"Suggestions On Making Helmets???" Topic

By changing the helmets, I want to make these Thunderbolt Mountain (Tom Meier) Orcs/Goblins . . .

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To look more like these . . .

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QUESTION: Any suggestions on how to sculpt helmets like those in the Angus images?

Thanks.

CC

The horns I'm not too worried about. It is the shape of the helmets that confuses me.

Some look leaf-like on the sides, while some look Nazi-like.

I would love to be able to do both.

CC

The first one sorta looks like a Carolingian Frank Heavy Cavalry helmet. I don't know if it would be worth getting some and actually chopping the helmet off and replacing it.

Rob

Mix magic sculp and green stuff to equal amounts (or use brown stuff)
Spread it out over the heads of your figures and get the basic shape right
file and scrape for sharpness after curing.

Don't really understand the question I'm afraid? Those seem like very simple helmets to sculpt. If you fail at your first attempt it's quite easy to remove from the pewter figure and try again.

Good luck.

"Those seem like very simple helmets to sculpt."

I've never tried it, and I didn't know if there was a way to keep them from looking like globs instead of helmets.

Thanks for the pointers.

CC

Dive in. There a a bunch of tricks you'll pick up as you go. If it looks like a glob… you're just not done yet!

I'll give it a shot then. Thanks guys.

CC

Ok. As you can tell from these close-up photos, it is easier said than done.

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I may try to salvage them, but I am not entirely happy with the results so far.

CC

OK… don't try and do the actual Helmets by hand by making a conical lump of green-stuff/kneedtight and then scraping, pushing, filing etc…

First, Find a suitable helmet from which to begin.

Then, take a tube of plastic with one end open to a depth of about 1/4" (this may mean using a longer bit of plastic tubing, and blocking it off at a depth of 1/4". Then, put a small amount of Green-stuff/Kneedtight mixture into the end of this thing, and push it down in the helmet that you want to duplicate (POINT!!! Make sure that you coat the helmet with a little bit of baby-oil or vasoline first to keep the epoxy from sticking to it.

When you have done this, leave it to set, being VERY careful to not distrub it, as this will distort the negative image on the inside of the tubing.

After it is set, pull it off of the mini that you used as a "Model". Trimming the edges of the tube where the putty squeezed out is a good idea, and filing down the tubing to the inside lip of the helmet is also a good idea (this will help you to form the lip/rim of the helmet better).

Then, you find yourself a mini that you want to put this new helmet on, file-down or chop-off the helmet that is on it, and place a small lump of epoxy putty on its head, and push the "mold" down on top of it *(See Note below) until the putty begins to squish out the side of the "mold". It is usually a good idea at this point to trim this stuff off, but you will need to be careful to keep from distorting your casting…

Now… anyone who gets uptight about "Piracy"… this is NOT piracy and falls well under the "Fair Use" clause on at least two counts (Personal use, and overall modification of a majority of a derivative work).

Oh… After it has set, then it is easier to go back and add details like horns or rivets (Rivets can be done in a similar manner. Just drill out the end of a tube of the right diameter, press it down over a small peice of epoxy, trim off the excess, and then file the "nub" flat when set…

* You may also want to drill a small hole through the very top of your "mold" to allow air to escape and give you a better casting

BTW…

CC,

Have you noticed that in the command pack of TM Orcs, the Drum's head/skin is the hide of some poor human, whose arms are still attached, and the face is hanging down to the front…

I love touches like that on TM's figures.

Judas,

I understand the duplication process you describe. It is very similar to what I was planning on doing next.

However, the main problem is that, short of making my own original "model", I could not find any suitable examples of the helmets in the links provided in the first post.

Any pointers on that?

Many thanks.

CC

As you can see from this other thread from March/April, I've been trying for quite a while now:

TMP link

Even so, I'm still not getting the prototype quite right. Very discouraging.

CC

The "sallet" with the visor is too narrow. It should flare out too (look at the orc at the bottom of the illustration): picture

Man, I wish these had been done in 28mm, and that TM had done them:

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The right helmets and lamellar/lorica, but the wrong size.
:(

CC

Wow Cacique Caribe, don't do them separate. whenever I'm doing a new helmet, I do them right on the head. Just get the basic shape as well as you can, then you can clean it up and fine tune with a knife and some sandpaper after it dries. One of those multi-blade craft knives they sell in the little wooden box is a good investment, a Dremel or knock off is a better one. Also, I find those sanding tools they sell in the model car aisle useful. It's like a stick with a ribbon of sandpaper running around it, a tiny sanding block for minis!

