"1/600 Questions" Topic

Okay yesterday I was trying to figure out whether to go 1/1200 or 1/600 for ACW Naval and I think I have finally settled on 1/600. The only thing holding me back is that Bay Area Yards ships don't come with masts. Does anyone make seperate masts for 1/600 ships? I really can't figure out why BAY doesn't provide masts, they seem to make everything else!

you can make them yourself out of metal wire from a hobby shop.

Unfortunatley I can't. I know it's supposed to be really easy but I didn't find it so.

Some of their model do come with the masts, it's the older ones that don't. There is a tutorial on their site about how to assemble masts, but obviously soldering tiny pieces of wire together at perfect angles will take some practice to get right. Taking the time to make a jig would help.

Thoroughbred and old Glory also make 1/600 scale ships.

There is another tutorial there on the BAY site for making masts a different way. Look at the "building the Gloire" tutorial.

Thanks. I read the building the Gloire article but it didn't really explain how the masts were done, just how they were detailed with string and paper and plastic card.

I take it that there isn't anyone making masts seperatley then?

I completed one mast.

Found it easier to paint a whole corps of napoleonic Austrians instead.

Found it easier to paint a whole corps of napoleonic Austrians instead.

If anything, I'd consider that possibly a mild understatement but then my soldering skills vary between none and likely to set self on fire.

Couldn't you just super glue the metal rather than soldering? Set the whole mess on wax paper and use a small drop of glue. Then, just scrape off any paper that sticks to the metal.

If the small size is really driving you crazy, you can always go 10mm (approx 1/160).

I went the styrene route over using the soldering gun. Using styrene rod, 1/4" 'tiled' sheet styrene and ABS cement I came up with some good looking masts for USS Congress and Cumberland.

Might be a little less than the full rigging, but good enough to get them on the game table.

Thoroughbred's 1/600 ACW naval models in this period come with masts in the kits…..always have, always will.

Rather than solder I use very fine wire pulled from old cable to bind/tie the yards to the masts first having gripped the mast in a small vice.I then apply a blob of super-glue and the jobs done.

It can be fiddly to start the binding process but I ususlly do a couple of turns on the mast to 'get a grip'

They now do mast packs and some of the models come with masts in the kit

After a almost perpetual search this affternoon and some bitter experience I can tell you what I "think" I know about Peter Pig 1/600. The New Ironsides (that was a nasty discovery I made when the package arrived), the mortar schooner, the Drewry and the the Fuchsia come with no masts. The Sassacus and the Hartford apparently do. I also know that the Selma does not come with the bars over the main deck house. The Ships boats and ships guns for changing configurations (Hartford to Richmond) come in seperate PP packs. This masts or no mast information seems highly priveledged. What is shown in pictures on the PP site may or may not be the case. There is a New Irosides there with masts in one club photo. Caveat emptor.

I have yet to get a full list of what is mastless. The Miami and AD vanhce are the cases at point. Most PP ships are river steamers and river ironclades. Side wheelers like the Gains and Morgan or 90 day gunboats are probably best purchased from somewhere else

As for Bay Area Yards propoganda, I've made metal masts. Since my ENT will only allow me to use white glue, epoxy outside and old "Duro Cement" outside there are a couple of weeks I won't get back. I am an assembler not a sratch builder, a game player not a craftsman. Langton's brass sails get replaced with paper and if necessary paperclip yards.

Friend, if you have all the pieces (!) white glue will hold metal masts to metal hulls and to resin hulls. It will also hold ships boats, turrets, and guns and cranes. It will hold yards to masts; you can tie with thread and glop on the paint if the slotting is poorly cast. Duco cement will do the same.

Finally Bay Area Yards will sell you masts. Paypal their site. They say Last Square has their products.

These are not little detailed models. They are wargaming pieces. IMHO the miniature manufacturers are trying to make this a rich man's hobby. The ship facsimilies are pricy enough without having to buy masts or manufacture them from special brass wire.

Oh I forgot. if you acn still see to paint without the old eyes difficuly, go 1/1200. Look at link
That's where the Houston's Civil War ships went. They always come with masts too. The scale is pretty regular with this group. They have fortifications too resin and metal.

