"Suggestions wanted to help make the dream happen" Topic

I think that I've finally hit upon what I want out of Napoleonic Wargaming but I could use some suggestions to help in making it all happen.

About a year ago, I 'got back into' Napoleonic Wargaming after a hiatus of about a decade. I had kept some 1/72 plastic figures, so I painted and based those and played a few games to Bruce Quarrie's rules. Although fun, it wasn't really what I was after. I became dissatisfied with both rules (too complicated to administer and still maintain the flow) and the figures (the numerous poses, the incomplete ranges, the compatibility problems, the occasionally poor sculpting). I looked around the 'net and wondered if 6mm might hold the answer – easy to paint and relatively cheap, as well as addressing the aforementioned problems with the 1/72 figures. I also became aware that some rule sets had been published that were similar in concept to the Shako I 'big battle' rules and H Whitehouse's 'Old Trousers' rules – abstracting more of the lower tactical levels in order to speed play, concentrate on the decisions normally made by real Napoleonic Generals and create a more atmospheric game by reducing in-game administration. Over the last year I have built up 6mm Baccus French and Allied armies for the Peninsular War and played games of FPGA, Polemos and the aforementioned 'Old Trousers'. It has been fun – I've been pleased with the results of my distinctly average painting upon the Baccus figures and with the speed and playability of the rule sets.

However, I have become aware that – for me – this combination of rules and figures isn't the ideal.

With regard to the rule sets, although I appreciate the clear, concise mechanics and the speed of play (and with some reservation I can live happily with without formation changes), I like casualty removal and the direct relation of figure to men. This impacts on the models I use, because using 6mm figures with casualty removal systems is fiddly – and anything fiddly, whether in relation to rules or models, kills the atmosphere (at least, it does for me).

I think that I'm going to have to write my own rules, or adapt an existing set, and I'm happy to do either – I'm going to be playing solo, at least in the near future. I'm also experimenting with the 6mm figures to see if I can mitigate the fiddliness. But I would like some recommendations for figures, bearing in mind the following:

The figure: man ratio will probably be around 1:100.

Expense is an issue. Vitoria for instance had around 150,000 combatants. A 6mm army of say 3,000 figures to represent that isn't too expensive for me, neither is 1,500 1/72 plastic figures. 1,500 Perry Miniatures is way outside my league – although I appreciate I will be paying more.

Space is an issue. I've got a 10'x5' table which isn't too bad, but unless the figure: man ratio is much higher, 28mm figures are probably just too big. A lot of the demonstration games that I have seen featuring (invariably) beautifully painted 28mm Napoleonics have been spoiled for me because the game just looks too crowded.

I like 'toy soldier' uniformity.

I prefer thinner, well-proportioned figures to the larger, exaggerated ones.

I'm not too concerned with animation.

I'm no great shakes as a painter – I don't need the detail that the talented military modellers require.

I need complete ranges (or ranges compatible with others) for all of the major combatants – I envisage creating armies to cover most of the Napoleonic Wars in due course.

They have to be available at a UK retailer or at UK wargames shows.

I don't really know very much about 10 – 25mm ranges and my requirements seem to point me in this direction. Has anyone got any pointers?

Thanks in advance

Perry Miniatures and Victrix are going to be releasing plastic Napoleonics this year, both fitting your slimmer more proportional requirement and cost issue. You will have to wait for "full ranges" but you have a LOT of painting ahead of you so you are not going to be short of figures to paint!

Well the first step must be taken before a journey can begin. You have done that.

Now you need to better define your objectives. What I see is a lot of ambivalent rambling.

What is your most important issue right now?

Probably Rules Huh?

So forget the figure discussion until you find a system that meets your needs. Go to a bunch of conventions and try different rules. Failing that make a list of all the rules you can identify and then talk to people that play them -- join Yahoo groups.

May I suggest you start with Age of Eagles -- Napoleonic Fire and Fury. These rules seem to be closest to what you are looking for.

mjc

You might like DBN, the Napoleonic equivalent of DBA. The figure scale is fairly flexible, even generally speaking, it isn't 1:100, especially for larger battles. (Often, one base/element represents a brigade, roughly speaking.) DBN might not be what you're looking for, but as far as expense and playing area are concerned, I doubt you would be disappointed. You could almost do Leipzig (the biggest DBN scenario) on your gaming table.

Here's a link for you. Please note that there are some free downloads at this site, although the rules and some other scenarios aren't free:

dbnwargaming.co.uk

I'm collecting 6mm Adler figures for DBN myself. I really like the idea of having to paint only moderate amounts of figures and being able to play a variety of sizes of games.

In all truthfulness, I'm not sure this is what you're looking for in a set of rules. I really don't mean to sound like a sock puppet, but personally speaking, DBN has really caught my attention.

We use Age of Eagles, but Volley and Bayonet are not a bad set for big battles, albeit as I recall out of print – also, one of the local groups gave the Baccus Polemos rules a decent review

I agree with mjc that you should put the discussion of figures aside until you have decided on a rule set.

