"Perry Plastic Unleash Demand for Napoleonics?" Topic

After reading all of the comments on the announcement of the new range of Perry 28mm plastic Napoleonics, a question came to my mind:

Is there a real and pent up demand for gaming 28mm Napoleonics that is about to be unleashed by this product?

In other words, I'm wondering if there are a lot of gamers who have wanted to game this period, but did not do so due to the perceived cost of buying lead figures in the 28mm size. Finally, I'm a bit surprised that 28mm might be more popular than 15mm figures (although I'm a confirmed 28mm wargame collector) Tne enthusiasts seem to fall into several camps:

[1] A number of respondants to the announcement have said that they always wanted to game this period and now that they can do it in plastic, they are ready to jump into the period feet first.

[2] Others seem to suggest that they may not have had an interest in doing Napoleonics, but now that the Perrys are sculpting them in plastic, they want to get in too.

I don't know if it is "Perry cachet" driving this interest (if so, then why weren't these people already buying the existing Perry/Foundry Napoleonics) or "price/quality/value" factors driving this interest.

Whatever the answer may be, I find it interesting that this range (and its ACW cousin) seem to be bringing new gamers into this niche of the hobby. I didn't think that it would be possible to add new cohorts of 28mm Napoleonic gamers. The bottom line is that this can only be a good thing.

I'm guessing there will be a bunch of unpainted, half-painted, half- assemble figures floating around after a while. Yeah, they're cheaper and very pretty, but they don't paint themselves!

Rob

I think the plastic figure help to releive the uncertainty factor of commiting to a new period. If it turns out Napoleonics doesn't light your fire all you have spent is a few pounds on some boxes of plastics.

What's even more interesting is that, of course, Napoleonics have _always_ been available in plastic, but in 1/72 scale. Therefore I think the Perry cachet has a lot to do with it, coupled with the multi-pose nature of the castings which will make it a lot easier to make your units either more uniform, or more varied, than the current 'you-get-whatever's-in-the-box' offerings at the smaller scale.

I'm already committed to a large collection of metal 20mm figures (Newline) but can see myself happilly buying a few boxes of Perrys for skirmish games, where the ability to have almost infinite variation is just what I'll want.

Henry
Battlegames

I believe a lot of the demand might be inpulse driven. Many of the people who buy the Perry plastics will be asking themselves why months down the road. Napoleonic gaming requires a lot of figures.

They have got me considering Napoleonics again. It was the first historical period I did, with 1/72 plastics some years ago. I ahve always wanted to go back to it, but the sheer cost of putting together an army always scared me off. The news of these plastics is very welome! I will certainly be putting together an army. I hope they do British as well!

I have a load of 15mm Napoleonic figure and they are not going anywhere. But plastic 28mm might tempt me to do s bunch for skirmishes. Of course, they have to cast up an aopponent for the French…

I've been thinking about putting on some sort of big game for Waterloo's 200th for a few years now. This has set me. I've been debating scales and other stuff. Now I know that it will be 28mm and it will be using Perry plastics. I had a couple of boxes of their metals here anyway and one got sprayed today.

So it has already begun.

"What's even more interesting is that, of course, Napoleonics have _always_ been available in plastic, but in 1/72 scale. Therefore I think the Perry cachet has a lot to do with it, coupled with the multi-pose nature of the castings which will make it a lot easier to make your units either more uniform, or more varied, than the current 'you-get-whatever's-in-the-box' offerings at the smaller scale"

Yeah but these are hard plastic. You can't even compare them to 1/72 scale soft plastics.

Hmmm I want 3 or so boxes, perfect for skirmishing as many have said.

Now if they will do British in stovepipes, the world is my mollusc.

Just my hunch, but I foresee ACW being much bigger than Nappies. With ACW, there were only two sides. Plastics fare better with just two sides. Too many uniform options in Nappies.

