"3D printing of miniatures... ( Old News! )" Topic

Old News!

It's already being done!

Reaper's CAV line is currently almost 100% 3D printed. They're made by printing a master from a 3D cad drawing using a wax-like material. The wax master is polished with gentle rubbing and a lil rubbing alcohol, as the printing process leaves fine striations as the layers are built up. It's then sent to a jeweler, and cast in silver using investment/lost wax casting, as when a jeweler casts a ring. The silver master is used to make pewter masters for moldmaking. The Silver cav is then melted down to recycle and use in the casting of the next cav.

Wizkids also uses it for the MW:DA game.

Problem is, 3D modeling of organic shapes is hard, especially clothing. So while 3D modelling/printing is great for techy stuff like starships, mecha, and tanks, 28mm humanoid figures will undoubtably be sculpted for quite a while longer. Fiddling with a pouch on a warrior's belt in a 3D program takes a lot longer than working a bit of putty with a tool…

John Bear Ross does some sculpting for Reaper…
link

The latest CAV Journal of Recognition 2, all the images of the mecha/vehicle are from the 3D cad drawings. The figure you buy looks exactly like the art in the book… ; )

I had used a similiar rapid prototyping machine over 6 years ago for a project in graduate school. I have to say, though, it was rather cool designing the model in the 3d CAD software and watching the machine build it.

check out 3d-fax.com/NA/index.html

The company I used to work for had one of these for about 9 months. The model we had was about 6'x2.5'x4' and weighed a few hundred pounds. It also has to be completely leveled, otherwise the wax matrix won't build properly. It is fairly quick, but again, organic shapes aren't really that special... We used to smooth out the rough edges with orange peel oil. Worked great for spaceships though.

We just got one in the department at school, It doesn't seem to have any trouble with fluid shapes once they are modeled, including undercuts and so on-- they built a bearing race with ball bearings inside as one of the first half-dozen tests, and it rolls on the bearings...

They have been coating the completed models PVA glue to consolidate the surface and to add support. Without the surface treatment, the models are indeed fragile. But put these on bases, and paint them, and they would do fine.

The next phase, digitizing the originals, has also been developed (though we don't have one here). My prof was describing a 3d scanner box that scans the original with multiple lasers to generate a digital model.

Now if you take this scanner, a 3d printer, and add a metal fogging machine to metal-coat the finished models for strength, and use something like Rhinoceros to control a miniature paint application system (along the lines of an automotive robot spray system), you could get some piracy going... perhaps we could finally see foundry figures for a reasonable price. :)

"Problem is, 3D modeling of organic shapes is hard, especially clothing."

I thought the point of the news item revolved around Berkely's success with organic forms? The whole process you describe-John-seems awfully expensive. Are you saying that the wax like material/resin? isn't as durable as the epoxy greens?

Dude, I would never melt down the master. Silver is cheap. Maybe it's not cheap if you're getting it from the jeweler, but check the spot scrap values. The stuff is easy enough to refine and alloy. Maybe Mr. Ross ought to get his own gear. He would need:

a vacuum caster

some really sturdy stainless steel cylinders (the kind that is used for the pipes in a nuclear sub are great)

a pit of water

a drum of dentist's plaster

some tongs

a small kiln

Optionally, for refining:

a crucible

some chemicals (some interesting stuff in this list)

a torch

some busted jewelry

Printing them is fine, but MODELING them, in 3D is difficult.

Oh sure, muscle skeletons, etc, are relatively easy now, with developed tools. Of course, first you have to define the skeleton, then the muscles, then the pose, then tweak it if it doesn't look right. Nevermind sculpting new heads, etc. It's a multi-day process for just one character, and the software/hardware ain't cheap. It takes far longer for non-humanoid monsters.

Nevermind cloth modeling, clothes, bags ( how do they hang with weight in them, how do they pucker with drawstrings closed )...

This is what takes time and money.

Mecha, and other hard-lined items are easy. Constructive geometry is fast, the pieces don't effect the shape of other pieces when posed ( muscles bulge and move other muscles when moved ).

Now, Sandra and Bobby, at Reaper, can turn out a 28mm humanoid a day. With CGI, yer lucky if you get 1 naked humanoid modeled in a day.

As well as miniatures I am also into 3D computer graphics. I had been thinking about whether 3D printing could be used to design and prepare figures and came across this thread.

One of the software applications I work with is called ZBrush and its most recent version makes it possible to sculpt incredible detail digitally - it really is like 3D clay. It makes organic modelling in competent hands a doddle and so overcomes the issues mentioned above.

Other factors that should be taken into account when considering the time required to make digital models are:

-Parts of them can be re-used. For example, you could model e.g. a standard helmet, weapon, boots, or even a range of heads and then combine them to produce a particular figure. Once you had a library of digital objects it would be fast to produce figures by combining the parts necessary.

-Once you have set up a base model it is very easy to manipulate it into different poses.

-The digital models are resolution independent. What this means is that you could produce different scale figures (e.g. 15mm and 25mm) from the one digital model.

-You don't have to worry about keeping masters because you can always print out the digital model again and produce another.

I hear the same shudders from scultptors now as I did when people claimed they couls use computer to lay out pulications far easier than by hand....

This sort of stuff scares the ... out of me, and makes me angry. I got out of the illustrative/fine art field 'cos of piracy. One example: a few years ago I produced a series of fine-art prints of my local coastal area (UK north east) Within weeks, rubbish copies were turning up at flea markets; badly printed, badly mounted and badly framed - and with MY name on 'em...

OK, I've a chip on my shoulder, but, although I wouldn't be without my computer (to talk to you guys, cop the market, and - most of all - study the work of the guys I admire)I'm becoming more and more obsessed with old-fashioned CRAFT. And for me this is miniature-sculpting the hands on way.

I can well understand how mechs can be designed by computer in 3D - I've done it myself, and used it for a useful visual maquet. But for a machine to do the work?... Oh Lord no! At college I've seen the barely talented convert photographs to what appear to be half-decent watercolours. It makes me sad; for one thing, kids can't be persuaded to learn the basics: draughtsmanship, colour theory, mixing, brush-work, etc.

I'm so hot under the collar that I've written this without looking at the date of the post! Maybe this thread's worn out by now.

Whatever.

I must be getting old.
Best wishes to all the artists and craftsman out there. And regarding getting minis cheaply? For me that's the thin edge of the wedge. On the other side of the world people are producing goods we want cheaply, and winning the economic third world war on the quiet.

Disagree? So make a noise.

Tonkin.

I disagree, Tonkin. Mainly with your jump from industrialization to outsourcing. Handicrafts are *exactly* the kind of item that the second world does best. If you want hand-crafted items (e.g. sculptures, minis, weapons), India and other lesser developed countries still have craftsmen who are the end point of an unbroken lineage of hand craftsmanship. They could do it; but they don't know what people in developed countries want. Plus, minis aren't big enough of an industry. So, whether hand-made or industrialized, minis such as these will probably stay in the countries who want them. Little plastic soldiers for kids are already produced overseas.

As far as mechanisation, I think the invention of the photograph was supposed to put painters out of work. Didn't happen; the originality of the artist became premium instead of the ability to faithfully recreate details. It put many artists out of work but liberated others.

Finally, I disagree with your characterization of international economics as a "third world war." Who is dying in this world war of yours? Oh, wait, it's those people in the third world, whom you say are winning, who are trying to increase their life expectancy past 1/2 of the first world's by scavenging for the crumbs of our economy.

Whatever. You asked.
dancer