"Touchy GW Forums... An Experiment..." Topic

A few months ago, there were some comments about the sensitivity of many members of GW gaming forums…

I decided to put that to the test… I wish that I had more time to do so, as I did enjoy some of the members, and it would have been interesting to see how they would have reacted if they had actually seen samples of my work (I have noticed that many of them will cut a really good painter all kinds of slack, whereas if they do not know… or you suck… They are faster with the knife to cut you off)…

Seems that they are indeed tremendously sensitive guys (I do not mean sissy "sensitive", but, easily hurt or offended… maybe that is sissy???)… And… They do not pay attention to what is actually said to save their lives…

I won't go into details here unless asked…

I am more interested in what others have found on various GW centric gaming forums.

Were they fast to anger if you criticized GW, or its products?

What did they do if you suggested that you did not use the products as GW intended?

What did they do if you suggested using other models as proxies, or if you have solutions to the pricing woes of GW?

Are there any that are not so exclusive to GW branding?

"I won't go into details here unless asked… "

Come on, put your money where your mouth is and give us some examples.

I've become moderator on a Dutch GWforum, after having nagged – with succes – for years and years to get a subforum for Non-Gw and Historicals to the extend that the Fanboyz have left and the community has become more "divers" and "mature".
Just don't complain, feed them and keep on feeding them with great alternatives at low prices…. and of course keep comparing the next Ubercoolliejoolliestonkin' overpriced plastic megawizard with the earlier editions, going as far back as the mid-eighties.
More and more people will come to their senses :-) .

It depends on the forum.

Some forums are full of fanbois and you make an adverse comment on GW to your peril. Others have a more mature membership.

Dwarves are of course admirable.

You might want to revise your experiment – you seem to have already come to the conclusion that GW gamers are overly sensitive. If you go into a forum trying to start a flame war, chances are that you'll suceed.

I suspect that it may sometimes have to do with how far a forum's members are from GW's 'target demographic', whether in actual age or in mental age. The closer that they seem to be, the narrower the thinking …

How and how well the fora are moderated also plays a role.

Of course, membership by high enough proportions of current GW staffers and their friends can sometimes have an adverse effect …

That being said, there are always exceptions, and some fora do seem to be blessed with more open thinking overall, including the UnderEmpire: underempire.net/index.php

Things that happened:

I first made it known that .

Then, everything was more of less OK, until the closure of "The Last Alliance" forums were announced.

One of the complaints with the operation (by the owner, who had to close it due to his complaint) of The Last Alliance site was that it cost too much to warehouse all of the galleries of pictures.

I suggested a way to cut down on the long term storage of photos of miniatures by a juried process of the works that had been up for longer periods of time in galleries where the owner had either produced better quality works, or where the owner had simply stopped participating in the hobby at all…

I was met with cries of OUTRAGE!

HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT SOMEONE NOT BE ALLOWED TO SHOW/POST THEIR WORK!

(Sorry for the shouting there)…

I tried to ask them:

What gave you the idea that I wanted to do that?

Then I tried to explain what a juried gallery was (Basically, that all members of a forum would vote on the best pieces to keep, and to put in a forum for longer term storage – much like a portfolio… and, that in the cases I described above… There should be a process to decide when it is time to discard the earlier works)…

Didn't work…

Only one guy bothered to respond, and then only after I asked him twice to go back and pull specific quotes from my posts to support his claims (or their claims)…

He did… But rather than use the wording that I had used… He again put words into my mouth.. Not even bothering to read what was really written…. when I proved that he was incorrect in his interpretation… He then tried to say that he never accused me of what was being argued over in the first place (I believe that he also altered one of the quotes from my post – I wonder if he thought that I wouldn't go back and check to make sure that what he posted was indeed what I had written)…

Soon after this happened… The Moderator, who had outright refused to go back and re-read what I had posted (I Don't need to go back and re-read it… I know very well what it says… blah, blah, blah… rant, rant… then…lie, lie, lie), began following every post that I made in every forum with a criticism (often tenuous as a gossamer thread) that I was not on topic, sexually inappropriate (he let that comment go a week before commenting on it)…

I wonder what all was in my Mailbox at the site before he banned me… I had a PILE of messages… I know that some of them were from a sculptor who I had been talking to about various aspects of work…

But… Many others seemed to be just kids… Most had relatively poor grammar ("is there going to be made any more wood elfs" instead of "Are there going to be any more Wood Elves made by GW" or "Are GW going to be making any new Wood Elves", etc… I checked… English was his primary language… That was the worst case though…), and a complete lack of ANY knowledge of historical precedence for most of the troops (it was a Tolkien site: The One Ring.UK… Not "The One Ring" site run by the film fans)… some seemed to think that "Heavy Infantry" meant that they had to have plate armor on ("What about Greek Hoplites?" I asked "They were completely naked in many cases and were considered "Heavy Infantry"… Or, Medeival Archers of Crossbowmen would be armored in Plate, yet be considered light Infantry (psiloi)")….

