"SYW - 10mm vs 15mm ?" Topic

Folks

am toying with venturing into SYW. I've looked at the available ranges and I'm tempted to do it in 10mm with Pendraken figs. I'll order a batch to look at them soon.

Is there any advice people could offer about what's available in 15mm ? I'm not sure I can face painting two armies of Old Glory (15mm) figs because of the style of them. What about the Eureka range ? Are they better ? Up to the quality of AB Napoleonics… ?

And what about the Old Glory 10mm ranges ? Any good ?

Lastly, what kind of unit sizes do you favour in 10mm ? Big battalion 40-ish figs or can smaller units still look good ?

All advice gratefully received :-)

Can't say I've seen a 15mm line that I like for SYW.
I'd go with 10mm if starting new.

My current 10mm armies are not big battalions (30 figures), where my 25mm are big battalions (60 figures)…

Anyhow, I like the big battalion look and feel and will likely grow my 10mm armies to big battalion status.

If you have the room to play and the time/patience to build/paint big battalions you should go that route (in my opinion).

I'm doing SYW in 10mm because I really like the Pendraken figures. Battalions vary between 30 – 40 figures and look good painted up – as do the cavalry regiments (same size). Can't speak for Eureka, but if I were doing it in 15mm I'd go for Freikorps.

HF
it's an odd thing but I have quite a few 28mm Hessian and French battalions from my AWI collection and thought of starting with them. (they are battalions in the 18-30 fig range).
However I've come to the view that the only reason to do SYW is to recreate some of those epic Frederick the Great battles or at least to recreate the main part of them. If I want to do battles with 12-25 battalions per side, say, I just dont think it's possible with 28mm. So I looked smaller :-)
It seems to me that 10mm units in the 20-40 fig range might make such battles possible on the size of table I have. 15mm might also be possible, but with slightly smaller units.
EC

I have 15mm (mostly Old Glory) and if I started now I would do either 10mm or 28mm- 15mm still have all the detail to paint so 28mm doesn't take much longer to finish, and 10mm provides a much more linear look. Once I finish off the last few SYW units I have, my next project will be either 10mm WSS (80 figures per battalion in 2 lines really starts to capture the right look) or 28mm GNW (nice Musketeer Miniatures figures that paint quickly and provide that 'Charge' look)

Rich

One of the nice things about 10mm is that one can 'go' big or 'go' small and still have it look right.

In the early days (like 30 years ago) we went with 10mm for Napoleonic so we could play in a small space (3' square card table).

Today, I like 10mm because it lets me do big battles with lots of figures (I'm lucky enough to have a fairly large table).

You will find that battalions of 20 to 40 figures will allow for some big battles and will look good too.

John, Rich, HF

I'm interested in how much work these 10mm Pendraken are to paint ?
Rich – I take your point about 15mm. I have painted literally thousands of 15/18mm Napoleonics and I agree, they can be almost as much work as a 28mm. I don't want to do 10mm if they are as much work as 15mm.
Looking at the Pendraken website though I do get the feeling there is quite alot of detail on those figs and wonder whether one would end up spending a long time on them in order to try and do them justice…
EC

I cannot comment to much on the painting of Pendraken, as I've not painted very many of then – some, but not 100's.

The Pendraken do have a bit of detail, but you can ignore some of it – really depends on how you paint and what you like. They can paint quickly, but again depends on your technique and style.

Most of my 10mm are the figures we produce, and are not highly detailed figures (designed 30 plus years ago and designed for fast painting), so they are faster to paint. Mot of my 10mm painting has been done using a technique similar to the one presented in this article: link

Anyhow, get your hands on some samples and then you can decide how much work they will be for you to paint.

I love 10mm, I have a huge collection of ACW figs and have just started SYW, they look great on 2 inch basing for Might and Reason. I am using a combination of Old Glory (OG)10mm and Pendraken. OG come 5 to a stand and two stands abreast equal almost 2" I am in the U.S. so it is a bit expensive for me to get my hands on Pendraken but they are great and I order their NCOs and Generals to flesh out the units. OG and Pendraken are fairly easy to paint. I use a black basecoat, drybrush the entire figure with a dark brown, block in the base coat and add one highlight, they look great en mass and very quick to paint up. I scaled minifigs with the other lines and they do not match up quite as well.

Being a big proponent for 10mm anythiung, I find myself recommending 15mm for this period. Why? Because the figures I use look better with less effort.

I have some Pendraken 10mm SYW. They are fine for their scale. Your issue about painting is a personal one as each of us decide for ourselves at what point a figure is ready for the table. No right nor wrong views, only yours. If you approach painting 15mm and smaller figures as if they were 28mm, you are creating some big problems for yourself.(ie: foolish to do eyeballs, intricate shading/highlighting, wanting 47 different poses in a unit of 36, etc.)

