"Advice on Getting started with The Sword and the Flame" Topic

I'd really appreciate some advice on getting start with TSATF. I own the 20th anniversary edition (as well as an older edition) of the rules and I have heard many good things about them. I love the philosophy of the rules and have seen great battle reports. I've wanted to get started with them for years but haven't. I am finally considering taking the plunge. I have a couple of questions-

1- How many figures/units should one player handle, also what would reasonable forces be for the first couple of games if there are two players?

2- I think I'd like to start with the NW frontier but Pathans don't seem to be terribly common miniatures. Right now I am considering either Stone Mountain 15mm figs or possibly Old Glory 25mm. The Stone Mountain line isn't terribly complete but I really would like to try them, so I'd be interested in hearing about other 15mm lines suitable for the NW frontier. I believe irregular and minifigs might have some useful figs. The units sizes makes OG a little inconvenient but 25mm and old glory are not out of the running. I am also considering going somewhat old school and doing the Great Endeavors figs. I'd appreciate suggestions for figs in either scale for the NW frontier.

3- Of the core conflicts from the main rules which would you recommend as being the most interesting/fun for a first colonial period to try? If you find a period outside the "core" ones to be lots of fun please feel free to toss it in.

Thanks in advance for any help you folks can give.

Rich

Best advice: plunge in- they are great rules!

I'm sure opinions will vary wildly on this point, but you COULD run a small game with 3+ infantry and perhaps a gun or MG for the 'European' player, though it would obviously be situationally limited. Also, make sure you have the recommended ratio of imperial to native units (again, disputes rage on the correct ratio for various factions).

Zulu war seems to be more ignored, perhaps due to the need to paint up so many nearly identical zulus, and their lack of tactical options (no cav or guns, etc). I LOVE doing NW frontier, and the OG figs offer a nice 25mm selection, or if you want to go upmarket Foundry just started their annual HORDES sale, and I think they include a 'Hill Tribesmen' horde that can be used for Pathans. Obviously, I'm plugging 25/28mm, as I think it really gives a great feel to the game, especially as its semi-skirmish in many situations. The variety of troops on the NW frontier is wonderful- highlanders, bengal lancers, ghurkas, light cav, screw guns, etc.

From what I've seen the best way to spice up games is make them objective-driven, such as rescue personality X from Y location, relieve the fort, etc. Also, there is a deck of cards with random events floating around (not sure if TSATF people publish this or if its another company) that is great at injecting chance into things.

I'm using TSATF for the Boxer Rebellion, but if I branch out into another colonial era, it would be the Sudan: more variety, I think, then even the NW frontier.
My experience with TSATF is fairly recent. You might try a solo game or two first, to get the situational things down. One of the members of the Sword Flame egroup link put a neat flow-chart in the files section which makes the gameplay flow pretty nicely.
Have fun!

The Sword and the Flame is a great ruleset. I played them back in college with Ral Partha 25mm brits, Highlanders, Zulu, and Boers. Had a blast!

I bought some Ral Partha figs about 4 or 5 years ago for the battle of Tel El Kebir. I have all the units in the TOE of both Brit and Egyptians in TSATF unit sizes. I have not yet gotten to that project.

I may sell them off for any clubs or groups of colonial gamers. they are still packed away, have not been primed and are pristine from when I received them. They are about a $1,000 USD value that I would be willing to let go for about $650 USD plus $50 USD for Shipping and Handling (they weigh a lot, real lead and all). so a 30 percent savings at $700. USD I will be putting more information on my personal webpage when I have them photographed and inventoried and ready for sale. keep an eye on this link for more info: link

You expressed an interest in the NW Frontier.
I have Ral Partha figures. Get them from Great Endeavors. They are "true 25mm", and probably a mm or two smaller than that. The only figures compatible with them are Frontier and Minifigs. I don;t like the Minifigs all that much, anf I love Frontier. Frontier havs a weird availability. The current owner never answers emails, and often leaves them home when he goes to conventions, Good luck getting them. He has Afghan Regulars, which is a plus.

Foundry has Afghans. It is best to get them off eBay, or in a Horde deal. You will go mad tryinmg to assemble rational units of regulars this way, though. I have a bunch, and like them.

