"Why don't these sell?" Topic

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I need some help I've been stocking these ACW ships for a couple of years however I'e not sold a single one.

Ok I don't have many pictures, however I don't for the Napoleonic ships and they sell.

If I was going to sell "fleet" packs how many ships and what retail value would people expect?

I'm not all that sure there is still a market for ACW ships. if you want sales, you could run a game at one of the bigger cons to drum up interest.

Instead of fleet packs how about battle packs. Include all the ship for selected Civil War actions. Drop the price 10% overall on the battle packs.

I don't think there is much of a market for them anymore. The guys I know (and that is only a few) who game ACW naval already have nice collections (so the rest of us don't need to buy any). I think the battle packs coupled with some tourney games is a good idea. If you are just looking to be done with them, offer a steep discount.

Lack of awareness? I didn't know you did them… and I do a little ACW naval.

I don't think there has ever been a large market for ACW naval but things go in cycles and they may come back.

I bought a whole bunch of these ships (Navwar and Davco) in about 1990 and I have just sold them on eBay. Not because I don't like them but because I don't need them. When I go back to ACW I shall buy ships again, particularly riverine ships for use as part of a campaign.

The idea of doing a demo/participation game is a good suggestion. If you do a show battle pack with half a dozen ships per side, data sheets, a scenario, a set of simple rules and a painting guide, I think you could flog that for £12-£15 because it is a "pocket money" price. Once you have got some users out there with small collections, they may bring friends in, or buy more ships themselves.

The ships paint up easily. I like to mount them on card. You could do your show models on card and sell the bases as an option. BTW I know little about ACW ship colours but I would be surprised if they left the armour bare metal because it would rust.

Our local group does 1:600th ACW ironclads. Thoroughbred and Bay Area Yards have nearly all of the ships we could need and they are gorgeous ships. I do 1:1200 napoleonics, but I really like the detail of the 1:600 ACW

Matt

I'm a fairly new ACW naval gamer who is building his collection. Frankly, they are just too small for me. No table or shelf presence. The preferred scales are 1/600 (probably best size to game) and 10mm (best size to put on the mantle and still be able to game). The only reason I could see buying 1/1200 or smaller was if I had a very small place to play and/or I wanted to do a massive fleet action. Since 9/10th of all ACW actions are fairly small, #2 isn't going to come up often.

I do have an idea that may help. It seems to me they are about the correct size for board game tokens. Maybe you could make a hex board game that comes with a certain number of pieces. Then sell booster packs. It might be something that would appeal to the general audience. Similar to the Star Wars ship minis.

I would agree with doing the demo game idea. Find somebody in the US to do them as well. Offer battle packs ( here all all the ships needed for this battle plus a set of rules for X price) with a discount.

I like the idea of small scale because of the limited need for painting and the small space needed for storage and gaming. A painting guide would be useful to throw in as well.

I have many of these, but I got them direct from Navwar at various shows.

Naval is a small portion of the hobby, ACW naval is therefore a specilism within a specilism. I know quite a few people went for 1/600th when Peter Pig brought out a resin range, and in 1/1200th it could be that people go for the more detailed models from Langton. Although they are a lot more expensive most of the ACW ships are one offs, and you only need a few for a game.

Having said that I'm pretty happy with my Navwar ships.

I also think that the battle pack idea is pretty sound, a ruleset and half a dozen ships for each side should retail at an attractive price to someone thinking of getting into ACW naval.

I have a large collection of 1:600, Thoroughbred and Bay Area Yards. I'm slowly moving into 10mm. Those 1:1200 are just too small, imho.

I know a guy who owns a model shop around here, and who has done a lot of personal research on ACW naval combat, especially confederate submarines, in the Mobile Bay area. I'll bet he might find these interesting.

I think the interest in a certain historical period revolves around rules. New rules releases spark new life into a period and sometimes mfrs even make new products to support the rules.

Start running some games at conventions and see how that affects sales.

One reason is that most 1/1200 ACW gamers that I know have ditched all their Navwar and Skytrex models for Rod Langton's models instead.

There's just no way to predict what will sell and what won't. With my PaperTerrain business I've come up with products that I was dead cerain that any wargamer worth his salt would want and they haven't sold well at all. Other items which I thought there would only have been a modest demand for have sold really well. There's just no figuring it.