I've thought for a while that it would be nice to do a 28mm skirmish game for Napoleonics (I have 15's and 10's for bigger battles). The Perry Plastics just pushed me over the edge into the "there's no excuse now" camp.

Judging by past experience, my "skirmish" projects end up featuring hundreds of figures per side, so drawing people in like this isn't such a bad idea.

I have thousands of 15mm and can't convince anyone locally to play. I even have 6mms that never get any exercise. Yet I am feeling like I will need to get me some of those Perry 28mm. I have no game to play them with. I have no opponents for them to fight.

But I still want them.

I think it is just wanting them to paint up and look at. They have so very much character.

I for one whole heartedly welcome it!

I left the hobby some time back, and got rid of all my figures (a travisty, I know), and I think these new figures will be perfect for CAT's idea above. Esp with the 'twofatlardies' new skirmish rules set, which is appealing to me :)

I think a lot of people, mostly non-napoleonics players, are now really excited by the news but this will subside. I would'nt be surprised if interest is a lot lower when the Perrys actually release their plastic range.

As others have said, Napoleonics is not something you start on a hunch; it requires a lot of figures and commitment, and I don't believe that those who were not interested in the first place will suddenly become interested. I mean, it's only french line, you still have to buy all the rest…and you still have to paint the little guys.

I've been circling the Napoleonic era for a while now. Like warjack, starrted out with the plastic Airfix battle of Waterloo stuff and unloaded them to cover some student debt.

The Perry figures do appeal, and not just because they're Perry figures, I also like that you get a complete battalion in a box. The Fantassin 18mm stuff is packaged the same way as complete units and also appeals.

But do I want old style big figures, big units games or do I want smaller figures and more units to play out Corps or Army level actions?

I've seen some really good looking games with 6mm figures too.

Ands then there's the terrain; I already have lots of nice horse and musket, central European terrain for my 15mm SYW stuff. Redoing it all for 25mm seems well …. painful.

Of course my friend has shedloads of old 25mm Nappies too. He's awaiting his copy of Sharpe Practice. Hopefully something will happen on the games table…..

And like others have pointed out; the little s don't paint themselves!

Regarding skirmish gaming: considering the preview shot (and the previous ACW kit) it might be that a large proportion of the models in question are in marching poses. While this would be perfectly fine for larger battles (and especially rear ranks), for skirmish gaming it might end up looking a bit stiff compared to more dynamic poses.

Griefbringer

The paintings the thing. It takes me a month to paint a 24 figure battalion to a half decent standard so the difference in cost is neglegible to me. also I have to admit to liking the feel of a weighty metal 28mm in my hand. A plastic figure just wouldn't feel the same. That said, a decent range of 1815 Hanovarians might make a difference to my opinion!

Pete

Too many uniform options in Nappies.

Perhaps so, but given the French influence on many of their allies' uniforms, quite a few uniform variations could be done using slight physical or even paint conversions on French figures.

There are a few factors at wrk hre for me.

1) I pixcked up and sold off Napoleonics, twice.
2) If I had wanted to get into 25/28mm Napoleonics, I have an Old Glory Army card. Are these plastics cheaper tha $.60 USD each?
3) As much as I appreciate the cachet of Perry figures, that has not brought me into Carlist War or Samurai. Or, metal 28mm Napoleonics. What they make that I do not already have in the periods I already collect, I buy.
4) I do intend to buy ACW plastics from them, and Gauls from Wargames Factory, but only because I am already in those periods. Ditto the future HYW.
5) I have no wish to paint up both sides of a major new project ever again. I have done that too many times in the past.

So, I wish them well, as I wish all wargames manufacturers well, even if I do not intend to buy them. Healthy companies benefit us all.
I will not fall prey to the "All the Cool Kids are doing it!" syndrome.
Maybe, after Napoleonics, they will again do plastics in ranges in which I have interest.

"Perhaps so, but given the French influence on many of their allies' uniforms, quite a few uniform variations could be done using slight physical or even paint conversions on French figures."