If you are going to go ahead and write your own rules you can still use 6mm figures without them being fiddly. Just have your units comprise a number of bases and remove one of the bases which you can make large enough. You could have two strips of infantry on one base of 20+mm by 16mm+ (or something like 1 inch by 3/4 inch which is a common base size). But this is probably going to violate your requirement for a 1:100 figure to troop ratio.

Otherwise, if you want to have a 1:100 ratio for figures, and casualty removal then 6mm and 10mm figures which come in strips of four are going to be a problem for you. I have chopped up these strips and found it a complete pain.

You mentioned 1500 plastic 1-72nd figures being too expensive for you. I think you are going to have a budget problem if you want to collect the main armies for the Napoleonic wars. Very few people want to have such a large collection. Most people are OK with putting on small battles. If you want to be able to put on large battles on a budget you are going to have to make some compromises. Do you want to say something about what your budget might be so that we can make concrete suggestions?

I would stay away from the new 28mm plastic Naps if I were you because they are going to take a long time to assemble and paint. They are very detailed and for some you even have to stick on a back pack which comes separately.

Sorry if I haven't understood your requirements correctly.

All the best with your project!

Neil
reinforcementsbypost.com

I think you will like Irregular's 6mm.
I am UK based and you can buy men, rules, terrain, scenery and paints etc etc from me:

angelbarracks.co.uk

Oh and the A.G.S. rules I sell are at a ratio of 1:1 so they may be easy to adapt.
I too like the scales and feel of Napoleonic games that you do.

Michael.

Have you tried Carnage and Glory computer aided rules?
You can still use your 6mm figures. All of the record keeping is done by the PC and you track every single casualty for the unit. You do not remove figures but you can remove bases. The upside for you is that it is not very expensive to get into as you already have the figures just buy the software and play the game.

Thank you all for your replies – all very helpful to me.

Some individual responses:

Adster:

I think that the physical size of the bases of 28mm figures rules them out. Nice looking figures though.

quidveritas:

Sorry for rambling, I'll try and put it more concisely for you:

I want a rule set with the following features:

1:100 figure scale
Casualty removal
Simple and fast mechanics

I don't think any such rules set exists but let me know if I'm wrong. I'm already aware of all the popular element/base big battle Napoleonic rules.

I would like figures matching the following criteria:

Figures to cost no more than 50p each.
Figures to be 15mm, 20mm or true 25mm
Figures to be available individually or in packs with similar poses.
Figures preferably to be in the traditional 'advancing' pose
Figures to be thin and well proportioned rather than large and exaggerated.
Detail and animation aren't too important.
Complete ranges of all the major combatants to be available
Ranges to be available from a UK retailer, preferably at shows.
Does that provide more focus?

jeigheff:
I'll bear DBN in mind if I get tired of Polemos

Frederick:
AofE sounds like a good rule set – I'll have a look at that too if I get tired of Polemos.

Nick:
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll sit down and work out what using 6mm strips in that way will mean in terms of figure ratios and ground scales and whatnot. I was trying to say in my original post that 1500-strong 1/72 plastic armies would be in budget for me, 1500-strong Perry Napoleonic armies aren't. I guess I spend £300.00 GBP a year or so on games and modelling stuff.

Michael:
If I stick with 6mm I'll be trying some Irregular miniatures. I'll give some thought to the AGS rules, I hadn't considered them. Good website too.

Grenadier 1:
I hadn't considered computer rules – I haven't played any since Eaglebearer. Thanks for reminding me, I'll give them some thought too.

Regards

Hello Whirlwind,

While not a set of miniatures rules, Clash of Arms uses a set of rules for their Napoleonic era board games (the La Battaille series). The figure scale is 1:100 for infantry, and 1:50 for cavalry. Casualties are recorded using numbered strength markers. Granted, this is a boardgame using counters with individual strength values (each counter represents a battery, battalion, regiment, although some companies and squadrons are used as well).

I have adapted the rules for my own use with miniatures. Each of my stands uses an arbitrary number of figures (roughly a 1:120 scale, so 6 figures for French, 5 for British, etc.) The actual strength is noted on the bottom of the base. I continue to use the numbered markers for casulaty counts (aesthetics be damned!!!) and the casualty charts of the game system (each hit removes one SP). It works well, lends itself nicely to larger battles, makes use of my existing troops without the need to expand (I play in 15mm) and may work for you too!!!

As far as figure availability is concerned, given your needs for uniformity and depth of range, you really can not go wrong with Minifigs. MF 15's are universally available, as complete as can be, and relatively inexpensive.

It would probably help if I included the link: clashofarms.com/index.html

The name of the rules system is Regulations of the Year XXII
and it is located in the games section under Tactical Napoleonic

If you have any questions Whirlwind, please drop me a line at:

mail@angelbarracks.co.uk