"Gettysburg question" Topic

I have seen II Corps 2nd Brigade listed as :

19th Maine
15th Massachusetts
1st Minnesota / 2nd Co Sharpshooters
82nd New York (2nd Militia)

Is that the 1st Minnesota Regiment, or the company A, 2nd Sharpshooters?

Actually, you are referring to the 1st Brigade of the 2nd Division of the II Corps. It is the 1st Minnesota Regiment with the 2nd Company of Minnesota Sharpshooters attached to it.

Ack, yes its 2nd Division, 1st Brigade, my fault.

Did the attached sharpshooters keep there green uniforms, or were they in blue?

They didn't have green uniforms. No one did except the Berdan's. There was NO official special uniform for these kinda units.

Actually ___ALL__ soldiers were trained as skirmishers and did it ALL the time. It was nothing special. Supposedly these special sharpshooter units fought as skirmishers but oddly they even fought shoulder to shoulder. For the ACW gamers have to get over the sharpshooter/skirmisher thing. They did nothing very important to the overall battle results and were easily brushed aside by formed units that wanted to brush them aside.

But they look kewl.

Avid, I respectfully disagree with your statement about the uniforms of the sharpshooters: Berdan started the whole sharpshooting movement by singling out good shooters for his company, now commonly known as, well, duh, Berdan's Sharpshooters. Seeing what Berdan had done, other officers and men alike started trying to set up their won "sharpshooters" company, etc. The QMasters office did issue a special sharpshooter's uniform, but it was, in fact, almost a copy of the regular federal infantry uniform. I believe that only difference was piping around the collar and silk things on the hat. I'll look in Troiani's book tomorrow, but their was a small uniform change.
Wow, never thought I had it in me to do that.
Thanks,
John

ACWmudwalljackson,
I would verily second avidgamer's reply. I have never come across any special QM issued uniform for anything except the Zouave Brigade of '64. That doesn't preclude self-decoration or purchase but I can't recall examples.

It was so depressing when I got my Berdan Sharpshooter figures from OG 15 knowing that I would only ever use at the most 12 of them for JRIII and even at that they would be 'dispersed'. They do look nice painted though.

Nathan

Berdan's unit wasn't a company, it was a regiment – 1st Regiment of Sharpshooters, US Volunteers. The individual companies came from various states. The same pattern was followed with the 2nd Regiment. The 1st and 2nd Minnesota Sharpshooter Companies were, respectively companies A and I of the 2nd Regiment. The 2nd Regiment, however was never formed with more than 8 (A-H) of its companies, so the 2nd Mn SS spent most of its existence attached to the 1st Mn Inf.

Further, the 2nd SS was in the process of disbandment by the summer of '63, so the 1st Mn SS got attached to the !st Mn Inf. as well. They were one of the 4 companies detched with the baggage guard on the first two days of the battle, so they didn't participate in 'The Charge'. But all four detached companies rejoined to bolster the unit for the third day and were present in the action against Pickett.

Both Sharpshooter companies were subsumed with the Veterans and Recruits of the 1st Mn Inf. into the 1st Mn. Bn. in 1864.

But the company in question was/is part of Berdans 2nd Sharpshooter regiment at this time, despite being detached, hence the green uniform question.

Nate, you can use the OG Berdan figures for any Union uniform with frock coats. I use them for 3rd Corps figures at Gettysburg, especially Burling's Brigade as highlighted by Troiani. The brigade had frock coats and leggings just like the OG figures.

Fredd, The company attached to the 1st Minnesota were NOT Berdans. They had nothing to do with the 1st and/or 2nd US Sharpshooters. They were an independent company of sharpshooters raised by the State of Minnesota. The Berdans operated as regiments, although they were often parcelled out in small groups. On July 2nd the Berdans were all part of the III Corps and were acting as a picket line for the Corps. As for the uniforms, I've never encountered any information that the non-Berdans wore any sort of special uniform or trim.

Ok, My info was little off! Sorry!
Exactly right Scott! Berdan helped in the formation of the 1st and 2nd regiments of U.S. sharpshooters, more commonly known as Berdan's sharpshooters. Berdan recruited 18 companies, and my guess is they were split equally, 9 and 9. The rest of the self-proclaimed sharpshooters were either state-raised or homegrown.