This would have been much more true for the earlier uniform. I can't be tempted by the Hundred Days.

Allen

I will probably pick some up and try some skirmish games. The availability of inexpensive Perry sculpts is certainly what has tipped the balance for me.

If I find I really like painting Napoleonic era figures, I might start building up my forces.

Something I would try using that Dip metod thingy on :0)

I'm in the distinct minority. I haven't bought the plastic ACW, nor will I buy the plastic Napoleonics. They don't interest me in the least; Perry figures aren't my favorite stylistically.

At any rate, I think there is more buzz about the price than is really a factor in the purchase decision. Face it – have you ever finished all the figures you bought for a period?? Do you ever build large armies – REALLY large armies in 25/28mm? There's a limit in any scale as far as the number of units that make decent sized games…I think gamers are kidding themselves if they think they're really saving money. Personally, the amount of time I spend painting the figures dwarfs the purchase price of the figures. Why should I worry about a figure costing $1 USD or $2 USD if I spend 3/4 of an hour to 1 hour painting it?? I don't know what you guys value your time at, but its a precious commodity to me. I certainly don't feel that saving a few pennies on plastic figures makes any sense from a cost evaluation.

Now – if you like them, and the conversion possibilities – that's a different story.

Brent

For me, part of the urge to buy the new Perry 28mm Napoleonics is that they will go perfectly with my copy of Sharpe's Practise and my two 28mm figures for pre-ordering it.

and, again I say, I don't even play Napoleonics.

Never, never, never watch all 15 episodes of the Sharpe's saga in one week. It makes one order strange new rules sets and start new eras.

I've always been interested but the investment in 28mm is considerable. With the plastics there is more of an incentive. As to the smaller scales I just do not like painting the smaller scales even though there are some very nice 15mm and other smaller scales for Nappys. The vast differences in uniforms is another matter and as someone above pointed out you do not get into Napoleonics lightly which is one reason I am going with the 40mm Napoleonics and rules such as Sharpe Action for now. But I do love the big battles so I will have to see if the plastics jazz me to go for this period again in this scale.

The Perry ACW because I already game this period and I am currently helping playtest a new rules set have me very excited. Of course like the OFM I still come out cheper ordering form Old Glory with the Army deal but I love the Perry quality.

I saw the ACW figures the other night and was not impressed. They just aren't that good. They don't have the definition like the current lines of metal figures and they're pretty darn expensive I think…

I won't be buying any of them! :)

I'll buy them because:

1) I've been trying to figure out how I want to get into Napoleonics- 28mm General de Brigade style or 10mm Grande Armee style. Now I can afford both. And you don't have to do battalions of 36 figures- they sell extra command in metal.

2) I like Perry Miniatures. There are lots of pictures of them on the web. Plastic doesn't bother me- I miss being able to do conversions.

3) I like the 1813-15 part of the war. People who don't like late war Napoleonics probably also don't like late war WWII for the same reason- their super troops aren't so super anymore.

Rich

"I'm guessing there will be a bunch of unpainted, half-painted, half- assemble figures floating around after a while. Yeah, they're cheaper and very pretty, but they don't paint themselves!"

That sounds like the fate of a lot of metal minis in all scales and periods.

Why should I worry about a figure costing $1.00 USD USD or $2.00 USD USD if I spend 3/4 of an hour to 1 hour painting it?? I don't know what you guys value your time at, but its a precious commodity to me. I certainly don't feel that saving a few pennies on plastic figures makes any sense from a cost evaluation.

Binog PK Inc. exactly my thoughts. Difference between metal and plastic is minor in regards of the painting costs.
This being said, if I ever have to do 28mm Napoleonics, the weight of plastic vs metal may be a decision factor

The main points have been made…they won't paint themselves and price really shouldn't have limited someone from getting into 28mm Napoleonics, with Old Glory and all the other unpainted lead available in flea markets, etc. Painting the figures has been and will be the biggest barrier to a resurgence of Napoleonics…my observation in general is that there are less, not more, wargamers actuall painting their own stuff.

