"Napoleonic Command?" Topic

Can anyone tell me how this ruleset plays?

Looking for the basics--what each unit represents, how command and control is modeled, how fire and melee is resolved, how morale is determined etc.

Thanks to everyone (or anyone!) who replies!

Never heard of it – is it new?

NapNewbie:

First, I've never played 'Napoelonic Command'. If it's the set I'm think of it's several years old and I've read a couple of very good reviews. Suppose to have very good command and control in a unique way.
I searched over the years for a copy but I've never found one.

Hi,
I am your source for Napoleonic Command. The rules were written by Jeff Knudsen. I was the developer.

The game is truly grand tactical in nature. Lots of rules claim this but are not much more than brigade level games that sacrifice too much napoleonic flavor for "speed". I'll stop there.

The game works at small and large troop levels. We once played with around 9 corp on the table (6mm) and it kept moving smoothly and we were almost playing in real time.

Bottom line is that I still have copies of the rules. At $12 USD plus shipping it is a great deal. I had copies on Ebay until just recently. Sorry I missed you.

skyking20

Skyking20,

I am interested in purchasing one copy of the ruleset Napoleonic Command from you. How can I get a hold of you?

Me too – if you have Paypal send an invoice to mark@the-severins.com

Thanks!

NapNewbie,

I've played the game (umpired by Jeff K. who wrote them).

FAQ sorta stuff:
Stands represent large numbers of troops, actual figure count is unimportant.
Fire and melee combat don't actually occur, they are abstracted.
Presence of an officer makes troops feel better not aim straighter.

How it works:
You stack up your forces so as to focus more threat points on the enemy causing both sides to fatigue and ultimately lowering combat effectiveness of each side. Hopefully theirs tire first and thus becoming ineffective, withdraw.

What I liked:
They are mechanically very sound in that a given scenario (these troops confronting those troops in that terrain) results in very historical outcomes.

What I didn't like:
It is a threat and fatigue based system which is neat, however, odd methods of play. What I mean to say is that for my taste it is *too* abstracted, spend the whole game stacking up your forces and then march forward and the enemy fades away – is it accurate? BIG TIME YES. But there is never a cathartic moment, you never say, WOW YES, WE BROKE THROUGH! So that part frustrates me.

The claims about clear play, easy to sustain the play, doesn't get bogged down, large games work well – are all true.

And at $12 USD it ain't bad by any stretch.

Would I choose to play it as my main set? No. Would I enjoy it if guys I knew were playing a game and using those rules? Yes, and I'd show up for it (and I have).

In that way it is sorta like good beer that isn't really your favorite.

Cheers,

The Bandit

I have played all sorts of Napoleonic rules over the years, from simple to complex, battalion to brigade, and NapCom has remained a favorite set of rules.

The salient points are discussed above, in that you maneuver by battalion, but add up Threat and Cohesion points by formation, usually division. Beating a formation's Cohesion by a little with your Threatening units results in the enemy falling back to ease up the Threat, while doubling them (difficult to do) results in unit(s) dispersing and/or retreating. This process is handled simply and quickly, and emphasizes the value of a second line to cover the retreating units without resorting to abstract modifiers.

An added bonus is the unique movement system, which is split into 1) moving more-or-less straight forward on your turn, but 2) changing facing and formation after the enemy moves. This results in a fast movement phase during your turn, sometimes results in that "oops!" moment when you can't react because you failed to change formation previously, but still allows units to react to enemy malingering (form square, etc.). It also means that actual play is very integrated, with few "ho hum" periods of simply watching your opponent – you have to be thinking of how you will react and move.

It is a simple but elegantly put-together set of rules that does what it intends to do very well. It may be the only Napoleonic set that I've played that allows you to play the detail of battalion formations in a meaningful way, but fight large battles with combat based on larger formations.

The only possible weakness in the system was the lack of a Fatigue system other than the removal of whole units, but simple house rules would handle that. I'm not convinced that it would be necessary (despite the fact I have them written up and usually play that way), but the system is so straightforward that little tweaks are easy to experiment with.

I'm very happy to see them for sale again, and highly recommend them! They also wrote a very good ACW set (somewhat more detailed), and were working on a SYW set that looked very interesting … any word on those?

Cheers,

Christopher

PS – slightly contrary to Bandit, I would say that the dramatic "breakthrough" moments are definitely there, but you have to work for them. When they arrive, however, they are big, big moments. For instance, you may have to maneuver and plot and plan, and fall back and try again, to eventually force the enemy battle line to be "doubled" on points, lose a unit or two, and end up retreating during their next turn. That's usually a big moment in itself, but the proper use of a second line can cover it … However, if the line hasn't been covered, and you can hit the retreating line in the rear before they recover (especially if you've saved some squadrons of cavalry for the task!) the retreat can become a rout in very short order, and the resulting gap is usually decisive.