Look a few postings up on this thread……my comment of 30 July two years ago still applies.
Toby Barrett

Thoroughbred does include mast with his ships. Unfortunately, he uses a very soft white metal that bends when someone breathes on it. Also, Thoroughbred are good GENERIC models. Very good. Still, expecially the River Gundboats, very very generic. Now, if you want complete accuracy, stretch your modeling and build a Bay Area Yards ship. I know Toby is committed to doing away with them and that is unfortunate. He will not even sell his guns separately for fear someone will put them on a BAY model. Kind of silly little boy stuff. Both have pluses and minuses and I do not see why they cannot co-exist.

winks:
You are mouthing off from a very unimformed position.
Bay Area sells guns and and you don't need mine. Accurate information on the configuration of a lot of gunboats on both sides simply doesn't exist – thus the generic nature of some of the Thoroughbred kits. If you think some of Bay Area gunboats are more accurate based on the flimsy historical records on some of these types of vessels then go for it and be happy. When our research is conclusive about a vessel we build very accurate models.
I don't want anythigng to do with Bay Area simply based on the fact that they were caught red-handed pirating my parts and placing them in some of their kits. If you would like to see a copy of the letter from Steve Taylor admitting as much along with his apology I can accomodate you.
Toby Barrett, Thoroughbred Figures

All I know is that I recently ordered a bunch of ships from Thoroughbred and am very pleased with them. Toby is a pleasure to deal with and the models came within days of my ordering. I would not say that the masts are flimsy at all, at least no more than I would expect at that scale. After reading a couple of books and searching the internet trying to figure out the layout of Civil War era warships I would say that Toby is exactly right- most of the information no longer exists. I don't know if Toby will sell his guns seperately or not but I will put that theory to the test with my next order. I got a model of the Sassacus off Ebay recently and it came missing a gun so I will need a replacement and maybe a couple different monitors. Who knows, perhaps I will throw in a "generic" gunboat or two to go with the couple I already have. Not trying to be a sockpuppet at all, I just think winks147 is off base in crowing about the accuracy and quality of Bay Area's products and slagging of Thouroughbred's offerings at the same time.

I have had the honor and priveledge of knowing Toby for almost 20 years. I have also put on games at conventions ranging from the East coast to the midwest with his products. Also at times I have run a booth for him at Little Wars, the Chicago area convention. The kits I display are those I have assembled and Yes I have at least one of each of all on his list. I can state that any model he produces that requires a mast has one. And as a war gamer with many paws not known to me using my ships I have had bent masts or loose guns. All easy to fix.( since they are of one piece((the masts)), not assembled, just bend them back) Toby's research on any model he presents is done to the best extant possible even to refusing at times to produce a ship that he feels he has insufficient material to correctly model. At my tables I have not had one unfavorable comment on any model that I have put on display and said this is such and such ship and someone has disputed that fact. Toby's models are the most accurate available for the price, which I feel is way to low for the product you are getting. And I might add if you have a model with a missing part let him know and it will be in the mail the next day. Also have you seen the new sternwheeler. Truly awesome.

I have shi[s from Peter Pig, Thoroughbred and BAY of the three Thoroughbred are overall the nicest. Peter Pig are a widely varried range, some are very nice, others not so. BAY are basic hulls and require a considerable amount of modeling to finish.

Scratchbuilding is also an option, and not as difficult you might think.

As for knowledge of what ships looked like, even primary source documents can be wrong. The H. L. Hunley being a prime example. The spar is wrong in the famous painting, and drawings made during the war showed the incorrect number of cranking stations and other errors.

It's wargaming, not museum replicas.

Well said Dave. Now that they have the actual Hunley to study I am sure that correct representations of it can be made.
Randy

I have around a dozen of the 1/600 Thoroughbred kits and really like them – they are a pleasure to build and have been very sturdy on the tabletop. I can't vouch for historical minutia but these are very good models and the service is top notch.

As for masts that bend when one breathes on them – haven't seen that problem. I've even huffed and puffed at levels that have been known devastate houses made of straw or even sticks and still no bent masts. All snarky comments aside, I do suggest that one use .020" brass rod for rigging models that see a lot of tabletop play – it's looks good but really does reinforce the more delicate parts.

I highly recommend Toby products. They integrate well with my 6mm ACW – I know the scales don't really match but it works for me.

There are some pictures of my completed models on my blog:

link

link

I can't vouch for the Bay Area kits.