Almost all of them thought that all camels had two humps… It is only the Bactrian Camel that has two Humps.. Dromedaries have only one.. and they are the more common camel to most (This was on a thread where everyone was allowed to criticize the fact that the Camels soon to be released for the Haradrim had one hoof per foot instead of two hooved toes per foot – and they had horses legs… I got away with it until I made my comments about Juried Galleries to save space and allow visitors to be able to go straight to the better works without having to wade through hundreds of works from beginners… If someone wanted to see which beginners were showing promise… It would give them a way to do that as well… Posters could even select whether to participate or not.. anywa.. back to my point.. After making that(those) comment(s)… I was not allowed to say very much)

I did manage to get a few people interested in HoTT, as the images of elements seemed to be fascinating to some.. I also got a shock of Awe at the number of LotR models I own.. They were apparently not used to the numbers of figures required for your typical DBM (DBMM, FoG, Hoplon, Warrior, etc..) Army… In the case of Moria Orcs… I will need 500 plus of the little s (I have 300+ already – I have been extremely fierce in my pursuit of bargains and have managed to get them at about 30% of what GW sells them for)…

That whole point raised the argument over the LotR SBG being nothing but a skirmish game (I won't go into all of the arguments over that here.. But most GW games are essentially skirmish games that pretend to be mass combat – LotR SBG being the most egregious to make this claim… At least WAB makes some attempts at representations of massed formations)… They couldn't see how that could be, and it required more of a history lesson than I could muster… and I didn't think that sharing my past with them (prior gang affiliations in the mid-80s, and events surrounding that) would have improved things or cleared them up (Describing that simulated combat is not the same thing as real combat, and that waving a stick around on a park field or city commons is not the same thing as trying to kill someone with that stick)… So… All that did was to bring up more and more questions (from what I am guessing would be the "Mature" lot, and more complaints from the kids (whom the moderator/administrator seems to have been among)…

So… I am thinking that I am just going to be sharing my LotR armies with the normal Historical lot I normally associate with (and here eventually), rather than look to other LotR miniatures fans… as they seem to be mostly brainwashed by GW fanbois (I wonder if you could be even more over the top and spell it "fanbeauxs"???)

It isn't like I intended to stay in the forum…

I was on a couple of GW forums, and I'm still on some groups. On one of the forums, as soon as anyone posted a negative comment about GW the topic was locked and soon deleted. On the other one I posted about some non-GW figures I used in a game, and I was delisted. Then again, I'm on a few others where no one cares and are indeed interested in seeing what you can do with something different.

I run a number of forums for GW's 40k system and have a rule about griping about GW – if you gripe about GW, use facts not myths. Anyone who gripes about GW with no substance is politely told to stop. And on the flip-side, if you praise GW, use facts about said praise – it works both ways.

Well, there is no driving licence test to make and moderate a forum on the internet, or to join them either.

"But… Many others seemed to be just kids… Most had relatively poor grammar ("is there going to be made any more wood elfs" instead of "Are there going to be any more Wood Elves made by GW" or "Are GW going to be making any new Wood Elves", etc…"

I have graduate students that write much worse than that…

"Fields is the part on the record when the system designer designated space for data to be inputted there."

GW forums are filled with posts complaining about rules, cost, FAQ, or retired figures. Often times with more venom than you'll find here at TMP. Other than on GW's corporate forums, I've never seen or heard of a post deleted for GW bashing.

Kinda sounds like you went looking for trouble and got what you were looking for…
Then again, it might not have been the suggestions you made as much as it was the words you used to suggest it. Judging by your longer expository post here I could see how some people might feel they were being condescended to.

I agree with Venusboy. It certainly sounds like you were ing for trouble. But that's not really terribly surprising considering the kind of GW bashing posts you have done here on TMP in the past.

