"MAXIMUM Hill Angle To Prevent 28mm Figures From Falling?" Topic

When I finally get home, I plan to continue on my Iberian hillfort and other hill-type terrain pieces I have left half finished for too long.

To keep 28mm infantry figures on 20mm and 25mm bases from falling over due to a steep angle, what is typically the maximum safe angle to use when contouring a hill?

Thanks!

CC

Another equally important thing is the angle to prevent them from sliding down. It has to be pretty gentle, 45 degrees is way too steep.

Unless you are covering it with magnet and the figs have steel bases.

Geo-Hex had the angle about right. Perhaps some one who still has the stuff could chime in.

"prevent them from sliding down"

I plan to remedy this by using plenty of texturing of the surface.

I agree, 45 degrees is way too steep. How about an incline of half of that?

CC

Factors that affect this are not only the angle but also the centre of gravity of the figure, the coefficient of friction between the figure's base and the hill slope and the weight of the figure.

The CG must remain within the area of the figure's base. As the angle of the slope increases, there will come a point where this is no longer the case and the figure will topple over.

Provided the figure does not topple over, then the coefficient of friction must be great enough to stop the figure sliding down the slope. Clearly if the surfaces are smooth then the coefficient of friction will be lower and sliding will occur at a shallower angle. So to reduce or eliminate sliding the figures base and the hill slope should be rougher. Texturing may or may not increase the roughness of the slope. If texturing has the effect of reducing the surface area of contact between the base and the slope then the coefficient of friction will be less and the figure will be more inclined to slide than on a non-textured slope.

The heavier a figure is the more it will slide on a given slope. Plastic figures are thus better at staying put on slopes than metal ones.

So, it is not really possible to quote a single slope angle as being a "maiximum safe angle".

Mike, suggestions then?

CC

In the absence of a theoretical solution to the problem you will basically need to experiment to find what works for you. This will depend on:
- the structure and surface of your hills
- the size of your figures (6mm figures are better on slopes than bigger ones)
- whether the figures are metal or plastic
- the size of the base
- the material you use for the bases
- whether the underside of the base is treated in any way.

If you find the figures slide, then you could make the underside of the base rougher in some way – stick on sandpaper or something similar. At the (impractical) extreme you could use Velcro – the figures would probably stand up on ridiculously steep slopes then!

As Pictors suggested, 45 degrees is too steep – in real life a civil engineer would consider a 45 degree slope to be too steep to walk on. A rule of thumb might be to say the maximum slope angle should be about 30 degrees, but bear in mind all the caveats above.

I use Kallistra's Hexon II terrain (ready flocked). I find that my 15mm figures are generally OK on the Hexon II hills, and so are 20mm plastics, but I think 25mm metal figures might be a problem (not tried the last).

Mike: "A rule of thumb might be to say the maximum slope angle should be about 30 degrees"

Thanks. I was hoping it would not be as bad as 20 degrees, or else the hill's footprint would have ended up humungous.

CC
PS. "but bear in mind all the caveats above." You must be fun to have at meetings. :)

Another consideration is the era the army represents, because you can monkey with the bottoms of the bases to show the varying ability of different armies. I know that as an Army Ranger not climbing a 65 degree slope would be whimpy at best, while an army from the Age of Reason would look at a 30 degree hill as almost unassailable.

Overall I would have to agree with Shakespere "The plays the thing."

Multi-based figures are more stable on slopes than single based figures.
Basing on metal bases helpes stability; GW bases are light and nasty and don't help at all.
Plastic figures are much stabler than metal – if based on metal bases they will stand up on quite steep slopes.

Just for info: Kallistra ( kallistra.co.uk ) do an 'anti-slip' base backing self sticky sheet that's supposed to prevent slippage, even on 'extreme' slopes. I haven't tried it yet myself – but the pictures look impressive!

Some people put dice under movement trays to get their WHFB figures to stay on layered hills.

Building on that idea, you might make some wedges from scouring pads or some other high-friction material, and temporarily put your figures on those.

The effect would be that of individual, base-sized steps that move with each figure or stand, keeping it more or less level, despite being on a slope.

Of course, square (and round) basing would mean that the same wedges could be used, regardless of the figure's facing relative to the slope.

Rectangular bases would require at least two sizes of wedge, one for when the base is across the slope, and another for when it is along the slope.

Mount Badon as I constructed it for Historicon had angles not much less than 45 degrees. My units are mounted on 40x40 bases but then put on 120x40 unit trays. Also, the slope was somewhat uneven and pretty well grassed. I had a little problem with trays sliding down but mostly they stayed put. I was as concerened as you about the hill's "footprint"; I wanted as tall as possible, but it had to fit in my vehicle.

So I'll echo the obove comments that larger trays and rough surfaces matter.

I should add that my minis are 15mm.

I never build any terrain with more then about a 30* slope. Big Round Top I had to double the Contour interval inorder to represent the elevation. It looks about 1/4 of the height it should but I do advise the players that each rise in elevation counts as double.
VR
James Mattes

I don't understand why this is being discussed in such rigid terms, as in the bases you have are the bases you have to work around.

The light and nasty GW bases everybody is condemning as being useless on slopes, are actually MORE versatile than solid bases of any kind! Reason is simple. GW slot bases are hollow underneath!! You can pack the hollow area with bits of metal cut-offs from other minis sprues, gravel, small stones, or modelling putty. This will weigh them down as effectively as any metal base will.

I have GW plastic regiments with the bases weighed down with modelling putty underneath, and you can stand them on a steep a slope as you want. The figures themselves being plastic and light, there's no way a plastic figure can tip over with a base that outweighs it by ten times.

The GW base design is VERY useful for tall figures like giants, or large winged creatures or creatures with long arms, legs or tails! You can pack the underside of those bases with a few small stones, or wall filler or plaster even, anything to fill up and weigh that area. It is also VERY useful for man-sized figures carrying banners that cause imbalance, like when the banners are leaning really far forward off the base.

Just wanted to point out to everybody that GW bases do not doom you to having to worry about slope limitations and miniatures tipping over. Far from it!

Mike

I consider weighing down bases as much a part of the modelling process as pinning or using the right glue for minis. And the GW base makes it possible. It's a very well thought out thing if you ask me, not everything GW does is evil! You gotta give them credit on this one. They even have suggestions on weighing bases in their latest editions of their rulebooks.

@LB: Good points, but who likes rebasing? For all that we know, CC has already based his armies, or simply does not like the plinth look …

Small washers, old coins, and small nuts also work excellently for weighting GW bases.

Ok. I may be building hills again in the not too distant future . . .

Vojvoda: "I never build any terrain with more then about a 30* slope"

QUESTION:

How do you guys make sure that your slope never exceeds that angle (or whichever angle you feel is the limit)?

Thanks.

CC