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"Prussian landwehr uniform question" Topic


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tshryock18 Jun 2008 1:57 p.m. PST

For Prussian landwehr in the litewka and soft cap, I have a few questions about colors.

Is the cap the same Prussian blue as the coat?

Also, are the crossbelts white, black or because they are essentially milita -- any color goes?

Esquire18 Jun 2008 2:25 p.m. PST

I have never seen any authority for the cap any other color than the coat. I've seen authority to support varied equipment. As I understand, the militia obtain equipment through beg, borrow and steal. So, could be different colored belts (black and white) as well as pouches of various colors.

blucher18 Jun 2008 2:51 p.m. PST

Their cap should be the same colour as their coat however someone of them made do with civilian caps as well as captured shakos etc. Also some had grey or brown coats. The crossbelts would normally be white.

Im not sure if you can really call these guys militia though. I guess it depends on the definition of militia but they were "in the army" and some units were equal to the line in quality. They got less pratice rounds to play with and were funded by the provinces. Their quality depended on the region they came from very much like the regulars IMO.

Musketier19 Jun 2008 2:23 a.m. PST

While the Landwehr were clad and equiped in a hurry, by a much-restricted wartime economy, there were some regulations to adhere to (this is Prussia after all!).

Specifically, both the Litewka and the cap would be purpose-made – the men didn't just march out in their civvies. This would still guarantee variations in colour due to the use of locally available cloth, but for any given figure the cap and litewka ought to be of the same colour. depending on your basing system, I'd actually recommend keeping companies at least relatively uniform, since they came from the same area.

NigelM19 Jun 2008 4:49 a.m. PST

There are some examples of variations shown here.

link

As you can see the East Prussian has a grey coat with a blue cap. The only unit I can think of which wore grey caps was a Pommeranian Cavalry Regt. Also there are black and white belts used including mixed.

Knotel based some of the illustrations in the link above on the Elberfeld Manuscript. Hofschroer's Prussian Landwehr & Landsturm book has a number of line drawings from this manuscript too. I have chosen to paint my Landwehr based on these so I will do my Silesian Regiment in British Shakos with black belts for example.

Some civilian items may have been utilised, Hofschroer quotes an edict which stated something alone the lines of their civilian coats were turned into tunics, I will check the book later

mskelly19 Jun 2008 5:27 a.m. PST

There are no hard and fast rules for the attire of landwehr infantry.

Caps: Generally they were dark blue with a cap band (and sometimes piping) in the provincial colour. Usually the cap also bore the landwehr white cross and the Prussian black and white cockade. Some pictures show caps with black oilskin covers.
Other forms of headgear: as noted by others above, sometimes civilian headgear was worn, sometimes captured French shakos and, in specific case of some Silesian landwehr infantry, the British stovepipe shako was worn with a landwehr white cross affixed.
Litwekas (i.e. the coat): by regulation this was to be dark blue with collars and cuffs in the provincial colour but there are lots of variations on this. There are some claims that soldiers in different coloured coats (brown, grey etc) would be grouped together in the fourth battalion of the regiment. I don't have any data to support or disprove this.
Cross belts etc: For cartridge boxes and belts to hold axes, these were supposed to be black but there are plenty of pictures that show white – I expect it was case of using what was available at the time. Landwehr infantry also made extensive use of raw canvas bags and backpacks.

Things are a bit more complex for officers and NCOs. Landwehr cavalry uniforms are really a different subject altogether. Sadly, I don't have my references to hand to discuss those at the moment.

ROBemis7th19 Jun 2008 6:30 a.m. PST

Out of curiosity, does anyone know of any existing cap examples?

R.Bemis

Oliver Schmidt19 Jun 2008 7:14 a.m. PST

The only surviving Landwehr cap from the Napoleonic period which I know is this Pomeranian one (blue and white):

link

Two excellent articles (in German) on the Landwehr cross and its production:

link

link

onmilitarymatters Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Jun 2008 9:41 a.m. PST

George Nafziger's The Prussian Army 1793-1815 Vol. II: The Guard and Landwehr notes that the litewka ranged from light/dark gray to black, provincial colors on collar and bttn/sqdn colors on shoulder straps. Headgear of black or blue with headband of provincial color with other less common details noted. Separate page for cavalry colors.

As usual with a Nafziger book, extraordinary detail on organization, numbers, and commanders' names down to bttn level.

Vol. 1 is Infantry, Vol. 3 is Cavalry and Artillery.

Details: 1-43342 Nafziger, George F. ARMIES OF PRUSSIA, V2 8.5x11, history and organization, o/b's, b/w line drawings, biblio. 1 vol, 120 pgs 1996 US, GEORGE NAFZIGER PUBS
NEW-softcover ……$20.00


Mention TMP when ordering and receive free shipping.

Dennis from OMM
onmilitarymatters.com

Martin Kelly19 Jun 2008 10:50 a.m. PST

Another good reference for the landwehr is Hofschroer's "Prussian Landwehr and Landsturm 1813-1815" published by RAFM. I suspect it's out of print now but copies turn up regularly.

donlowry19 Jun 2008 7:09 p.m. PST

The caps could also be covered with black water-proof covers, which might or might not have a white LW cross painted on the front.

Belts were supposed to be white, I believe, but there were always exceptions,sometimes by units, sometimes by individuals.

They seem to have been somewhat better turned out in 1815 than in 1813-14, but that's a subjective assessment on my part.

Virginia Tory02 Jul 2008 6:03 p.m. PST

O>liver Schmidt

Are you the same Oliver Schmidt that wargamed with myself and Michael Gandt all those years ago?!!

Oliver Schmidt02 Jul 2008 11:53 p.m. PST

Tim, yes, that's me, Panzer-Schmidt:

sans-souci@gmx.de

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