I think our OP has way too much free time on his hands. Apply some of this energy to solving world peace or robbing banks. Both would be more rewarding pursuits than this pointless lark.

Damn shame that TLA closed their forums… I liked that site, they had lots of good info over there.

Palantir is a huge pain in the butt to use…

Any forum that wants to ban a pirate is fine by me…

Mike

I'd love to see that discussed with a GW lawyer.

So, From your post you go into a message board dedicated to a game and proclaim you believe in recasting, You play a grammer nazi, you have a fit they didn't take a idea of yours, and care if they know how many humps a camel has?

I am dumbfounded why you didn't get along with them.

No board I have ever been to has been cool with talking about recasting and recasters tend to get run out.

So they didn't take your idea…. I asked bill ages ago to add a yesterday link at the bottom of the page to see all the posts that have fallen off the front page and he never did it. Should I get mad at that?

They don't know historical stuff, so what? Is it a board for HISTORICAL wargaming? If it is dedicated to GW games don't expect the topics to stray to far from that.

Why anyone cares what someone else likes to do in their free times amazes me. Play ACW? I don't and don't care if you do or not. If you like it have a great day and enjoy playing it, but I will not bash your for your choice in games.

this is all just silly.

dedicated to a game and

That should be;

dedicated to a game you don't play.

Judas, your little adventure there reminded me of a SF story where a jewish guy travels to an alternate reality where the Nazis won WWII, invaded the USA and remolded it in their image. Anyways, the first thing the guy does there is go into a bezerker rampage and gets himself killed. Kinda daft on his part.

Now a lot of us have problems with the culture that Games Workshop encourages, but you don't have to go over the top and all nutso to point it out to the fanboys…

Sounds like you went there with a whole load of preconceptions and did your best to prove them.
You could do exactly that with any forum dedicated to a particular subject.

….carthaginian pikemen anyone?
…what about wargamers are smelly fat bearded social outcasts who can tell you what underwear napoleon had, but cant hold a conversation?
..or any contentious issue.

Why did you even bother to try this?, other than baiting fans who dont have the same views as you.They're allowed to like GW stuff on a GW website y'now,does it really matter that they aren't interested/dont know about other periods.
Live and let live,I find this board just as sensitive and blinkered sometimes.

Not exactly ing… I actually like the site, and there are plenty of gamers there who were pretty bright and talented…

There was/is some incredible work there…

It seems that it is just one or two people among the crowd… just like hre.. who seem to take exception…

And, I have to admit… when I get those types… I learned pretty well from one of my prior Doctors how to deal with people like that in a manner that can be pretty confusing to them… Not to mention more than a little contentious as well…

And… I have, and probably will again, argue this with GW lawyers.. You can be surprised how accommodating they can be when you respond appropriately…

As for "Baiting" fans…

No such thing… The only things that I did on the site that caused much controversy were surrounding their misunderstanding of comments about juried showings of art… I think that some of them are attempting to resolve that issue… So.. Some level heads do prevail in some cases…

As for history… LotR is about as closely associated with History as you are going to get in a Fantasy setting. JRRT may not have been a military historian, but he did seem to have enoughg knowledge of it to be able to describe the battles in enough detail that there are now thousands who work to recreate them.

It would be a shame to just arbitrarily throw reality out the window in a world where it was so painstakingly woven through the fabric of the world.

And.. All of my historical commentary was in relation to comparison between the various troops presented in ME and those actually in existenc (Like Cataphracts – Easterling Cataphract… Phalangites: Isengard Uruk-Hai Phalanx… various Mounted troops… The differentiation between troops meant solely as a skirmish screen and those who also are meant to form up and fight as units- a role that can be taken on by the various ranger of ME… And so forth)…

I was trying to be as non-contentious and kind to GW as I can… I admire much of what GW has done (Envy would be a better word for a lot of it really), and wanted to make sure that this was understood if it came up (only a couple of times really)…

As for their "Target Demograph"… That ain't exactly a secret.. go read their stock reports, which have a pretty detailed business plan including break-downs of their sales…

I am not trying to go out and proselytize for the non-GW market… I was simply seeing if the observation was correct… It turned out to be…

Observations are just that.. Observations… They record what happened… That doesn't mean that there necessarily exists any emotional or judgmental attachment to that observation…

For s sake, get a life.

It's pathetic enough to go ing a GW forum in the first place but to come here and act smug and superior about it is just icing on cake.