Scott Washburn
paperterrain.com

Perhaps you should get with a rules writer and package the ships in with a set of rules. Having them painted first would be an even bigger plus.

- Greg

Currently, the US dollar is performing very poorly against foreign currencies; even the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar. So buying from vendors outside the US makes little sense.

I've finished 32 of the 42 ACW ships I purchased at Historicon. They're from Navwar, Langton and TitanMMP. So there are a few of us left that are interested in Ironclads.

Maybe we need a set of rules where the author did some thinking outside the box that will inspire gamers to purchase ships.

In addition to ACW, try working up scenarios for the very bloody naval battles of the Great Paraguayan War (aka the War of the Triple Alliance). It was fought between Paraguay on one side against Uruguay, Argentina and the Empire of Brazil shortly after the ACW.

There was a rather large, and very enjoyable, 15mm naval battle played a few years ago at GenCon So Cal with ships we Americans would associate with ACW navies, but were representative of the South American naval equipment at the time.

Wyatt

Within the market that is ACW Naval, the introduction of 1/600 and even 10mm ships that are gorgeous (if pricey) has taken a piece away from the 'standard' 1/1200. The 1/2400 Panzerschiffe/Tumbling Dice stuff takes a smaller bite usually the folks playing a direct port of Yaquinto's Ironclads. What is left can get the drop dead gorgeous Langton 1/1200's for a very modest premium leaving a very reduced market residual for the Navwar/Skytrex models.

Having looked at various sites (Langton, BAY and Titan) that I was not aware of previously, I can see where McKinstry is coming from with his remarks.

If you are an enthusiast, the extra cost of Langton is justified for the quality.

I would go for the novice player and maximise your price advantage by making good value battle packs including about 12 ships, a scenario, a chart, a painting guide and a simple set of rules for £15.00 GBP Offer some more scenarios on your website, so people have a reason to come back, and they may buy more ships.

Do participation games at shows and you should find customers. Novice gamers like products that are fairly self-starting. £15.00 GBP is cheaper than a single squad for Warhammer 40K.

If you do a selection of packs you can tailor the contents to suit your stock levels.

Thanks everyone. I'll put together a few starter/battle packs and see if that changes things.

STREETLINE James … didn't know you did ACW naval. Line me up for a game next year, Dave.

Why stock a range (Any type) without local players who are playing that system?

1/600 ACW is popular in pockets of the country. With difficulty in getting Ironclads game which can be used as mini rules, the widespread interest did weaken.

>>Why stock a range (Any type) without local players who are playing that system?

He is a UK mail order seller and can deliver to nearly 60 million people overnight.

I think 1/600 is mainly a US scale.

Thanks Kilkrazy, that explains it.

Here's a variant of Victory at Sea by David Manley for ironclads that looks good. It should be very popular.

PDF link

The reason someone would want to buy 1/1200 or 1/2400 ACW ships, would be that they want to do the few fleet actions that took place.

Mobile Bay 1864 used just about every weapon used in ACW naval war. Only Houston's 1/1200 has all the ships and Stone Mounttain miniatures carries those and a nice model of Fort Morgan. Of course you have a couple of problems.

No one has done a scenario for their rule set, so you must have a Copy of Silverstone's _Warships of the Civil War_. Other wise you won't know that the Kearsage is the same class as four of Farragut's ships. Points like that are numerous. Also unless you want four Minnesota class Frigates with the four Hartford's you will need, you will have to try to get the owner to sell you special packs.

Of course, if you've played Ironclades by Yacinto (Old and Out of Print) you will realize that Mobile will require a lot of space at 1/1200. But if you are interested in 1/2400 you can only get some of the ships from Halmark. The ironclades have to be built from scratch and some of the other ships too. I can't do that in wood at less than 1/1800-2000. That means every thing has to be built except for the fort.

HI

IVe just ordered a few. Looking forward to getting them too. Order number 5003

Regards

Chris

I think the above are too small a scale for what is essentially naval skirmish. 1/600 scale allows ships to be better detailed and customised. Its a great period to fight naval peterpig.co.uk/range7.htm

Thread necromancy…

I didn't know 1/1200 scale ships existed. I have a limited budget and a limited playing area, so these would be great.

If only trans-Atlantic shipping weren't so high…

Then order them from me here:

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I have some pictures including some nicely painted ones for you to look at.