Second, it is very clear that the capital cost to produce the figures will not allow the production of all the various nationalities and variations on uniforms necessary to really do Napoleonics right…even the option of making minor modifications to the plastics will not fill that gap.

db

"At any rate, I think there is more buzz about the price than is really a factor in the purchase decision. Face it – have you ever finished all the figures you bought for a period??"

Yes. Right now I'm out of 28mm Carlist War figs, with the exception of three extra command figures that I don't need and never intended to paint so they don't count really. I need to buy more.

"Do you ever build large armies – REALLY large armies in 25/28mm? "

My 28mm Persian army, when placed in units, 4 deep for infantry 2 deep for cavalry, and side by side, stretches out for more than 8 feet. There are at least 600-700 figures in it.

I have a macedonian army to fight that and a Greek army to fight it.

Being that they are Persians from different periods I also have to remove the sparabara figs for the later fighting and replace them with kardakes.

I don't know if you count that as big armies.

For most of the other stuff I do the armies are smaller but I have very few armies that I've gamed with that aren't at least 150-200 figures.

So I think Napoleonics will work.

The big plus to me for plastics is that they are going to be very light weight to move big armies around. Sure I'll still have to buy the metals for other things, possibly even all the cavalry, but if the bulk of my troops are British and French line and I have them in plastic carting around 1000 figs will be much easier.

Oh, and they are not as likely to chip or have the bayonets break off which is a bit advantage in nappy plastics over metals.

"Never, never, never watch all 15 episodes of the Sharpe's saga in one week. It makes one order strange new rules sets and start new eras."

Yep, doing that right now … (and I don't even like the Peninsula campaign)

>>Just my hunch, but I foresee ACW being much bigger than Nappies. With ACW, there were only two sides. Plastics fare better with just two sides. Too many uniform options in Nappies.

That's my feeling too. I think they should have finished the ACW range first. All it needed was a couple of artillery pieces, associated crew and equipment, and ideally a wagon for supply trains. All the more specialist items like generals, Berdan's Sharpshooters and so on could be done in metal.

I don't buy the cost argument about Naps except if you are determined to do 28mm and large scale battles it does get expensive. 15mm figures are still cheaper than the 28mm plastics.

The main point is that 28mm plastic figures are a very new thing for historical periods. They have got a lot of publicity for periods that many gamers may have ignored, and that stimulates interest.

Look at the renewed interest in Ancients thanks to the high profile publication of Fields of Glory and the plastic Romans and Celts.

The Perrys have done the artillery and Wagons in metal (with limbers etc.). I think that was always the intention.

I think they should do them in plastic. The weight and difficulty of construction of large metal models makes them excellent subjects for plastication. One frame sprue with two Napoleons and a Parrot, another frame sprue with limber and horses, and a third with a selection of gunners would do the job.

I, for one, will jump in. I have been interested for some time, but haven't actually bought anything. Too many differents cales, too many rulesets. Other scales are fine, but I am a 28mm guy, and plastics are very easy to work with.
The fact that you get a Battalion in a box is nice, and even if I don't play with it, it will look smashing in my miniature cabinet!

Amazing! First time on the market for plastic Nappies!

Funny that we have not commented about the weight factor of plastics vs metal. I for one, having carried boxes and boxes of metal 28mm figures to put on the big convention game, can appreciate the lightness of plastics!
I have a English HYW army made up primarily of plastic Bretonnians (yes, yes THOSE GW types…but the old ones, quite historical actually..) but with some metal ones to make the army less posed. The box is SO much lighter. Very nice. The metals and plastics mix well together so I can see the same for Naps and ACW and the Ancients.