And you're a recaster too?

Do you have any other unsavoury habits we should know about?
I can think of one obvious one…

I take exception to that…

I didn't come looking for entertainment either here or on the One Ring…It just seems to be something that I found…

As far as Unsavory Habits… I have plenty… Fewer now that I did at one time…

Name-calling is not something that I am too afraid of either… I have had much, much worse done to me…

In my haste.. It seems I have forgotten to thank the few who actually paid attention to what I said here…

Back to the few who actually did answer a few of my questions…

Thanks to KillKrazy, Lordofdane, Condottiere, and Skeptic (You know.. I seem to always see you guys comments on other threads… and they always tend to have several traits in common*) for actually addressing one or more of my points…

I know that I went into the whole experience with somewhat of a predisposition to thinking that I would be running into a bunch of hormonally charged teenagers… That seems to have been only a part of what I encountered. There were a few there who had some surprising talent, and I was floored to learn that they had not ventured out into the hobby at large… And, that some of them were not even aware of a hobby at large… Even more surprised was the enthusiasm of those at discovering that hobby (much in the vien of Lordofdane's suggestions.. Feed them… which is really what I was aiming to do… Hell…. I used to work for GW in ages past… It was a different critter then, though… I wanted to see what was buried in "them thar hills")

Now… To do something that I have been taught is polite to do…

Could one of you hyper-critical gentlemen please explain where I made a "smug and superior" statement… I would like to see my own words used…

Heck… anyone… I know that I have a particular view of some of GW's fanbois.. But… I don't begrudge them their love… Only their derision of others…

* You guys always seem to have a comment directed at a specific statement of either the original poster or to a direct question from a follow-up. I don't think that I have ever seen any of you outright complain or berate anyone or anything, and… This one is one that I try very hard t stick to…. I have rarely seen any of you make an absolutist statement… I think that absolutist statements are the bane of rational thought, and that they seem to be the enemy of irrationality and emotional subjectivity… I know that in almost every case of a hyper-critical emotional response to something I have seen… at its core will almost always be an absolutist statement…

OH.. And a correction…

It was not a Moderator/Administrator who was among the more vocal complainers about various aspects of historical stock among Tolkien's works… Turns out that my memory there was a little off (and not having access to the forums to check my names)…

Turns out the Administrator is a fairly level headed guy… Even if he does at times not pay attention to what was actually being said… That happens a lot when people's emotions get in the way…

"Could one of you hyper-critical gentlemen please explain where I made a "smug and superior" statement… I would like to see my own words used…"

This one perhaps :

"Now… To do something that I have been taught is polite to do…"

Steve P

Oh Judas. What a heap of drivel.

Don't tar all TLA members with the same brush. Sure there are many kids on their who know nothing of life but what they find in their local GW store. But there are also many mature, experienced and knowledgeable guys too. The fact that none of them appear to have responded to your post (and I can point to many, many decent sensible non-GW-fanbois posts on TLA if required) is probably more to do with the fact that you are a .

!

Oh, and by the way, you may wish to learn the difference between "there" and "their" before you post any more of you rantings. Not doing so just makes you look poorly educated…

Just thought about something else. You may wish to reread your posts for legibility before posting again. As things stand your grasp of the English language as a whole is bordering on the sub-literate. Try using complete sentences and proper paragraphs instead of using multiple incomplete sub-clauses separated by rows of dots.

And let the record state that I haven't bought anything from GW for many years now, and I have been a wargamer for 28 years and a student of history for even longer…

I find it in interest personally that you have chosen the handle of Judas for yourself.

I sometimes wonder why people choose the names they do for themselves. My own based on a old nickname, and a message board I ran. I do wonder as to yours.

You seem for whatever reason to identify yourself with the idea of the betrayer.

For most of the people in the hobby recasting is vile. Feel free to spin it however you will, but making copies of figures is wrong.

Recasters tend to sell there works… I do not

Your words for you, take a note of the key word "tend" as in meaning not always. So by your own words we could say "Recasters sometimes sell there works" or if you prefer "I sometimes sells my works"

Now the premise of recasting "OOP" stuff gets no more love just because its hard to find.

and most often with works that are no longer available

However you state yourself that you don't just go for items that are hard to find. By the choice of using "often" you declare that you are open and willing to copy any figures you want.

I have 300+ already – I have been extremely fierce in my pursuit of bargains and have managed to get them at about 30% of what GW sells them for

I wondered how you "managed" to find 300+ all at good deals.

