"Who Makes 28mm Mongols???" Topic

Now that this film is being planned, I have a feeling that there will be lots of interest in figures and rules:

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QUESTION:

So who is currently producing 28mm Mongols?

Let's see if we can come up with an updated list.

Thanks.

CC

Curteys.

I cant wait to see some real 28mm Mongols. Looking to buy at least an army worth even though Im not much of a gamer these days.

Let's see If anybody steps up

Ebob

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Old Glory has some very nice Mongols. Also check their Tatars in Polish medieval or renaisance range, they will fit right in and they are very nice. Old Glory horses are wrong though, normal horses they use for other ranges, not steppe ponies.

The best Mongols I ever painted was Steeve Barber. Excellent pony looking horses, riders fit right on, very well sculpted, easy to paint. That was first time I painted any models from that company and I was pleasantly surprized.

Few Essex Mongols that I painted came from their Crusades range. Excellent sculpts, few poses though.

First Corps has a good range, few models I had were very nice.

Ral Partha has a nice range with pony looking horses, but they are smaller, true 25mm figures.

Check Molnia. They have a very good range of armored and unarmored cavalry for Golden Horde and Timurids that can b used for Mongols. Very well sculpted, few armored cavalry I have are very nice.

Irregular have some. Judging from photos they have on their site they are more like 25mm, and somewhat ugly.

I bought some Irregular years ago and was very disappointed so unless they've changed the sculpts I wouldn't go there. I've bought some of curtey's which ooze character but some people don't like the style. It makes painting very easy so I like it! I was tempted to pick up some Ebob figures but they seem to have more foot than mounted which strikes me as strange for this army. I also couldn't find armoured cavalry (though they may have produced some by now). I also thought their postage charges seem to penalise you buying a larger unit for some reason?

I too can vouch for eBob's… although a wider variety in the poses would be good… sculpt mor Mr Bob!

TAG

people wetting their pants over Mongols again. I don't get it. and now we have another movie about a murdering conqueror who was misunderstood. oh wah. so this is another "untold story", maybe "the greatest untold story ever told." i saw few bowsin the trailer but a lot of jap-looking swords wielded two at a time from horseback, what is up with that? so it was Genghis Khan's destiny to wipe out half of Asia's population?

It can be hard to understand how influential Genghis was to the history and culture of Russia unless you are Russian.

From the few books I have read his life reads like a Conan book or a fantasy book, you can see from the trials and tribulations where a lot of pulp and fantasy originates

Dowd… i think you'll find that description applies to the creator of alost any empire the world has ever seen!

Hey, at least they didn't cast a 6'3" Irish guy to play Temujin like the USA Network production of Atilla the Hun…

I have a different take on Mongols: wargames where they face European knightly armies are BORING unless you are playing the Mongols.

European knightly armies always lost against Mongols. The only reason Europe wasn't taken over and denuded of people was because the Mongols kept disappearing back east everytime their Khan died (ah the hand of God manifested).

If a wargame allows knights to even catch Mongols the rules are cooked; and if knights cannot catch them they turn into pin cushions really fast.

In my limited experience, players with Mongol armies (or Steppes armies being run AS or like Mongols) quickly run out of interested opponents.

Here's something else almost as boring: two Mongol armies shooting each other to pieces.

DUH, Mashrewb did

The eBob sculpts are great, and definitely worth getting despite the limited number of poses.

Also see the Steppe Horse Raiders under the "mercenaries" section of Fantasy Warriors over at Mirliton:

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I don't know an awful lot but do know that not all Mongol opponents were push overs (armies including those of the Middle East, Vietnam, India and Khmer defeated them). My guess is the Mongols needed particular terrain to win (and I assume to feed their horses) and may have had trouble against certain armies (such as Indian elephant and cavalry combinations).

I have no trouble believing that some European armies could win against them – say forces that emphasised good foot missile troops over knights or battles at river crossings or in restricted terrain – but it may not have been readily possible in Knight dominated society.

Noraneko – any idea how well Mirilton and Ebob mix?

Mirliton raiders is fantasy range. Their horses are huge, not the steppe ponies they suppose to be. Thy are larger than Old Glory horses and won't mix with any other manufacturers I mentioned.

I'm currently recruiting Curteys and old Dixons from Amazon.
The Dixon ones are a bit odd but they appeal to me.
I have found with the EBob horses that they don't have enough feet on the ground to be solid enough for a lot of table top action.

The steppe warface in which the mongols excelled can not be created in a game. Of course the knights and infantry of the western troops will get them in close combat because the world is flat, ie. they will eventually run out of table.

Try playing steppe armies and allow them to leave the table and return. You might sense some of the frustration that western commanders encountered. Might not be very fun though.

Junky, that's my point in a nutshell. Had I allowed the Byzzies at Manzikert (the one time I played that game) to push me (the Turks) off the table, the Byzzie side would have had a fit: "Why are you pulling your figures off the table?" "I am continuing to retreat in front of you, keeping you at maximum archery range, just like I've been doing all summer." "You can't do that." "Why not?" "Because we have no battle to play if you don't stay on the table." (Well, duh!)

Same with the Mongols. If they come across a European army blocking a ford, or drawn up with good armored infantry backed by masses of missile, whose flanks cannot be turned, the Mongols will take one look at the situation, then ride 200 miles away in 36 hours and trash someone who's not ready to fight them: then come back later and trash your people after you disband, or catch you on the march, or similar advantageous tactical situation. They never fought in a way that would produce a fun wargame for the side that is about to lose.