I agree ACW has a much bigger potential upside due to the relatively more limited variations in uniforms than does Napoleonics.

db

>I'm guessing there will be a bunch of unpainted, half-painted, half- assemble figures floating around after a >while. Yeah, they're cheaper and very pretty, but they don't paint themselves!
>
>Rob

If you are interested in buying these plastic figures in bulk it will be better to wait until six months after their launch when you can pick up unpainted figures at wargames shows at a fraction of their original cost.

>The paintings the thing. It takes me a month to paint a 24 figure battalion to a half decent standard so the >difference in cost is neglegible to me. also I have to admit to liking the feel of a weighty metal 28mm in my >hand. A plastic figure just wouldn't feel the same.

So what you want are ready painted metals?

>Why should I worry about a figure costing $1.00 USD USD or $2.00 USD USD if I spend 3/4 of an hour to 1 hour painting
it??

and

> Painting the figures has been and will be the biggest barrier to a resurgence of Napoleonics

Right! The biggest "value addition" in a finished figure is painting. The miniature is relatively cheap compared to painting. Especially if you consider how much your time is worth in the first world.

The "Perry Clique" (as the Chinese would say) have done something great for wargaming by stimulating so much interest in Napoleonics and ACW.

Neil
reinforcementsbypost.com

I've already got 10,000 28mm beautifully painted metal Napoleonics (not a no-neck,foundry dwarf amonst them, I might add) do I want with a load of plastic Perry figs??

I'll certainly buy a box and see how they paint up. However, assuming the quality will be up to the mark, I think the most important aspect of the enterprise will be providing some opposition, eg British and Prussians. My regular opponent and I have been considering Napoleonics for years but haven't taken the plunge due to other period commitments (not wanting a drawer full of lead sitting there gathering dust!) but we have just about finished those now so, timing wise, this would be ideal. The problem for us would be if they produce French plastics but no opposition.

Perry Napos? Where, where??? I bet Zvezda will pick up the trend very soon…

>>> 1) I pixcked up and sold off Napoleonics, twice.

Ah, still an amateur, then. I'm on my fourth complete collection, and thinking about my fifth. I didn't remember seeing any needle-tracks on your arms, so I assumed you weren't a real Naps gamer.

>>> 2) If I had wanted to get into 25/28mm Napoleonics, I have an Old Glory Army card. Are these plastics cheaper tha $0.60 USD USD each?

A good point. And you'll miss all those free extras with Old Glory, like the huge blob where the lower half of the face is supposed to be, or the shako brim that is joined by sprue with the nose, not to mention the free broken bayonets and flagpoles!

>>> 3) As much as I appreciate the cachet of Perry figures, that has not brought me into Carlist War or Samurai. Or, metal 28mm Napoleonics. What they make that I do not already have in the periods I already collect, I buy.

Huh? It's time to go on a Low-Pronoun Diet again, John.

>>>4) I do intend to buy ACW plastics from them, and Gauls from Wargames Factory, but only because I am already in those periods. Ditto the future HYW.

God doesn't play play ACW or Gauls.

>>>5) I have no wish to paint up both sides of a major new project ever again. I have done that too many times in the past.

A good point there. Is "making friends" out of the question?

Sam: I'm only on my third Napoleonic army project. I started with RSM 20mm figures, then when Dave Alsop's first Old Glory Napoleonics came out, I went in that direction and painted British, Prussians,Russians, Saxons and French in 25/28mm. I sold all of these off and now I am starting a new 1806 Project using a 1 to 10 figure to man ratio.

A nappy is a piece of cloth that a British parent ties around the nether regions of a not-yet-toilet-trained infant. Napoleonics is the usual short-hand for the Napoleonic period as wargamed by more enthusiasts than all of the other periods combined.

'Is there a pent-up demand…?'

I think you'll find that rather a lot of people have rather large collections of Napoleonic 25/28mm figures and game with them regularly. Some might say obsessively. And they haven't finished buying figures, oh no.

We're falling into the 'the world is defined by the number and interests of posters on my favourite internet message board' again.

Nah, Naps works as short hand too. Loosen up – you'll give the hobby a bad name…..