As for your request,

Could one of you hyper-critical gentlemen please explain where I made a "smug and superior" statement…

Here you go.

I didn't come looking for entertainment either here or on the One Ring…It just seems to be something that I found…

Glad to see you find entertainment in living up to your namesake. Feel free to "betray" the hobby, and recast.

I mean your "doctors" don't know do they. How you strive to show yourself in a bad light. I mean if people cannot like you for you, they will at least notice you when you do something bad.

Well you have been put on notice "Judas" spin your lines to others for I don't believe them. Take your 30 silver and your 30% discounts but know that money doesn't buy happiness, and over time your stolen lead will rot.

Boyo Howdie…

Do you know what I have done for a living for the last five years (and during the period when I last had to have a job?

It was as a sculptor.

I care not a whit that you don't like "recasters"… I care not a whit that you thik I am one…

As for my choice of "Handles"… I earned this one from something that people like the ones who have reacted so negatively coud never hoe to understand from their actions/reactions…

Please… Point out a single mis-use of the illipses I have made?

No… Never mind…

Do you know what I have done for a living for the last five years (and during the period when I last had to have a job?

It was as a sculptor.

Well… I am sorry. I didn't know that as a sculptor your allowed to make copies of others works.

Please the rest of the sculptors on the board would love to see your works.

oh and,

I care not a whit that you don't like "recasters"

I am speaking for the whole of the community here. No one likes recasters.

I earned this one from something that people like the ones who have reacted so negatively coud never hoe to understand from their actions/reactions…

Straight from the lips of Judas indeed.

Tetchy,

You see… Your remarks are exactly what I was talking about:

"Don't tar all TLA members with the same brush"

I (I am about to use an absolute again… Don't let it go unnoticed like so many other things that I actually did say) NEVER said that about ANY TLA member or forum.

Lastly '…' They are called "ilipses". Their presence indicates that something has ben left-out of the text. This can be an intentional omission by an author, indicating that there is much, much more to be said on a topic, but that there is no space at the moment for such info, or it can be used by a person quoting another's text to indicate the willful omission of text. This is often done to create the impression of a preference of support of a position that is often not present in an author's work.

I wasn't going to say anything about this last point:

I wear my stifles like a badge of honor!

It means that someone is so intently focused upon me that they just cannot think clearly. That I have upset them to the point of irrationality.

I should point out that I do not seek this out, That I do not go looking to be stifled and that I think stiflers are no different than censors. There are times and places where…

And.. to dropzonetoe.

! PERIOD!

I really hate and despise ignorance. I really hate and despise irrationality…

Actually no.

In the US recasting is illegal, in it's entirity, w/o explicit permission of the copyright holder. There is no exception, even for copies for personal use.

Now some countries have exceptions in various exceptions. For audio works, the AHRA grants legal copying and cross-encoding of songs for use on different kinds of playback equipment you may own. So ripping CDs to MP3s for personal use is ok.

But just because you say "But it was only for personal use" doesn't mean it's okay.

Copying old works of Art is legal, because their copyrights have entered the public domain. Also, since you did it at school, it falls under the "Educational" part of fair use, so technically, you might be able to violate copyrights on modern paintings as well, so long as it is part of a class.

So unless you're recasting 100 year old lead soldiers ( whose copyright would be in the PD ), you're still violating the law.

You say you know the law, but you get even the basic points wrong!

MAN.. Go learn the law..

Oh…

I get REALLY upset about this topic.. and happen to know more than I would care to about it…

Because I lost a FREAKING FORTUNE to a guy who copied a brone fountain that I would have made 1/4 of a million in commissions off of if my boss had given him a freaking discount…

As it was… The guy went and learned how to do bronze casting from an original, and went and made himself three copies of the thing…

We took him to court… We had the case ruled agaist us immediately after opening arguments. The judge then handed me a "Little" pamphlet as I flailed and screamed about how I had been stolen from… He just said…

"With everyone in your family being a Lawyer (He has sat cases argued by most of my family) I would think that you would know about this" (Actually, my little brother and sister and mother are not lawyers… But everyone else is..)

Judas, you're full of .
Re-casting an existing miniature is theft.
Sculpting a copy of a miniature by hand isn't theft, but that's not what you do is it?
You re-cast and take money from manufacturers' pockets that we all end up paying for. Buy a single miniature and cast a regiment from it 'for your personal use'.
Theft.