Duck C.,

That is basically what I described doing, except there is much LESS work involved in shaping and smoothing (You just stamp the clay with a mold of the right shape, and trim around the edges)…

BTW…

CC,

Have you taken a look at the Zveda 28mm Orcs. They are nearly dead-on for the Angus McBribe Orc paintings (They even have a "Hot-Orc-Chick", as to what a Hot-Orc-Chick is doing hanging out with some backside-ugly orcs??? I have not a clue, but at least it gives you an idea of where they get new Orcs from)…

I am not sure if they have a US distributor, but they seem to be releasing a line that is SHOCKINGLY similar to the GW LotR line (Called… wait for it… "Ring of Rule"… Hmmm? Any similarity there either???). In any event, their elves are gorgeous, and they even have some Elven cavalry (Except it is mostly girl-Elves, and they are riding pegasae. So, I will probably just get the riders, shave off their and get GW horses to mount them atop)…

In any event… Check them out. I am waiting for them to do some Dwarves, as I will probably buy them instead of the GW LotR dwarves (at first, then sell a bunch of them and buy some GW LotR Dwarves too)

OK. With the "stamp" suggestion in mind for when I do start making copies, I have gone ahead and attempted to salvage the original two prototypes:

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Once I am finally satisfied with a master of the helmets, I will make a mould of them (helmets only, not the dummy heads), so that I can duplicate the shells.

I know I still have far to go. However, please let me know what you think of them so far.

Thanks.

CC

Not bad. Good, smooth shape and they look regular and even. Have to see them actually on the head you're going to put them on to say any more than that.

You can get Zvezda here:

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They ship international and have the best selection I've been able to find online.

I think you're most definitely getting there with the last picture. Patience, patience. You have made it harder on your self by not doing them directly on the heads of your figures but I think you should proceed with these ones. They're definitely getting there.
And even if it feels like you've been doing it for ages really you haven't. You first posted your question what? One month, one and a half ago. That's NOT a long time to learn an entirely new technique. Give it another month and you'll suddenly find making other helmets dead easy.

As for making stamps/moulds: It's not piracy if for personal use. What it IS though is laziness and the road that all to easily LEADS to piracy.
First baby steps on the "Dark path" so to speak ;-). For my self I prefer a very strict rule of not borrowing a single detail EVER from any other persons work and if I use a pattern or detail from a drawing I ALLWAYS personally contact the artist first (Usually they reply with a baffled "sure you can use it I didn't invent it"). Not because I'm "uptight" about it but because I prefer learning how to do stuff properly myself to taking easy short cuts and I also prefer being polite to fellow artists.

You're on the right track. Congratulations on taking the long "Light path" :-)

Using a liquid latex mould as a "stamp", I cast these "helmet shells" out of GreenStuff:

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This is what they looked like straight out of the mould. They have not been trimmed or corrected in any way . . . yet.

Once trimmed, they will be "pressed" down on Orc heads, using a bit of Greenstuff as adhesive/filler.

So, how am I doing so far?

CC

Looks good to me, at least as a 'blank'. A question: Are you going to add the spikes/horns after you affix them to the heads? If so, you really should let them sit for a full twenty-four hours before you do, depending on the method you plan to use to affix them.

"Are you going to add the spikes/horns after you affix them to the heads?"

That was what I was planning, so as not to damage them when I'm seating the helmets.

I've never really done rivets or added horns to a putty helmet before.

Any suggestions?

CC

OK… I should have been a little clearer when mentioning to use a "Stamp"…

"Molds" are made out of things like Liquid Latex, Rubber, silicon…

"Stamps" are made out of Metal, Hard PLastics, Resins, etc…

"Molds" are deformable so that a liquid casting media can get into the corners, and Items cast in them can have detailed back-cuts.

"Stamps" are made so that you can use a hard, and relatively non-pliant materia of a "form" to create something…

"Stamp" is essentially another word for a type of tool-die…

Think of making coins when you make something with a stamp…

"Stamps" are used more often to create works that have a hard-straight edge to them.

"Molds" are generally preferred when you have an organic shape (Organic metal shapes usually fall into the former category even though they might be "Organic" in appearance.

Now, about doing rivets…

Make yourself a long peice of green-stuff (Shaped like a rod, string, etc), making sure that it is relatively round in profile/cross-section. It's diameter should be the same as the rivets that you want to make.

Let it cure.

Then, get a drill bit that is the same diameter as the resin "rod" and drill holes where you want the rivets. Insert the rod (using something to make it "Stick" without it spilling over onto the adjacent area around the rivet – this is a difficult part, as it is really hard to get just a tiny drop of glue on the end of the rod) and then cut it off about 1/32" above the surface of the object in which it was placed… Repeat until all rivets have been attached.

Then, just go back and file them down to the correct height.

Oooo, Judas. I have to give that a try!!!

Thanks.

CC

I use a similar technique to do horns/spikes, only instead of letting my 'string' cure right away, first I pull bits off and roll them into the shape I want. You can get some really freaky looking horns by just stretching and twisting it until the green stuff breaks.

I've almost given up on this. Almost.

However, if I ever do give up, I may go with simply gluing something like this instead:

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CC