Old glory has NW Frontier Afghans, which I have not seen. Yiou can't beat the price.

Finally, Castaway Arts is now bringing out NW Frontier Afghans. I haven't seen them, but CA is a great comapny with fine figures. You can trust him.

Avoid Hinchliffe NW Frontier. The sculpting is old, and was lousy when they were new. The British on the other hand, are fine.

Finally, Bicorne has a nice looking range, from the web page pictures. I have nothing to compare size with, though.

I do NOT ever recommend buying rmies on the basis of "I like the rules, what army should I build?" I always think that love for the army should precede rules. However, in your case, you said you liked the NW Frontier, which is my favorite.

I suggest a starting scenario of 120 Afghans versus 80 British. Ideally, the Afghans should outnumber the British by 2:1, but such ideals come from familiarity with the rules. 60:40 would work to get a feel for them, though.

If you are going to go 25/28mm, you might want to look into joining the "Old GLory Army" to get the 40% off discounts. It will really help out when you first start – after buying about 4 packs you've covered the cost and the figs will work out to about.60 each. Hard to beat and you'll be able to build up a nice size force (as fast as you can paint them anyway!).

Dear RichardR,

Yes, take the advice here and just go for it! You won't be disappointed.

Since Alladin mentioned it, I wrote the TSATF Event Deck and sell it at TVAG. There are 20 each "British", "Native," and 8 "Universal Misery" cards. These are printed in full color on high quality, glossy card stock and must be cut out by the buyer. The events on each card are balanced for "good" and "bad" things to happen equally to each side, but not necessarily the same kinds of events. Most events are also affected by a random die roll to help establish the range or severity of the event. Consequently, no two games can ever really be the same.

That said, I would NOT recommend using the Event Deck until you've played two or three games of TSATF and have picked up the "rhythm" of the game--and that's easy as falling off a Gatling Gun Carriage.

The OFM's advice is particularly "on target" for the NWF and I encourage you to try it his way.

One other consideration you may take into account is the amount of playing space you have. TSATF simplifies ranges of weapons to the point that almost any space will do (though I'd propose that anything less than a 4' x 6' table pretty much kills the advantages of 25mm figs).

It is not necessary in TSATF to halve the ranges (weapons, movement) in 15mm, but it can be done quite profitably.

But the biggest problem you'll find--and I'm speaking from some 27 years experience--is that the game is so much fun, plays so quickly and cleanly, and that there are so many romantic units, troop types, uniforms, weapons, etc, that you will eventually find you can overload the system by making your games too big.

I mention this to you in the full confidence that you will do the proper thing--and ignore me and just collect like a giggling madman as the rest of us have.

Also, if you go to the TSATF business Website at sergeants3.com you will find at least one book of ready to play scenarios for the NWF, and these will go a long way to help you decide both the scale and number of figures you may want.

Similarly, long time fan and contributor to the game, Chuck Turnitsa, is assembling a new book of NWF Scenarios submitted by many gaming veterans of that theater that I hope may still be published before the end of the year.

And definitely go to link
and join the free Yahoo! Sword And The Flame Group moderated by Larry Brom and his daughter/partner, Lori. This is a very active site where you can ask any question and get an anwer from the author himself. You can also draw on the centuries of combined experience (no exageration!) by devotees of the game and its many variants. This should be a daily visit by you just to monitor "The Hive" and what's going on generally.

I almost envy the fun and discovery you're going to enjoy when you take the Queen's Shilling and follow Sergeant Brom off to The Grim.

TVAG

RichardR. I use Britannia's 28mm Highlanders for NW Frontier and Old Glory's Pathans just because you need a lot of them. I also pick periods to game that can cross over to other parts of the world. I use Britannia's Highlanders who carry Lee metfords for NW Frontier and use them for the Sudan 1896-1898 plus the Boer war of 1900. I use Perry Brother's British for the Sudan and for NW Frontier in the 1880's. I do this because the terrian and troops can all go togther at some point and time.