Judas Iscariot 12 Nov 2007 2:32 a.m. PST

I am NOT A recaster

Yes you are

Recasters tend to sell there works

Some of them do, others recast because they are too tight to buy the minis in the first place

Judas Iscariot 12 Nov 2007 2:32 a.m. PST

I'm a thieving re-casting arseclown

Yup, you are, and now everyone knows it.

GW fanboys=lemmings

Or just as bed. No matter what GW does they will buy product.

They will complain about everything; prices, nerfed armies, models (too many or lack of), artwork, stories and everything else.

But at the end of the day, no matter how much they dislike it, they will buy GW product, even if they hate it.

Correction:

GW fanboys=drug addicts

He may well be a paltroon when it comes to dubious IP law, but at least the gnostic discussion was a change from the normal bible bashing moralists (although still entirely besides the point)..

I always thought Judas got the short end of the stick myself, until I started reading gnostic works.

Then I found Pastafarianism, and have not looked back since. Have YOU been touched by his noodly appendage?

Oh dear,this isnt going anywhere fast.
No-one like a sanctimonious pedant who thinks he's cleverer than most.
Grow up, you're just one kind of nerd laughing at another kind of nerd because your nerdhats are different colours.

Juda get a life to theiving

It is a tribute to the open nature of these forums on TMP that even an absurd and repetitive argument like this one isn't locked or moved by the moderator.

Guys, don't feed the s. <g> I love these forums, but after the first dozen posts this particular thread stopped being amusing.

Not a recaster, --- Wheldrake

Now… where's you quote Mr. Smarty Pants?

You want quotes, you can't handle my quotes!

I will not balk at the legal reproduction of certain figures that I feel to be overpriced if I want a few more of them

I am NOT A recaster

Fgures that I do reproduce for my own use are only done after I have pursued all other options for obtaining said figures

Unless they cost too much right?

That person would probably NEVER have bought that many of them…

\

I have 300+ already – I have been extremely fierce in my pursuit of bargains

300+ and you bought them all, or did you recast them? Seems to me that GW lost a lot of sales for 300 figures, seem like it would hurt them.

As far as Unsavory Habits… I have plenty…

I flailed and screamed

I AM trolling.

Have a great day.

Are you sure Wheldrake…this thread is giving me a good giggle.

When looking at the legality of coping miniatures one only has to take two things into account:

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The nature of a vast majority of gaming miniatures is the need to own multiple copies. In fact owning multiples of a miniature can make the miniature more valuable, not less. By buying 1 miniature (and it doesn't matter if it is OOP or not) and making multiple copies of it, one is affecting the potential market for that miniature. It doesn't matter if the copies change ownership or not. This also applies to derivative miniatures that are less then 3/4s different.

OK, Here is an excerpt from the Copyright Law of the UK.

>>>>>>BEGINS

link

Restricted acts
It is an offence to perform any of the following acts without the consent of the owner:

Copy the work.
Rent, lend or issue copies of the work to the public.
Perform, broadcast or show the work in public.
Adapt the work.

The author of a work, or a director of a film may also have certain moral rights:
The right to be identified as the author.
Right to object to derogatory treatment.

Acts that are allowed
Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree without infringing the work, these acts are:

Private and research study purposes.
Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.
Criticism and news reporting.
Incidental inclusion.
Copies and lending by librarians.
Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes.
Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as time shifting.
Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program.
Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society.
(Profit making organisations and individuals should obtain a license from the Performing Rights Society.)

link

8. It's OK to use copy or publish other peoples work if I don't make any money out of it
No, except in specific circumstances permitted under fair dealing/fair use rules, any copying or publication without the consent of the copyright owner is an infringement, and you could face legal action.
If the use has a financial impact on the author, (i.e. lost sales), then you could also face a claim for damages to reclaim lost revenue and royalties.

<<<<<<< ENDS

Taking all the above into account, your recasting even of out of print figures would seem to be an offence unless you obtain the permission of the copyright holder.

The Paradigm has to change.

I am just a bit ahead of the curve (not unusual.. I seem to have been there for my entire life). Not much fun out here sometimes… Ocassioanly, though, the view can make everything seem worth it to have just been able to see "the Sunrise" (metaphor) when it first occurs.

*yawn*
re-casting arseclown

Is it because you are incapable, or because you just want to stew in an emotional soup for a while?