"FMA Skirmish: Status?" Topic

So what's the latest on FMA Skirmish? Aside from "ooh, it's really cool, but I can't talk about it."

It's only been in the pipeline since, oh, forever.

Not forever. Just 10-11 years.

WPF

"When Pigs Fly"

oink!

Just find somebody with Con rules, and get a copy.
-Kle.

Easier said than done.

Do you have a copy?

I believe FMA Skirmish is officially vapor ware. : )

That said, if anyone has a playtest copy they are willing to share I would love a copy of FMA Skirmish.

I had a set of the playtest rules from six years ago, but I would be hard pressed to lay my hands on them now. I think they were in the PC that got hit by lightning. : (

What does "FMA" stand for?

Full Metal Anorak which is the name of the basic rules that Ground Zero Games uses.

I'd been awaiting these for a while… with no real faith I'd ever see them.
Since then I've moved on…

I actually played a few rounds with a GZG play tester and it was great fun. I especially liked the dice mechanics. Alas I have lost contact with this play tester.

"That said, if anyone has a playtest copy they are willing to share I would love a copy of FMA Skirmish."

I am a playtester, howvever I'm sorry but we are not allowed to do that in order to protect Jon's IP.

That said, probably the easiest way to get hold of FMA is to apply to join the playtest list.

Good luck with that. I've been putting on FMA Skirmish games at the ECC for several years, and I emailed Jon to get copy of the latest & greatest, but never heard back. It's a great system which I really like, but it is frustrating that it has been languishing in playtest for so long and will probably never be released. It makes it difficult to recruit other players when the "beta" is closed / unavailable, a 7(?) year old "alpha" from the gzg-l is all that's legitimately had, and the system will most likely never see light of day (publicly).

Perhaps this might help?

link

A little Googling usually finds what you want …

Mike, while I appreciate the effort, what exactly is that? That looks more like a reference sheet than a playable set of rules to me.

That is some additions to the playtest rules publicly released in '99.

I emailed Jon to get copy of the latest & greatest, but never heard back.

Yep, me too.

Maybe Bugs Dont Surf will come out first ? :)

I will put my money on Duke Nukem Forever. ; )

That is some additions to the playtest rules publicly released in '99.

They are changes / additions to the 2004 "beta" rules which are not available. Note e.g. the use of Stress and Nerve (beta) instead of Suppression and Motivation (alpha). Also, group activation / leadership points, etc.

I'm feeling the urge to cross-breed FMAS with Savage Showdown…

They are changes / additions to the 2004 "beta" rules which are not available.

…sigh… and we are back where we started.

I suppose I'd better answer this, even if it does open a huge can of worms…. ;-)

Yes, FMA(S) exists, in various forms.
Yes, it's been sort of "under development" pretty much since I published Stargrunt II, which is just over 10 years ago.
Yes, I do PLAN to finish it (or at least get it to a web-publishable stage) at some point.
No, I don't know when that time will be.
There are (as has been mentioned) various versions of the system posted in various places, some public and some limited access; most of these versions are fragmentary and incomplete, some contain ideas which have only seen very limited playtesting and may or may not work. It is because the game is still in this very unfinalised state that I've never done a "proper" public beta test release.
The bottom line is that FMAS will only ever be more a labour of love than a commercial product to me. I WANT to get it finished because I like the system, I think it works very well and deserves to be used (and those folks who have tried it – in its various incarnations- seem to agree).
25/28mm skirmish games are a crowded marketplace at the moment, and with our (GZG's) current emphasis on the 15mm and Starship ranges I'm afraid FMAS keeps getting put back onto the "pending" pile; every now and then I drag it out, add a few new ideas (and sometimes decide they're not as good as what I had before, so throw them out again), and then it goes on the back burner again as something more urgent screams for attention.
I'd love to be able to say that it'll be out by Christmas, or next year, or next decade…. but I can't. It'll happen when and if I get the spare time to do what needs to be done with it.
My apologies to anyone who's emailed to ask about it and not got a reply; I TRY to reply to most mails, but I don't always manage it with the volume of mail I have to wade through, and if I don't answer one immediately it can get buried by the deluge of stuff following behind it. :-/

Jon (GZG)

Jon,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread. It is good to know that FMAS is still a work in progress and hasn't vanished into the ether.

I played FMAS quite some time ago and I really enjoyed it. The dice mechanics are quite novel and alot of fun. I for one hope FMAS gets moved to the front burner in the neart future. I am always on the lookout for a good set of rules.

Heres hoping we see FMAS soon. Cheers.

Dan

Ooh, it's really cool! I could talk about it.

I just won't. So there.

Jon,
To echo Dan, thanks for taking the time out of your schedule to read an respond to my question.