Skyking20:

Please let me know how to contact you and I'll make a purchase.

CATenWolde,

Fair point, someone who I used to game with on occasion and played it regularly summed up his and my own views well, I'm paraphrasing him to make it a bit more to the point:

It seems too much like math, in that given the variables, what you expect to happen, does happen.

Despite that though, it is a personal taste thing and frankly it is a good rules set.

Cheers,

The Bandit

Skyking20. Again, if you let me know how to contact you I'd very much like a set.

Skyking 20 – Me too, if you can post to the UK.

Bandit,

Yes, the "math" feel of it is a possible negative, and strangely I think that it seems more dominant because the rest of the system is not only streamlined enough not to get in the way, but usually connected to the "math" in some way. For instance, when moving you are usually mentally adding up Threat points as you go, either to bolster an attack (and get over the magic doubling threshold) or to shed Threat points if you've been defeated in the previous turn. Making simple Threat measurement sticks (like movement sticks) makes this flow more easily, but I could see the whole process simply being too much counting for some. I think the problem eases as you get used to the system, and learn that you don't have to micro-manage attacks in the traditional way, but it's definitely there.

You also bring up a good point in that the degree of randomness is *very* low. The only variable is a single throw of 2d6 during combat, and you don't add them together for a 2-12 curve, you subtract the lower from the higher for a 0-5 curve very much flattened at the 0-2 range. Given the math of the system, it can be a significant amount (especially if you get the higher numbers), but it's not as dramatic as other systems.

As you say (I think), it's different enough both to be worth looking at, and not to be everyone's cup of tea – but then again that pretty much the only Universal Law of Napoleonic Rules! ;)

Cheers,

Christopher

Sounds very interesting. Please contact me, I'll send the greens!

Has anyone heard from Skyking 20?

Or know who he is? Is so please let him know he has several potential customers waiting to hear from him!

Count me in too… I need to buy this ruleset for friend

I quite fancy these.

skyking you say you are source then give us your contact details ! :0

Well I hope I am not violating any rules here!

Paypal $12 USD + $2 USD shipping US or $9 USD shipping Europe.
The $9 USD shipping is first class international. If you want priority its $12.50 USD for shipping.

Send to Paypal account: lance.king@philips.com

Thanks for the great response! I am biased as the developer and Jeff's friend of 25+ years but it was only these rules that kept me playing Napoleonics. All other rules were just too frustrating.

By the way, hi Chris. It has been a long time!!

skyking20

Another comment to Chris' points. I will include s the "version 2" addendum which contains fatique rules as well as some other minor but positive changes.

skyking20

DONE!

And thank you.

Hi Lance! Yes, it's been a while, and I'm in Helsinki now, so the possibility of another weekend game is unfortunately a bit remote at the moment. ;)

You and Jeff may be amused to discover that I'm introducing NapCom here in Helsinki, after the traditional brigade-unit systems didn't win everyone over. So far so good – we haven't introduced fatigue yet as I'm still on the fence, but we'll be playing more in the Autumn. I just got back from the field season in Greece, so I'm a bit unfocused at the moment.

Also, if anyone wants my playsheets and house rules, just drop me a PM.

Cheers,

Christopher

CATenWolde,

I'm interested in your playsheets and house rules for Napoleonic Command. What is your PM?

Chris,
Actually Helsinki is not as unlikely as you might think. Philips has an MR group in Helsinki which makes coils. I am responsibile for coil/system integration and as that expands I might be sent there. I have been to Holland 6 times over the last 18 months and I did have some free weekends!!!! What was I thinking!?
Lance

would you be willing to sell me a digital copy?

To PM me, just click the "P" button on any of my posts. Include your email address and I'll send my notes along.

Lance – Wouldn't that be something? Drop me a line next time. I tend to bounce back and forth between here and Greece on various field projects, but for most of the academic year I'm teaching and at home base.

Cheers,

Christopher

Sorry, but I don't see a "P" button on your above post…

I love the Napoleonic Command set and it was these rules that got me back into Napoleonic gaming.

Since Jeff Knudsen is now a resident of the Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota to you non-Merkins) I'm lucky enough to game with him using this set of rules on a regular basis.

As written the rules were aimed at a Divisional level game. 2 stands of infantry representing a Battalion or 1 stand of Cavalry a Squadron and 1 gun a battery.

We've been experimenting with a Brigade level game where the basic formations are doubled so 4 stands of figures represents an infantry battalion.

One thing I really like about the rules is that you are concerned with a higher level of command decision – not having to fret about skirmishers or game mechanism like you would in say "Empire".

