"7YW: French Horse" Topic

Tried website but no info, or I missed it. Is there a show at Crystal Palace this year – if so, when? Thanks

As I mentioned in a couple of posts I'm painting some Baccus minis 7YW armies. One thing which has me stumped are references to 'French Horse'.

I have plates and info for Hussars and Dragoons. But nothing for horse. Unfortunately there are six regiments of horse to these armies. So I need to find them.

Can anyone enlighten me as to their uniforms or point me at a plate? So far I can't find anything.

Hmm bug is back then.

Marc details of the show are here selwg.com/selwg05.html

Try this site – in French but the plates are good (and numerous)
link

Thanks. I think I found the French Horse on the site you linked here

link

Cheers

Neil

French SYW horse were called Chevauxleger. You might think from the name they were light horse. They were lighter than the heavily armored gendarmes of yore, perhaps, but heavy cavalry all the same.

You can have a variety of colours for the coats of the French Horse: red, white and blue all being used. I don't envy you doing the saddlecloth lace in that diddly scale though! :-)

LOL – doing lace on anything smaller than 15mm is something only those with insane amounts of patience, steady hands, and a stockpile of swear words would do!

And in the field most of the units didn't wear the breastplates illustrated under the coats (except for the Cuirassiers du Roi with the full back and front worn over the coat).

And in the field most of the units didn't wear the breastplates illustrated under the coats (except for the Cuirassiers du Roi with the full back and front worn over the coat).

I might beg to differ on this point. Our group has discussed this back and forth and came to the conclusion that the French Horse regiments (i.e. they look like heavy dragoons in other countries' establishments – Austria, Britain, Prussia, Russia, etc)were allocated front breast plates which were worn underneath the coat, as per the current cavalry regulations.

Some of the first hand accounts of Rossbach mention the numerous French cuirasses that were laying in the roads when they were discarded by the retreating French army.

Answering the original question, "French Horse" are the heavy cavalry. They look like heavy dragoons in the Austrian, Prussian and Russian armies, or the British Regiments of Horse.

They may or may not have worn cuirasses, depending on your point of view. I would rather that they didn't, but my regular opponent insists on having all of his Horse wear cuirasses, much to my chagrin.

Not that anyone will be able to see the cuirasses in 6mm

The term "horse" for French cavalry in the Seven Years War is somewhat anachronistic, as it dated from when "heavy cavalry" were gends d'armes in plate armour – by the SYW, "horse" in French usage referred to what most other countries called
"heavy cavalry". Further to the point Fritz makes, while French horse were all issued with a cuirass, not all wore it – indeed, by the end of the SYW it was almost an exception except, as noted, for elite units like the Cuirassiers du Roi

This is expanding the terms of the thread somewhat; for which apologies. In my view the use or otherwise of the plastron cuirass by the French Chevaux-Legers ('horse') should have no more wargames effect than that of the larger and more powerful horses ridden by British and Hanoverian Horse and Dragoons.
Its a real thing of mine that that so many rules (GDB being an honourable exception) give no proper recognition to the quality of horseflesh, but ascribe very significant efects to the wearing of armour.

Seneffe: Maybe in an unintended way, the rules writers are taking the quality of the horses, or at least their relative sizes, into effect, if for example, a cuirassier or heavy dragoon has better melee modifiers than a hussar, then maybe the end result is realistic.

The modifiers may have been done for all the wrong reasons, but perhaps they inadvertantly get the end result right. Just a thought, nothing to base my conclusion on.

In the French Army during the 16th and early 17th centuries, there was two cavalry corps.

The "Gens d'Armes" that was an armoured cavalry or heavy cavalry, very expensive, and reserved to the nobility. The name became later Gendarmerie. It was the elite of the cavalry. Associated to the Gens'Armes some companies of Chevaux-Légers were created, they was slightly armoured.
(Don't translate Cavalerie Légère to Chevaux-Legers it was different ! ooh French language !)

The "Cavalerie Légère" was the light cavalry for common birth without helmet or cuirass…

With the revolution of the musket and later the rifle, the armoured cavalry disappeared. In the middle of the 17th century of the difference between Gendarmes, Chevaux Légers and Cavalerie Légère disappeared.

But!!!
The Gendarmes and there associated companies of Chevaux Légers continued to be the Heavy Cavalry, the elite of the cavalry, reserved to the nobility.

And the other regiments continued to be the Cavalerie Légère.

In theory the Gendarmes and Chevaux Légers had to wear a complete cuirass (as the cuirassier du Roi of the Cavalerie Légere)

For the regiment of the Cavalerie Légères, officers had to wear a cuirass and the man a plastron (breast plate).
Did they charge only with the buffle and the breast plate as for the Prussian cavalry or with breast plate over their coats.
I don't know, so I sculpt both !

Regards

Der Alte Fritz, many thanks for a well considered post as always.
I am trying to create some granularity between the representatives of the French line/heavy cavalry of the C18th and their primary opponents. I think many will agree that giving Anglo-Hanoverian cavalry a factor against French line cavalry, is valid on the wargames table, regardless of armour.

Seneffe: By what reasoning would you give the Anglo-Hanoverian cavalry a factor against the French line cavalry?

The size and power of their horses. Nothing at all wrong with French horses, but both the UK and particularly Hanover were real centres of horse breeding excellence, and had relatively small mounted arms, enabling the regiments to be very choosy.
Also the fact that they had a good simple tactical doctrine which they generally stuck to- charge at a fast trot (maybe even breaking into a gallop a few yards before contact) with no pistols until melee/pursuit. The French cavalry on the other hand still tried to combine firepower and shock action in a way which made the best of neither.