"New Successor 25/28mm Miniatures" Topic

I have heard that 1st Corps is working on this period and that Navigator (M M) is planning to add some varients to their range. Does anyone know of any further possible additions?

Crusader – scroll to the bottom of this link

'Temple Miniatures' had eggs thrown at them for some computer-generated pictures on their 'coming soon' site, but now I can't find them.

The mini co's can smell blood in the water better than sharks – the Successors is a book that I think will shift a lotta figures, and there are fewer suitable figures out there than you would expect.

Pat

Yes there aren't a lot; phalangites you can get from Foundry and Thureophoroi from Crusader, but no one does the Successor cavalry to my satisfaction in bigger 28mm.

Simon

Simon, I think Garrison made some cav. I think they ooked ok? Cheers Mike Adams

I thought the new Essex Parthians were pretty neat. OK, I know the Parthians aren't Successors, but they do get a spot in the WAB Successor supplement…whenever that hits the stands :P.
Still, it is encouraging that manufacturers are starting to develop their ranges for this fascinating period.

Cheers
Paul.

Hi Mike, I go for the bigger figure ranges, so Garrison or Essex wouldn't fit sizewise. I'd really like it if Crusader did the Successors as a range.

Simon

This is the "Empire Models" site, that Pat was referring to; it appears that only the front page is working, but it does have mock ups of some of the successor troops it intends to produce. I hope they get there (even though the last pic appears to be wearing thigh-length leather boots).

empiremodels.co.uk

Simon

Essex 25's are really more like 28's I think.

Simon, pease let us know when Empiremodels come out! Cheers Mike Adams

Mike, will do.

Simon

The Successor period is one that osprey have not covered, which is a shame. I think that 3 or 4 books in their usual style with nice artwork would be a great addition to their range.

There's a nice OOP Montvert on the period. I'm surprised that Osprey haven't covered it…

Simon

There were two linked Montvert volumes, one on the Seleucid reforms, and one on the Ptolemaic reforms. Very tightly focused, so far from a useful overview.

Fortunately, there is still Head's "Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars". I'm not a big fan of Ospreys, as they tend to focus on the unusual rather than the ordinary in the artwork. And if the author is, like Sekunda, one to push the envelope on interpretation (consider his Osprey on the Persians), an Osprey would be something of a disappointment to painters, I fear.

A well-illustrated counterpart to AMPW, on the other hand, would be very useful. Hey, Jonas!

Allen

Good morning BRDIII,

BSM (Battlestandardminiatures.com) offers soem excellent Macedonian cavalry. The Companions, Prodromoi, and Thessalians are very accurate (historically speaking… as accurate as can be derived). The Phalanx only offers heavy infantry, same with the Greeks, although lighter armored/unarmored variants have been requested of the sculptor. Available directly from the website. Email me for a sample if you'd like. Email me if the shopping cart feature is broken again. I've had some great difficulties with the shopping cart service.
Cheers,
~Lou

Doesn't Vendel do a Macedonian range?

Yes they do. Mike Adams

I do hope Empire models comes through with some of these Succseeors figuries and maybe even an African War Elephant. Allen is right about the Montvert books they focus on about 200 B.C. TO about 140 B.C. Myself I like the initial struggles and Civil Wars from this period, and while I'm being so anal, the D.Head book has two successor war elephants fighting on the cover, Foundry made one of these, a very beautiful model, but no longer on their website!

I want that Foundry Elephant too… Jeff Jonas has painted one up very nicely.

Simon

Simon; thats one great job, Jeff did with that model! I get envious every time I visit his site.

I really liked the way he copied the one on the cover of Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars.

Simon

"A well-illustrated counterpart to AMPW, on the other hand, would be very useful. Hey, Jonas!"

------> I laughed, I cried….
(Silencio!!!)
JeffJ

I have AMPW, a classic I have had 2 editions of since I first bought it at the age of 13. I also have the Selucid one of the montverts (I am not prepared to disclose the sum I paid for that, suffice as to say it was princely!!!). The montvert is a hard read, not your usual osprey fair. The artwork is bloomin lovely though.

I think there is a gap in the market here for a 3 or 4 book collection from osprey which is an easy read and provides a good grounding to lead on from.

The biggest problem with the Successors is reconciling epigraphical evidence with archeological and art references.
Often these are at odds with one another. In the last twenty years a lot of folks have been chipping away at the evidence. Generally the period of the Successors is overlooked by military historians as well as general history. After all they were the "Later Losers" and are sandwiched in-between Alexander the Great and the Rise of Rome (thanks mostly to Carthage, who bascially turned Rome into a world power by allowing them to turn the Med into their own lake)….

The difficulty with books and reference is there is little to go on to differentiate a Seleucid phalangite from an Antigonid from a Ptolemaic. Not much is written about them, and there is no wealth of accessible art.

Sekunda in his Montvert arguments is mostly focusing on post 166 BC, which is already past the glory of the Successor Empires- since the Antigonids had been rubbed out, the Ptolemies were a proxy state of Rome, and the Seleucids no longer wanted to risk facing Rome in a showdown, and did what they were told..

Sekunda's thesis is the conversion to Romanized gear was faster than many would believe…. it's an ok argument, but really is more nit-picky than what the gamer wants.

In the end, reconstructing troops is still difficult- Sekunda' Seleucid phalangite is simply dressed in the gear shown at the tomb of Lyson and Kallikles (which is in Greece not Asia). Hellenistic phalangites wore Hellenistic gear for the most part… the trousered pantodapoi of the earlier Successors and maybe late Pontics actually being much more rare than figure manufacturers would have one believe. It seems that somehow it has become a wargamers myth that all Seleucid and Asian phalangites MUST wear trousers…. but actually the evidence we have is quite the opposite.

The Montvert on the Bactrian army has the same problem… there is little evidence of anything in Bactria other than the wealth of art on coinage…. and yet that author also falls back on epigraphical evidence from the Antigonids for his recontructions of a phalangite- because we just don't know any better….

Ptolemaic machimoi gear and looks? Pure conjecture.

We have some good stuff about the Antigonid Army because we have a chunk of rock with a bunch of military regulations written on it. These regulations from the Amphipolis decree give us the main clue about a phalangite's armament and corroborates Diodorus, and later Asklepiodotus's accounts. Also Aemilius Paullus was kind enough to have the Macedonians illustrated his his victory monument for Pydna…

So that's hardly a basis for 3 or 4 volumes… but still one would help :) And yes the problem with Successor armies and the new jumbo 28mm world is that isn't a single volume history that links all this evidence together in an affordable book, that isn't forcing some baised aggenda down everybody's throats….

And yes I hope they never reprint the Montverts…. they are my retirement hedge fund :)
JeffJ