As Christopher said the random factors are low – dice will not save you if you try a poorly planned attack.

The fatigue system works through the rules – collect enough negative points and you might as well stop and go home because your troops do not have the impetus to carry on.

We out normal scale for playing the rules here is in 10mm – and you can easily fit a Corp sized game onto a 6' by 4' table. Here's an example of one of our efforts:

TMP link

The other thing we do is use the rules for tactical problem solving – none of this "take 600 points from the Approved Army List™ and line up opposite for the slugfest" style of gaming.

The ACW rules are "Rifle Wars" and they too work well – they have slightly different mechanics but a similar feel.

The 7YW rules are undergoing play testing at the moment.

I'm really keen on this set of rules – but I acknowledge that like any set they are not to everyone's taste. I would, however, encourage you to get a copy and try them out.

Hope this helps.

Elliott

Elliot,

Thank you for the great info and battle report. Are the ACW rules available yet? If so,where can I get them? When will the SYW version be available? Do you have a set time and place you play in the Twin Cities? I am close enough where I might be interested in seeing a game played.

Thanks again.

Lance:

Just sent payment. Hope to get them soon.
This sounds like a 'rebirth' for 'Napoleonic Command'.
Dale Williams

Okay, for those having trouble with the PM process here, or who sent a PM without including their email … send me an email at: christopher (at) tenwolde (dot) us

NapNewbie – to answer your questions:

Contact Skykink for the Rifle Wars rules – Crusader Gamers were based in Cincinnati OH and he's over there.

The publication date for the 7YW set is currently unknow – they are being play tested at present and use slightly different procedures to the other 2 sets of rules.

Next Twin Cities game, write to me at

elliottwjames@comcast.net

It probably will not be until some time in the fall based on various peoples schedules.

Hope this helps.

Hi guys,
I have been away on a mini vacation.Thanks to those who have already sent their money via Paypal!

Here are your options.

A. I will mail you the original bound Napcom rules along with a print out (not bound) of the 2nd edition playtest rules. Total cost including postage $15. USD

B. I will email you the 2nd edition playtest rules only.You can have this in doc or pdf format. Total cost $12. USD

If you have already sent you money and want opotion B just let me know and I will refund the $3. USD Those who want Rifle Wars as well must stick with option A.

Please let me know which option you prefer. Thanks again for your great response!

skyking20

Sorry error on previous post. Option A total is $14. USD $2 USD refund for option B if you have already sent $$

skyking20

Hi again,
All of the rule sets are on their way. You should have them before the weekend. Thanks for your support!
skyking20

I received my copy from Skyking20. If you go to the 'Napoleonic Discussion' board, you will see some questions I posted about the game.

DaleWill

Skyking20
did you receive my paypal payment for the bound version? I did not receive it yet. Just checking just in case my Paypal notice got stopped by spam filters.
Andrea

ganeshagames.blogspot.com

Yes it has been sent. IIRC I sent it last Saturday. It was sent priority flat rate so it should arrive quickly.
Lance

skyking did you send my copy?

I sent payement direct via paypal and money did go through.

hi can anyone help me contact skyking?

I have just received my copy. Thanks, they look good on a first read
Andrea

blucher,

I dropped him a note for you.
You should be hearing from him soon.

still no reply :(

I didnt care for them.

Not to everyone's taste, I know; but thanks for trying them out.

When designing them, my sole purpose was to emphasize the aspects of Napoleonic warfare that I thought were most important, and therefore most interesting. Basically, I designed the game that I wanted to play, while stubbornly and infuriatingly resisting every attempt by the developer to make them commercially viable or broadly appealing.

To this day, I'm still mildly shocked when anybody else enjoys them.

What are you doing posting here? Far as I know, Von Steuben's Blue Book ain't done yet--back to the salt mines! (wap wap) :-)

Ouch!

Actually, Ken, it is . . . pictures of one of the playtests are right here

link

Big 50-60 figure battalions, lots of dice, very Old School.

And if you want to try it out in person, grab another one of those sorry Clevelanders and meet me at the SYWA con this year. No excuses. First pint of Murphy's at the Fiddler's Hearth is on me.

Hi,

Just come across this thread.
Anyone know if the rules are still available?

Regards
john

The first edition is out of print, although it's possible there are stray copies here and there.

The second edition is currently being edited and having artwork/photographs added. It will be available as a pdf as soon as I'm completely happy with the results (sorry, no dates, no promises.)

Regards,

Jeff

Someone just sent me some funds via paypal for the rules. As Jeff has stated there is a second edition coming. I do not have any extra copies of the original left. So I will be refunding the funds I received and any others that get sent to me.

I am sure that Jeff will let everyone know when the second edition is ready (me first of course!!). All orders can be placed at Jeff's website.

Lance