"Dutchy of Warsaw" Topic

I have tow questions I want to make sure of

1 – the Vistula Legion were made from the 4th & 7th & 9th Polish Line Regts ?? Correct ? Or were they seperate Regts ?

2 – I read they were wearing French Uniforms in Spain and when the returned to go and Fight in Russia ……. Would this have been the Bardin Uniform ?

1 ) The Vistula Legion had at it's largest size four infantry regiments and two cavalry regiments.

The Vistula Legion was formed in 1807 in Silesia from the remnants of the Danube Legion, at that time in Neopolitan service. The new Legion ( currently titled the Polish-Italian Legion ) consisted of three infantry regiments and one cavalry regiment. They were formally taken into French service on 21 February, 1808, and renamed the "Vistula Legion" on March 31st.

The Vistula Legion was committed to the Spanish war. It did not usually serve as a legion, instead each infantry regiment was usually brigades with a French infantry regiment. The infantry served under Lannes at Saragossa, and then were part of Suchet's army in 1811. The 1st Lancer regiment did not serve with the infantry after Saragossa – in 1811 it was part of Soult's forces in Andalucia and fought at Albuera with distinction.

A 4th infantry regiment was raised from Austrian prisoners in 1809. Originally an entire 2nd Legion was hoped for, but this didn't pan out. A second lancer regiment was raised on 7 February, 1811.

In June 1811 the two lancer regiments were organizationaly transferred from the Legion to the new French Lancer arm, becoming the 7th and 8th Regiments of Chevauleger-lanciers. In 1812, each of the four infantry regiments supposedly raised a third battalion and they were organized as a division under GdD Claparede. The 4th regiment remained in Spain, and the newly raised 3rd Battalions served on the lines of communication. Thus, the Vistula Legion in the Main Army was organized into a single brigade under GdB Chlopicki.

The survivors were formed into the Vistula Regiment in 1813.

The Vistula Legion was not part of the Army of the Duchy of Warsaw until at least 1813 – and perhaps not even then. Before then, it was part of the French Army.

The Polish 4th, 7th and 9th Infantry Regiments formed a brigade in the 28th Division of IX Corps in 1812. The brigade was commanded by GdB Ouviller. These three Polish regiments had been serving in the Peninsula, and had been clothed out of French stocks.

2 ) No, next to nobody in 1812 wore the Bardin uniform. It had just been approved for production, but quartermasters use up the old stocks first. The 4th, 7th and 9th Polish Regiments wore the 1808-era French infantry uniform. Thus, with the exception of their silver eagles and perhaps their sappers and tetes de colone, the 4th, 7th and 9th Polish Regiments looked exactly like French regiments.

The Vistula Legion wore their distinctive blue uniform faced yellow throughout their Peninsular and Russian Service. Uniform plates for the Vistula Legion are available at Histofig.com

The Vistula legion were Poles in the French army, they never were part of The Duchy of Warsaw. The Dutchy troops you mention were sent to Spain but as allies ie nothing to do with the legion. They adopted French style uniforms when in Spain as their own wore out.

Thank you for clearing that up for me guys

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"2) No, next to nobody in 1812 wore the Bardin uniform. It had just been approved for production, but quartermasters use up the old stocks first. The 4th, 7th and 9th Polish Regiments wore the 1808-era French infantry uniform. Thus, with the exception of their silver eagles and perhaps their sappers and tetes de colone, the 4th, 7th and 9th Polish Regiments looked exactly like French regiments."

Now now, this is not completely accurate. These 3 regiments arrived to their new depots in France (Sedan, I think) already partially equipped and uniformed in Poland (err… Duchy of Warsaw). While they probably wore French headgear, and possibly the cut of the uniforms might also have been french (although some people still believe their uniforms were made to polish "cut", which is pretty similar to Bardin's uniforms at first sight), they surely retained their facing colours: yellow for 4th, red for 7th and white for 9th. They kept these colours even after reform of 1810, when all facings in Duchy of Warsaw army were unified (white, with red cuffs).

The Vistula Legion was never the part of Duchy of Warsaw army, and actually it was partially made of German volunteers (from areas of old Polish Kingdom).

Years ago I did some Staddens for my 30mm French in Spain. In the 1970's we have very few options in doing our figures. Gerry Embleton's paintings in a book on the Peninsular war showed a Voltigeur of the 4th Polish with white overalls; short blue coat with yellow plastron ending about 3 inches above the waist, edged red. There are two buttons shown below the plastron, with a red edge to the singlebreasted closure. Green "brush" epaulettes with scarlet "moon." white collar edged top and front in scarlet. Red cuffs with no edging, and white flap as for the Old Guard Grenadiers with 3 brass buttons. Red polish turnbacks, no edging. I converted 36 Stadden 1815 voltigeurs to this battalion, using bearskins for the Grenadiers, and Polish Czapka for the rest. I also made the fusiliers with one crossbelt with bayonet and bullet pouch, and painted the tall plume on the Czapka black. Oh, yes. The Voltigeur has the black, square-topped headgear, brass lower plate and chinscales. white braided cords with flounders on the right, pewter bulge horn above the brass lower plate. A green plume tipped yellow. I think he had pale yellow edging on the top of the Czapka. White crossbelts, bayonet and short sword.

GdeP

That sounds almost right :) As far as we are aware these days, the only differences would be:

1. The "moon" on the voltigeur's epaulettes would be yellow, not red (grenadiers had all-red epaulettes, fusiliers would have none – just a shoulder "flap" ine the colour of the jacket (dark blue), edged red).

2. The collar would be yellow edged red for voltigeurs (red edged white or no edge for grenadiers, dark blue edged red for fusiliers).

3. Cuffs should be edged white., and the flaps on them should be edged red.

4. Turnbacks were sometimes red, but usually should be dark blue with red edge (and these would be indeed "polish cut").

5. The horn would be embossed on the brass czapka plate, above the plate should be polish eagle pressed in white metal (for fusiliers, the plate showed regimental number; grenadiers' plate would show regimental number with bombs on the sides, no eagle on the bearskin. Some regiments had no bearskin plate at all).

Tall plume is considered accurate for both grenadiers (red) and voltigeurs (green and yellow), fusiliers probably wore black pom-pom. Bayonet and sabre-briquet scabbards were of black leather. Yellow band around czapka's edge would indicate an NCO.

So, not bad at all :)

Just a note about Vistula Legion – it's believed that their grenadiers wore regular shako, with red decorations (same as 1815' grenadiers) instead of bearskins. Other troops wore standard french shako.

What a magnificent introductory "link" from Dave Jackson. What's that about the Polish national anthem "invoking Napoleon"?

Today's Polish national anthem is a modified version of song composed by Mr Wybicki for Polish Legions in Italy. The words concerned are: "Bonaparte gave us an example of how to win". These are still in the anthem today :)