I also have a good deal of Essex figs from Britian in 28mm, they are very good figs and some of the figs the rifles come seperate so you have to glue them on after you are done painting the figure, which I happen to like. They have a good line of figs for the Sudan but the Brits would work well for the NW during the 1880's. Plus Askari miniatures has come out with Pathans in 28mm. The idea of the NW frontier is bloody fantastic. I have been reading a series by the author "Anthony Conway" his first book is called "The Viceroy's Captain" about a British Officer in the Gurkha rifles who goes on a mission in the hills. There are Pathans, Russians, mustard gas, machine guns the whole works and it takes place in the early 1920's, a great read and a great adventure in the NW Frontier, which I hope to war game in 28mm in the future. All in all you can't go wrong with the Sword and the Flame nor wargaming the NW frontier from the 1880's to the 1930's.

TVAG, Its a small world- thanks for kicking in about your event deck. I never had more fun than when I was cornered by natives in a NW frontier game and they ignored a 'wildfire' event and kept advancing, and a wind shift wiped out half the attackers- great stuff.

Hi, just a suggestion. Since you are just starting out I would start with half size units. 10 Infantry and 6 Cavalry per unit. This has the advantage of allowing you to play game more quickly. The size of units has no effect on the game.

Thanks,

John

I didn't mean that your games would play FASTER. Just that you would be able to run games sooner with more units ready.

Thanks,

John

I would recommend going 25mm for this since it is by far the most common scale for Colonial gamers and you will have an easier time finding other people to play against. But if you do decide on 15mm the Minifig range is very nice and Freikorp 15 makes a great range of Pathans as well.

I love TS&TF. We're having another game of it at the club this Tuesday night. While we've tried several combinations, I think the British in the Sudan give the best balance and variety of troops. Zulu's are great, but often tend to be a slaughter for one side or the other depending on how much terrain there is.
The 20th Anniv. Ed. of the rules has a points system. A good game can be had with 300 points, though we mainly play 500.
This gives about 6 British/allied units & 10 Dervish with a wide variety of infantry, cav, camels, guns, etc.
We use 15mm. Enjoy!

Well, I'll come in late to the party and chip in while I have a cup of tea and brush my pith helmet…

Sound advice from all here – you'd be hard pushed to find a naysayer about TSATF even amongst the notorious curmudgeons of TMP. Half size units is a good idea as John Leahy says esp. to get used to the rules. The rules fit any variation of later C19th or early C20th) warfare pretty much with a definite Hollywood feel. There are offical lists available for most theatres you can think of or you could just make your own. The rules are simple, as I'm sure you've seen, and are ideal for tweaking.

As for figs you can get a decent two player game with 2 units of Brits vs. 5 or 6 units of natives. OFM and the rules suggest roughly 2:1 Natives to Brits but I'd say approaching 3:1 is better. So you're looking at 100 native figs right off the bat. It's worth bearing in mind that each time you add a nice shiny new unit of Highlanders or something you need to paint 50 natives to keep the ratio playable. So 15mm might be a good option for you in terms of cost and painting effort – it depends on your budget and speed. OG would also be an excellent option if you are in the states and join the OG Army thing. The old Ral Partha figs work out about the same price as 15's but are true 25's and while handsome do NOT fit with 99.9% of other ranges as mentioned by the OFM.

Finally, as you will have noticed from the replies to your post, TSATF is enjoyed by the social upper crust of TMP and all its players are born gentlemen (or gentleladies).

Reducing unit sizes is generally a decent idea. However, be aware that this also necessitates modifications to the artillery rules and the "stragglers during charge" rules. If you halve the size of the units and number of stragglers, and somehow halve the number of casualties from artillery, things will work fine.

If I were you, however, I'd use full sized units for my first few games. A british unit of 10 in square formation just doesn't look as cool as does a unit of 20.

I did the Zulu War in 15mm. OG is an excellent choice for this. OG Zulus gome in married and unmarried sack-o-soldiers and 1879 British are really good. OG also has other British and natives to fill in the corners like the Natal Mounted Police. All in all, it's a very complete range and inexpensive to boot.

I really like Foundry 28mm figures. If I were to do it again, I think I would do it in 28mm. There are lots of 28mm figures of very high quality. Some have mentioned Ral Parthe. These are by far the best sculpts and are back in production. Beaware: they are true 25mm! However, for the NW frontier and Egypt the range is fairly complete.

Stick to the book sized units is my recommendation. It looks good on the table and is fun to play. Of course you may adjust unit sizes to reflect history sizes if you like.