Thanks IGWARG1. I am actually building a fantasy steppes army and was looking for possible historical figs compatable with Mirliton.

Knight Templer is right of course (providing your horses had fodder, etc that is an option); except sometimes Mongols just attack and loose or sometimes enemies out smart or out terrain them (both as in my post above re: India, Middle East, Vietnam, etc).

Are the TAG Mongols and the Steve Barber ones compatible in size?

I just watched this movie – bought a version with English subtitles on ebay. About the first third is pretty faithful to the historical record (death of his father by poisoning, marriage to Borte, her kidnapping and pregnancy, put in the kang by his enemies, friendship with Jamuka, etc.) but then it starts to drift a little bit, including being imprisoned by the Tungus (?) and his rescue by Borte. I hope none of this is a spoiler to anyone! There are some good battle scenes (about as historically accurate as say Gladiator or 300 – lots more sword-fighting than archery, the weird Mongol human scythed chariots – the guys with 2 swords – and lots of Mongol infantry!) but still good, the CGI was not too obvious, and my wife even enjoyed it because of the love story between Temujin and Borte! It did make me want to look for someone who makes Merkit figures as in the movie (kind of weird fighters wearing masks, fighting with axes, tridents, etc.)

The TAG Mongols are nice, but very large; probably not compatible with Barber stuff, which as I understand it is 25mm-ish. I wasn't convinced by the TAG mounts which looked more like throughbreds than steppe ponies.

Simon

Curteys have a range for the Mongol unificaion of the tribes and early conquests. more releases are planned to cover western expansion.
curteysminiatures.co.uk

The handful of significant Mongol losses were generally tied to denying them the strategic maneuverability they were accustomed to. Sieges of truly paranoid opponents, terrain-determined choke points, and the occasional thing the Mongols really wanted but could not make respond to their maneuvers.

Without the tactical and strategic prowess of someone like Genghis Khan, the vastly different terrains of Europe would have defeated them. They had adapted to the open apple forests of Russia, but those don't hold a candle to the Black Forest…

If you are looking for medieval Mongols, Assult Group has a nice line of figures.

Who doesn't make 28mm Mongols?

Hinchliffe…

gavandjosh02 comments regarding some of the Mongol opponents not being push overs is correct. In fact many of them had the military capability to with stand the Mongols. The basic problem with all of them was political weakness / dissention.

Song – although they lacked sufficient cavalry they had the some very good troops as well as experience against cavalry armies and a navy; a combination that could have stopped the Mongol advance. However, the Song imperial court took too much control of the army and did not trust it's military commanders.

Khwarizmians – Supposably they had a larger army than the Mongols. Although their army wasn't as unified as the Mongols it did have some very good troops and fought in a some what similar fashion as the Mongols. Again, the Shah was weak and caved when the Mongols appeared.

Hungarians – They had a very good chance against the Mongols in terms of cavalry and infantry. The cavalry consisted of the typical European knights and a significant number of nomadic cavalry, the Cumans. However, the King did not have support from his people who did not like the Cumans.

In my experience in gaming, it is difficult to simulate the hit and run tactics of the horse archer.

I have seen Curtey's Mongols and they paint up quite nicely.

C

On Mongol lines, I've got all of the above.

TAG's are great – perhaps the best – but they don't mix with anyone else's, IMO, and they aren't cheap.

EBob's are as good as TAG's, but at the other end of the spectrum size wize. True 28mm models, but more gracefully sculpted than TAG or Curteys.

I agree with Shurite7 that Curteys are very good and do paint up nicely, but the sculpting style tends toward broader bodies and heads and is not my cup of tea.

I like Barber's: good proportions, though fuller of body than EBob's, but they should mix well together if you want more variety.

I agree with Igor that the Mirlitons do not look right, and the horse are indeed too large.

Dixon and Essex are good for adding extra poses – they should mix with Barber, OG, Curteys and Ebob nicely. Not TAG, though. Nothing really mixes well with their size sculpt, though in a pinch, you could put all-TAG units in an otherwise all-Old Glory army.

Those broad faces and fat bodies of the Curtey's don't do it for me either. Their "ponies" are also too small. I have seen what a real pony looks like and most miniatures have mounts that are too small… So, I can make the same complaint about other miniatures..

I need to order some of the EBob Mongols. I nee to have a look and see if he does any of the Keshik Gaurd though… I am wondering if TAG are the only ones who have a really nice Keshik Guard – I guess that Steve Barber's are not bad…)

Who makes 28mm Mongols? 28mm Mongol mothers.

LOL.

CC

people wetting their pants over Mongols again. I don't get it. and now we have another movie about a murdering conqueror who was misunderstood. oh wah…………….so it was Genghis Khan's destiny to wipe out half of Asia's population?

Well Hitler and Stalin were pretty nasty individuals too, but that doesn't stop people from enjoying their WW2 gaming, does it? That's what military history has to deal with.

But I do like this line:

…..so this is another "untold story", maybe "the greatest untold story ever told."

As for influence on history how about this thesis:

The utter destruction of Baghdad in 1258 by Hulagu Khan and his Chinese allies destroyed the Mesopotamian heart of Islam. Also, Islam became much more xenophobic and intolerant, the ramifications of which are still felt today. Discuss.

Ralph

Yes, Ralph. History does contain countless stories of neighboring countries getting along for several centuries without conflict, but those don't make for very interesting movies, or wargames. :D

Ah yes, Genghis Khan the movie. John Wayne as Genghis and William Boyd as Jamuga. It doesn't get any more real than that.

Rich