On to the uniform part. Berdan had wanted his sharpshooters to wear flamboyant, special uniforms. At first he proposed a fringed blue sack coat. This idea was dropped for the more applicable and available green uniform so well known today. The QM never issued a "special" uniform, as it was regulation dyed green.

They really were only skirmishers, Nate, and green was an excellent form of camoflague in the landscape of northamerica. Their skills with the rifle, after 1862 was a double trigger, were of great use as they could pick of targets far away and screen for a large body of troops.

Most of this was from Troiani's "regiments and unifroms" and just plain "civil War"
Thanks,
John

The Berdans' uniforms were green partly for camouflage and partly due to the tradition that in Europe rifle-armed light infantry normally wore green uniforms. There is no doubt that camouflage was a factor because the coats had black rubber buttons instead of the normal brass and there were plans (never carried out) to have the belt buckles and other brass decorations done in black as well. The only difference in uniform between the 1st and 2nd regiment was that one of them (can't recall which one right now) had light green piping on the cuffs and collars of their frock coats (just as the blue-clad troops had light blue piping).

The 1st regiment was originally armed with the Colt revolving rifle but later Berdan managed to get them the Sharps breechloaders that he'd wanted from the start. One company in each regiment were armed with the very heavy (30+ pounds) sniper rifles with telescopic sights. These men were usually distributed in small groups for special duty.

While they were normally used as skirmishers, pickets and snipers, the regiments WERE used as regular line infantry from time to time. At Antietam they fought in close order and at Chancellorsville they made a bayonet charge.

Cleburne, when I bought them they came in the 100 figure bag with some Bucktails mixed in. I just remember thinking what the heck am I going to do with all of these extras? But thanks for the suggestion I think I will get the out today and paint them.

I just started working on 3rd Corps.I did I, XII, and II for Antietam first. My youngest son liked them so much that he wanted me to do the whole army in that green. I very tactifully ignored him and resumed painting. But have to agree that they are a very spiffy looking reg.

1st Regiment had 10 companies. The 2nd was to have had ten as well, but one of them never completed organization, and only eight served with the regiment. As stated above the 2nd Mn SS Co. was officially assigned as Company I/2nd Sharpshooter Regiment, USV, but never served with the regiment.

Again Scott, right!
The Green was the color of choice because of the common green uniform in European armies, especially in the light infantry

thanks,
John

I have been informed that the green frock was only used early in the war up until Antietam and then they wore blue sacks in the field with their green hats and green pants. The frocks were put away for dress occasions. This coming from Berdan Reenactors who have done thorough research on them. Just what I was told. I can't confirm or deny it!

First Off, the 1st Minnesota was the famous unit that made the charge into Wilcox's Brigade on July 2 and was along the wall during Pickett's Charge on July 3. The attached to the 1st Minnesota was 2nd Company of Minnesota Sharpshooters. During the Sharpshooter Trials for Berdan's regiment, Minnesota Furnished 2 Companies. Which In Turn the First and Second Company of Minnesota Sharpshooters. The First Company became "Company A 2nd U.S.S.S." and the Second Company became "Company I 1st U.S.S.S." Now during the Penisula Campaign the Second Company was transferred to the 1st Minnesota Infantry but acted as "Company L 1st Minnesota Infantry" They detactech themselves during most of the battles to do what there were trained for; sharpshooters. Now they were given 1859 Sharps Rifles when they were with the Berdans' and retained them when they transferred. But they had to draw up the regular infantry uniform and give back the green. At Gettysburg the Second Company was on detached service for most of the battle from it's parent unit.
As for the Berdans' wearing Green Frock Coats and until when. The Last time you would have seen the majority of soldiers wearing green would have been before Chancellorsville. Right before they shipped their winter supplies back to the quatermaster and drew up the blue sack coats but kept the green trouser and green forage cap. As in Troiani's new paintings "Uniforms of '63" and they were never issued the green frock coats again by the quartermaster.

I just saw the painting on his website. Damn Troiani and his research. :)

Makes you wonder why they didn't keep issuing the green frock coats. They had them to give to the 203rd PA at the end of the war. I wonder if the Sharpshooters asked NOT to be issued the frock coats.