I am currently painting boat loads of 1815 British Napoleonics at 30:1 which, using Buck Surdu's list in "Wellington RUles" gives me 20 figure foot, 24 figure Highland and Guard, and 18 figure mounted units. This is going to translate well into a TSATF Napoleonic with few, if any, rules changes.

But I digress, A 3:1 ratio is best. By the way, paint the back edge of the stands with different colors to indicate which unit they belong to otherwise things can get confusing.

One other tip which I picked up on TMP when I started with TSTATF – base your Brits on square bases and your natives on round. While this has no effect on gameplay it does mean that on the table it's easier to put the different sides in the "legal" formations as per the rules. The Brits square bases means its easier to put them in straight ranks and the native's round bases means they bunch up in "mass" formation more easily.

Only an aesthetic consideration but worth thinking about I'd say.

TSATF Hints

1. Moving masses can be very easy and quick. Measure the distance for the foremost figure and last. Move those two and just put everything else between.

2. Place all figures that on square bases including natives. Remember that you have to measure the arc for firing and they are easier to line up for melee.

3. Paint the back edge of bases different colors so you can tell units apart. (another reason to have square bases).

Anybody want to add to the list?

4) Get some cheap plywood slats from the walMart craft department. Gut some bass 1/4" square stock into "railings" to go around the front and sides. Spray with Krylon Khaki Campflage paint and shake some flocking on it.
VOILA! Movement trays that hold a 20 man platoon of my Ral Partha British regulars in double line. Turn them 90 degrees, and it becopmes a column movement tray..

I went overboard on the Sudan. Way too many figures unless I am putting on a game at a convention. But it is a good period to start with. Both sides have rifles, cannon, cavalry and camel units. Now for the little things I have learned over the years.

1. Movement trays will make it easier to handle 20 figures. All movement in my games are on movement trays until units come into contact.

2. Units that can form into regular formations are on square bases and irregulars on round. I also mount my leaders for both sides on either hexagonal or octagonal bases, just to make it easier for players to find the leaders.

3. Be flexible with the rules, remember it is a game and the objective is to have fun. If a player wants to do something think about and decide if it sounds like something from Gunga Din or the 4 feathers movies. Remember this is Hollywood and not 3rd edition Empire.

4. Get the Colonial Skirmish books. They are excellent. Unit size is 8 foot and 6 cavalry. Really opens up the table and makes games go quicker.

5. Old Glory figures are great for building up large numbers of figures. I mix mine with Castaway Arts for units not covered by Old Glory.

6. FFL vs North Africans always seem to be close and fun. Dont know why but have never had a bad game at a con when the FFL is on the board.

7. Dont paint up just British regulars. Paint up the colonial units, be they Egyptian, South African Mounted Constabalry, or that friendly native unit. Its always alot funnier to boast about that lone Indian Sowar who single handedly saved your right flank, then how Lt Broomhandle slaughtered 20 unarmed natives while they fled.

8. Go with the wife when she hits the hobby craft stores and fabric stores. You will see things in a new light. You will find uses for all sorts of things in your games.

My advice regarding TSATF – stop before you start! Really! I know it is counter to everyone's opinion here but I've played the rules quite a few times and they work but they have so many tactical holes in them that they just don't sustain interest for me or any of the several groups I've played with over twenty plus years – though colonials only make brief, transitory appearance. This is too bad because the covered periods are so colorful. Yes, go with colonial gaming, but find a better set of rules, keep them simple but at least allow for flank effects (the key to successfully winning almost any battle throughout history) and avoid figure by figure melee. Bloody freaking BORING!

That said, 15 mm has plenty of choice. I have a huge Anglo-Egyptian Sudan set up, ditto for French Foreign Legion. I think latter is probably best colonial period because both sides are more evenly matched.

Perhaps the biggest challenge is scenario design.

One last comment, whether you settle on TSATF or not, check Major General Tremorden Reddering (google it) best damn wargaming site ever put up on the net.

Good luck!

Obviously I disagree.

Excerpt from the introduction to the 20th anniversary edition of "The Sword and the Flame" by Larry Brom"

"Throughout this booklet you will find deviations from, and simplifications of, historical facts and figures. Remember, what we are trying to create is a playable, fun-filled, entertaining game that will capture the flavor, to a reasonable degree, of those stirring 'Days of Wmpire' on a tabletop."

