be in the States during the election, can I have a vote please……

as for expensive come to Scandanavia where I am at the moment…….

you lucky bastard, you can go home again, think of us living here, $20 USD for a steak no wargamers, and 25% import tax on everthing you buy outside the country

gun freak just had a beer, pepsi, nachos and a bugers 40Euros (Finland)…… mind you its cheaper than Norway…. where are you? thought there was wargaming here but would only appear to be Warhammer?? better change the thread though……. must admit I am quite interested in the GNW at the moment, but the AWI is my bag baby……. this Long Island game in London sounds good, I have spoken to a couple of people one I believe is going, would like just to be there to watch let alone play….

I live in oslo, there is a lot of warhammer guys out there, but no historic stuff.

I would love to get one of those cheap airline tickets and join the game in London, but I have to big orders on the horizon that's going to take all my not so hard earned money away

I pass through Oslo between February and March each year!!

hey, by feb I should have two "finsihed" opposing forces in 15mm nappy.

and mabye a ok playing force in ACW, I should also have some prety nice 15mm terrain, and ok 28mm stuff.

on my own 6x4 table in my tiny apartment

Its been years since I spent 2 months in Norway living in a hotel above the tree line. All the booze was duty free or in fact free. The locals enjoyed it, as did the guys from Northern Ireland who all drank like fish. I actually painted several battalions of 32 fig Old Glory 15mm Russians
while I was there – which is the miniatures link.

Our dollar is bound to be worth more under Obama, for he has promised us "change"!

I plan to host games of Waterloo, Austerlitz, Leipzig and Borodino in 15mm scale in about three years, with more than 5,000 figures on the table per game, so I was keenly interested in your event. The cost of entry for your game may seem high to us Americans, but as you have indicated one cannot compare apples to oranges. I applaud and encourage your efforts. Have a great game and know that I for one will cheer you on.
By the way, this old white guy will vote for Obama. I don't like the idea of McCain shooting craps with my social security in this crazy stock market.

Caliver Books now have a small supply of Dvds of the Battle of Waterloo Wargame held at the Nationals Army Museum in 2002. so you can see what your in for….

I am in Finland with AWI Brits for company, sat here with a line of redcoats……. well 3 to be exact just waiting for the red to dry!!!! and who said working away from home isn't exciting……. hopefully we will see some images of the two games on the web next week!?…….good luck gents……… and make sure the rebels get a good pasting……. drink your tea, pay your taxes and obey your king, we could always offer Brown, he will be unemployed soon!!

I think there's a little bit of misunderstanding about the relative prices of things in the US and UK. Try not to look at it so much as a straight dollar to sterling conversion as "what one pound will buy you in the UK/ what one dollar will buy you in the US". It's much more of a relative thing. That's something I've learned since moving here.

If you live in the US, then yes – $120 USD (being a straightish conversion of the sterling amount) IS a lot of money, because you can buy an awful lot of things here with $120. USD This is really obvious to anyone from the UK or Eurozone who comes here on vacation and does some elementary arithmitec while converting their euro/sterling. Those folks will say "Jaysuz, X brand costs XXX at home" and buy the stuff up. Hence lots of folks from the UK and Ireland going to New York in the run up to Christmas on shopping trips.

For my (new) US neighbours, a better way to look at the relative cost of the weekend would be to imagine a similar event in a major East Coast city -with an admission price of $60. USD Now imagine getting there from wherever it is you live, feeding yourself, buying gas/petrol, putting yourself up for the weekend, getting the odd cup of coffee, pack of smokes or whatever's your supplementary poison. Then change all those dollar signs to "pounds". See?

Take a look at Col. Tavington's post above:"beer, pepsi, nachos and a bugers 40Euros (Finland)……". Convert that to dollars and it's about $53. USD Yes, to those being paid in US$, that's feckin' outrageous and you'd justifiably feel totally ripped off if you were there on vacation because it costs so much less at home, but that's simply What It Costs Over There. The post re going to see the rugby at Twickenham (that reminds me – must get Setanta Sports) is also worth re-examining: " around £200pounds, crackin day out lots of beer and plenty of good company, 60 notes for a two day event doing something that one enjoys….. priceless…..". How many US folks would spend $200 USD on themselves and another going to see their favourite NFL team play? Don't convert the figure, change the sign.

Abroad, the US$ isn't great – although it's improved considerably in the last 2 months. However, the $ goes much further here than the pound or the euro does at home. Believe me, I lived in Dublin and visited Virginia with the missus for long enough to know how things work in their respective places. Case in point – I didn't buy clothes in Ireland for two years. I bought them all on trips to the US.

Sixty quid in the UK, or 80 Euro in Dublin, is something you'd easily spend on yourself on a Friday night if you're out for a few pints and a bit of half-decent grub because well, that's what it costs to do that there.

My $0.02 USD cents. I'd have done it in Euro, but that'd be $0.03.

Actually, now that I look at Paypal, 60 quid works out to about $106. USD

£60.00 GBP is nothing. I console game for the 360 or ps3 cost almost £50.00 GBP or over 500 NOK so £60.00 GBP for a weekend like that is nothing, atleast for us up here in the cold north

how about this rugby world cup final £350.00 GBP for one ticket in Paris and we bought two, this french dude wanted 400GBP for each ticket….. but he was happy and so were we!!!! was in Westport (Eire) last year, Guiness was good lots of it too nearLy at London prices, Gallowglass is write too I also buy must of my clobber (clothes) on trips to the US, wearing Old Navy dockers at the moment…. Gunfreak….. can't understand how you lot live with the cost of living in Norway, have a buddy near Sandnes, Arvid has a helluva house and lots of remote controlled airplanes……. should by some tanks, dunno how he lives mind you he makes some cracking good port wine….. oh my head!!!! most wargamers in the UK will cough up if it is something worth trekking out for and this is worth it…. like I said wish I could attend as I only live about 50miles away…

I paied over £130.00 GBP for my new sneakers a few weeks ago, I hate buying stuff like that in norway,

but the weired thing is I have no problem spendig £300.00 GBP on minatures, infact I feel good after doing it, but to use money on food and drink or cloths I HATE, thats money I could have spent on MORE MINATURES!!!!!!!!!

MORE MORE MORE, it's like crack it is

yeah I resent having to buy clothes better if we all played wargames naked(more money for the figures), preferred opposition only! please apply here! I just bought a load of Front Rank no problems with that, the kids will just have to go barefoot to school for now…

Colonel, all I have to say is you must have much different wargamers where you live.

We have a thing called NASCAR here in the U.S. You go to a stadium-sized stock-car racetrack in your pickup truck, drink beer and eat barbecue all day with your mates in the parking lot (That's called a "tailgate" party because you lower the tailgate on your truck and sit on it) then you stand in line with 90,000 other fans, then hand over the admission tickets you paid $90 USD each for.
The cars are modified Chevrolet and Ford sedans, though even a cursory inspection will reveal they don't resemble the originals in the least because they have been so heavily modified. They will go 120 mph and faster.
Once inside you sit down and continue to drink beer while you watch the race, which will go on for hours. The track is shaped like an oval, so your head goes around and around and around while you put away beer after beer after beer. Getting dizzy? There is a "no drinking" section in the stadium. It's way high up there in the back of the stadium, and it's real small because anyone who goes to one of these things who doesn't like to drink is missing the point.
One could easily pay $150 USD or more for a typical race.