My interest in 15mm SYW has been rekindled becuase we now have 58 new additions to our range to get molded up (ie: more poses (All major troop types will have M/A and Advancing available,true Hungarians, more Russians, NCO's with staffs, more selections for light troops, more hussar types, etc.) In 10mm SYW, you only have 3 or so companies to choose from. In 15mm, that availability list is much bigger and more complete.

I do look forward`to the day when there is more choice out for 10mm SYW, but until then, I'm sticking with 15's.

Best,
Tom Dye
GFI

My SYW are all old-timey 25/28mm, which look good individually and now (after 15 years) look good en masse, but it did take about 15 years to get enough painted to get a "massed of bayonets" look

If I were starting again, 10 or 15 mm – while there are lots more 15 mm available, the 10s that I have seen look pretty good

Tom – well now you've given your range a shameless plug :-) you might as well put a link in to your SYW catalogue page…

EC,

Unfortunately I've mostly painted Old Glory's 10mm lines, so I can't say for certain with Pendraken. I would guess they're 2-3 times as fast to paint- I would say a unit of 80 10mm took as long as 24 15mm.

Best way is to buy a couple of packs and try.

Rich

I'm doing 10mm (mostly Pendraken for my SYW armies that I am building for Might & Reason). I played in a SYW game at the Skirmish 08 Game Day in Dallas a few weeks ago that used 6mm figures and I really liked the mass effect. If I wasn't already heavily committed to 10mm, I would give 6mm some serious consideration.

Dave

I'm basically a 15mm gamer and that is the scale of my 7YW armies.

I've recently built up FPW armies in 10mm using mainly Pendraken and basing 7 figures to a base where I might have based 3 or 4 15s and play hem to 15mm rules. I found them easier to paint than I expected and they look good in mass.

Clearly I haven't looked at 7YW castings but the quality of the penD FPW is excellent.

Tom, when will the new additions be available? I'm also interested in getting into this period after playing Might & Reason at Skirmish 08, but am torn as to what scale to use, 6mm, 10mm, or 15mm. 15mm seems to be the most complete as far as troops & troop-type. Yet, I would like to have a battalion look to the stands, not just 4 or 6 figures.

15mm is a fine scale and no arguement that there are a lot more unit types represented. However, as long as the basic unit types are there the smaller scales tend to be fine since Friekorps and other small detachments that tend to have distinctive uniforms don't tend to be represented on a stand that represents a brigade rather than a battalion or company. If I were playing a rules set where the unit of manuever was the battalion, I'd go 15mm. For larger scale games like V&B or M&R I would go 10mm or 6mm.

Dave

My crew has a number of 15mm SYW armies, mostly Minifigs, a good number of OG and some Freikorps.

I find Minifigs a lot easier to paint than Old Glory, and they are slimmer, more anatomically correct. The downside is they have less figure variation but I don't find that a problem in this period. They are packed with officers and such for 12 figures units, but you can also buy packs with all ranke-and-file should you desire bigger units.

Eureka 18mm prussians are fantastic loads of character.

I do like 10mm though for the mass effect. Actually I like all scales. Really there just isnt a right or wrong answer. Youll probably find 15mm more popular but 10mm ranges are growing.

good luck!

Zabloga,

Just curious, what rules are you planning on using for your 10mm WSS? I'm wanting to know as this is a period I am interested in getting into as well. I do have Might and Reason and a copy of their WSS rules, but am looking for a batallion level set of rules as well for smaller battles.

Thanks
Wiley

I agree with Blucher. There is no "right or wrong" scale. It is a matter of personal preference. An additional consideration might be what your potential opponents are happy with as well.

That said, I prefer 15mm for this period. It is a time of cuffs, lace and wigs. Reducing the scale reduces their appeal; at least for my eyes.

28mm would be ideal but the required playing area for the size of games my group plays rules them out.

My 2 cents.

ElaineP: The Prussian Musketeers M/A are ready now, but I haven't assigned a number, yet. You can order them in the remarks block or via email. Be sure to tell Ted I told you you could order them. I will get more into molds upon my return in a week.

The range is listed on the site: minifigs.com I would have posted a direct link but my laptop will not allow me to minimize just the TMP…it minimizes the whole internet connection….bummer!