I'm not sure how rules can have "tactical holes". What you probably mean is that the rules mechanics don't support what you want to do tactically on the tabletop.

With just a little practice the figure-by-figure melee goes very quickly and can be quite exciting. Many is the time when we've recounted the time the Colour Sergeant of 24th of Foot took an almost an entire iviyo with him before he fell! Hurrah, sir! I say, Hurrah!

To each his own, sir. For me, "The Sword and the Flame" does a fine job of capturing the romantic cinematic flavor of the by-gone days of Empire!

I have a friend who really hates it when his charging unit fails morale and has to retreat and go prone. I keep trying to tell him to just imagine it is a unit going to ground after taking too much fire. The funny thing is he right back there the next weekend playing the game again. Once you play the game you cant stop playing. It is so simple and fun. Best game ever to run as a GM.

Some of my most hilarious ever reverses have occurred with SATF. I've never had the need to try another set – and they are about as close to a universally accepted rule set as there is – just check the game roster at any of the big wargame conventions.

That said, I have used both square and round bases for SATF. The square bases just don't feel right to me for these games. I like the round ones better, even when it makes it more difficult to tidy up the firing line.

Rick

One way to get a quicker start is to reduce unit size (as has been mentioned). Towards this end, you should acquire Mark Fastaso's variant, which uses 8 man units. You can find the details his modifications that suit the smaller scale by downloading the Dabormida's Brigade Pdf at the following site:

link

You might also want to look at the Jackson Gamer's Homepage for inspiration on NWF (it worked for me). Specifically, their battle reports on their NWF campaign (scroll down to the "Major Divisions" area and click on the "Campaigns"; also there are good game reports in the "Colonial" era there):

link

I second the recommendation for Ral Parthas. If you're interested in NWF, they have all you really need, short of Afghan Regulars. My collection is entirely Ral Partha, with a few Minifig English Command figs thrown in (they are a bit chunkier than Ral Partha, but work as special figs in moderation).

Best,
Ed M

I second the recommendation on Mark Fastoso's Colonial Skirmish books. I play the Ethiopian scenarios with Arabs and Foreign Legion and it works just fine. I really like the smaller units, because instead of one big battle, you really do have action on the left flank, center and right flank, and you will be tactically challenged. The Mexican adventure scenarios are also excellent.

There are lots of home variations of TSATF and one I like is the ability to give a unit a "hold" order when that side's card is shown. That allows it to fire at any point in the turn (opportunity fire) and avoids the situation where a unit which has already fired is kind of a sitting duck.

Another thing I do is use two decks – one for movement and one for fire. That way, if the Ace of Hearts shows as a move card, you can't game the system now you know your leader is safe for a while. I also reshuffle the fire deck after every turn.

Sir
It is clear that if one looks for the social elite one would naturally find them playing that most excellent game TSATF. The truly elite would be found using Ral partha figures from Great Endeavors. For the reason that they don't fit in with masses except on rare occasions. I love the era
the romance the pure fun IM building NWF,Sudan,Boxer and zulu armies psssssssst just bought the heroes and villains of Gunga Din Packs from Scale Creep Miniatures. All I can say is if your looking for fun and a totally positive gaming experience your can't go wrong with TSATF.

TSATF is simply the way to go for two reasons! It is ,by far, the simplest set of beginners rules for Colonial gaming you can find and does not require a lot of investment to get going. It is also wide open to much local "tweaking" to suit personal tastes!

If you fall in love with this period and these rules, you will likely find that your investment, over time, in figures will be dwarfed (not PC?) by your accumulation of terrain, buildings, wagons, equipment, TRAINS, and such!

As to which conflict to choose, your personal preference is most important of course. The Sudan is a decent match for classic set piece type battles. NW frontier is more terrain and scenario driven. Zulu War is a tough one IMHO unless the Imperial forces can somehow be less than marginally led! 1st Boer War is pretty good, 2nd Boer War less fun for color and probably also needs to be scenario driven. Boxer Rebellion has so much variety in uniforms and Troop types to choose from that makes it so appealing!! Just some personal views for you to consider. Good luck, and remember to first of all suit yourself as to what is best!!