Best,
Tom Dye
GFI

Iron Dog,

I've spent a lot of time looking at rules for WoSS, and my vote for battalion level rules would go to either Ga Pa or Muskets and Lace (a free download from the musketsandlace yahoo group). M&L is simpler, gives a quicker game and is more traditional, Ga Pa gives an excellent feel for the period and has some very elegant mechanisms – and a superb book of army lists.

Eclaireur,

Most of my armies are 15mm. I have really big armies for the WoSS in 15mm, which compare pretty well for uniforms with SYW. I find that I can paint four 10mm figures to a good standard in the time it takes me to paint one 15mm. I've found that it pays to think about what effect you want and the quickest way of achieving it. I'm careful about the primer colour I use, and use a lot of ink washes and drybrushing.

Incidentally, are you going for company loyalty and using Die Kriegskunst? ;)

Well you probably don't want to hear this but…

Just recently started collecting for SYW.
I chose to go with Minden 28mil.
You should take a look at them before you buy any figures for this period.

I think if I wasn't going "big" with 28mil I'd go small with 6mil ( Baccus ) and have large numbers of figures per battalion.

John W,
yes, I think I'll go for Die Kriegkunst if I do the project. Are you in UK ? If yes, maybe get in touch via the GdB site and we can share ideas further. Have given much thought over weekend to frontages, troop ratios, table size and …cost ! See below.
EC

Mr. Dye,

I am very interested in the MA 15mm Austrian SYW figs, Please post again when they are available.

thanks,

Folks,
thank you all for your input above – most interesting to hear of your experiences. Everybody has their own take and view about what is best, no problem with that ! But what's interesting is what comes through people's different experiences…

1. A 20 fig 28mm unit occupies the same frontage as a 40 fig 15mm unit (about 180mm or 7 ins in both cases, with the 28mm figs based for British Grenadier and 15mm based for GdB in my collection)occupies the same frontage as a 70-80 man unit of 6mm troops. 10mm seems to fall roughly between 6 and 15mm.

2. Many of us share the ambition to put units comprising more figs on table – but if we obey our instinct to double as we shift from 28mm to 15mm and then again down to the smaller sizes, we will not really get any more units on the table ! Now that might not be an ambition for the rest of you, but if I shift down, I want more units on table ! True the smaller scales are less deep, but the frontage issue tends to be the more pressing one, if one doesn't have a 12ft table to play with…

3. My instinct tells me that 10mm units at 1:20 are a good trade off – giving infantry units of 24-48 on the table. However the saving in frontage terms will not be huge compared to 15mm (maybe 1/3rd ?)

4. If cost is a factor, the steps between scales are clearly more meaningful. Real nice 15mm figs like the Eureka ones are 40p a pop in the UK are about 1/4 the price of really nice 28mm ones but four times the 10p for Pendraken 10mm. Even OG 15 soldiers are about 15p/30c each if bought in the US.

Anyway, all very interesting. I have ordered some Pendraken figs and will be looking in some further detail at the frontage issue before opting one way or the other…

EC

I'm sorry to resurrect this thread but I wondered what peoples views are now? Is there a better range for doing 10mm? I would be looking at doing Die Kriegskunst.

You can play Seven Years with most rulesets quite happily in 10mm, 15mm, 20mm and 28mm. There are good manufacturers for all out there in these scales. I have collected Koenig Krieg armies (naturally as the owner of the wargame Koenig Krieg I play this rule set) in all these scales. In 10mm I had a Bavarian, Piedmont, British, Russian and Prussian army using Pendraken figures. In 15mm I have mostly gone for 15mm Old Glory and Eureka SYW, as well as some figures from our niche 15mm SYW range which we have recently sold onto Caliver Games, in 20mm I have a French and Saxon army using Outland Games miniatures and in 28mm I have a Hanoverian army using Siege Works very own range.

I hope you find a scale that suits you best. Good Luck!

What scale are Koenig Kreig in?

My vote is for 10mm or 6mm.

15mm is nice to play WWII tactic, but if you like painting, do it with 28mm

10mm is nice to play battles and they look ok on the table.

15mm are near as hard to paint as 28mm in Napps and SYW, but they look as 10mm do on the table!

Go for those Pendrakens!…and play Tod Kershner´s "Warfare in the Age of the Reason"…and post pics!

Funny, DdM, I see 10mm as being as hard to paint as 15mm, but not looking as good on the table…

Just goes to show, it is all in the perception of the gamer…

I still like 15mm Minifigs. Look good and easy to paint. I tried the Eureka 18mm, OG15s and Essex. None were as much pleasure to paint as the Minifigs…

I love Pendraken 10mm Naps, but I have to say their SYW infantry don't do much for me. I started a collection with them and lost interest pretty quickly and sold them.

Minifigs 15 for SYW for me.