I understand how the 15mm and starship lines are taking up more time than other projects. If they are selling, obviously it is your best interest to continue supporting those ranges.

I also appreciate how you won't release FMA Skirmish until you think it's ready. I think it says much about your feelings on product quality. The glut of 25mm skirmish only reinforces the need to release a stellar, "stand out" product.

Please continue producing you're lovely 15mm dudes and spaceships. I can make my own rules if I have to. I'd be up a creek if I had to make my own figures.

Viva GZG!

I can't fault Jon for wanting to put food on the table, i.e. concentrating on making and selling minis. I'd still like to see FMAS "leave the nest"… I really like the rules.

true. I love the 15mm guys from GZG, so I'd hate to see less of them.

Not many manufacturers make 25 and 15 AND 6 mm figures for a set of rules (I will avoid sighing over Dirtside 3…) like Jon/GZG does. His success is the wish of many another miniatures maker I suspect.

I guess it is the old question of what is 'good enough' for any set of rules tht an author needs to decide. Jon has made one selection and while it does drive me slightly nuts (oh, been there for a while already…never mind) I appreciate all he does and hope he continues to do it for the next 57 years (I am 57, have no idea about Jon) when I may finally tire of miniatures…

Gracias,

Glenn

Jon I know you have heard this before from me.

But…

I want FMAS for 15mm Skirmish.

Oh! Btw, keep up the good work with the 15mm figs and vehicles. They look great.

I'm down with InfoJunky – am using sg2, but want to integrate some smaller charachter groups into combat with the squads we're already using.

Is there a way to join the playtest list? & If so how would I proceed?

btw Jon, I also love the 15mm armor & minis you're making and will be spending money for many moons to come with you.

Jon, if you're not going to release FMAS in a short future, would you care to pass the beta rules to anyone interested in? I'd kill to have a copy of the system :)

Stand in line blacksmith. ; )

"Is there a way to join the playtest list? & If so how would I proceed?"

You could try emailing the List Administrator: seidl at wraith.com

But I am not sure what (if any) admissions policy he is operating. I do know that originally the playtest list was "by invitation only". Whether it still is, I know not.

If the game is only intended as a labor of love and not as a commercial product, holding onto it like this is doing a dis-service to the gaming community. That most of GZG's rulebooks are available as free pdfs makes this even more bizarre.

"If the game is only intended as a labor of love and not as a commercial product, holding onto it like this is doing a dis-service to the gaming community."

Jon's view is that FMA Skirmish will not drive sales of GZG figures in the same way that other games (in particular Full Thrust) have done. He runs a small business – so work that helps the business directly (i.e. maintaining and extending the miniature lines) is more important than writing rules.

"That most of GZG's rulebooks are available as free pdfs makes this even more bizarre."

Er … All of GZG's rules were originally only available as paper products for sale. The free PDFs are only provided for those rules which are out of print and that Jon does not consider worth the (considerable) expense of setting up another print run. In the case of FT and DS2 this is also because new editions are "in the pipeline" – and are taking priority over FMAS.

How sad. I wish that it could at least be released as a pdf -- or as a mini-game like Eureka has.

I've put on a dozen or so FMAS games for various groups, including some run at GZG ECC conventions. And at the end I always get asked "These are great rules -- how do I get a copy?"

And I always have to say "You can't."

It's just frusttrating because GZG games are a bit of a labor of love for me, too. I appreciate Jon's position -- he doesn't want to put out something that's not finished. But it's frustrating for me too because I want to use the system. And share it.

Maybe the next time Jon comes to GZG ECC we can lock him in a room until FMAS is done. :-)

-- nick

PS -- Jon, when are you coming back to GZG ECC? ;-)

PS to Captain Apathy -- try this:

link

It's what I've been using since 1999. :-)

-- nick

Thanks Nick. How is school going?

I'd imagine a skirmish set could help drive sales of the 25mm lines. Particularly if they develop some more character, freelancer and officer types for the various factions

Thanks Stingray

What I think needs to be made clearer is that FMAS is not finished. Some of us on the playtest list have some reservations about certain game mechanics, particularly when extended beyond even-sized battles.

This isn't a case of a completed game that just needs a little formatting and maybe some art work before it sees the light of day. The game really does need some more development.

Thanks Mike, you proved my point for me, which is that he's giving the rules away for free because it's not worth it to re-print them (he could've gone with POD, but that's not really an option now). Combine that with him flat out saying this is a not a money-making project and one has no choice but to wonder why he's holding onto it so tight.

For the record, I bought FT2 when it was first released in N.A., along with DS2, SG2, MT and FB1&2, so I know all about them being for sale originally. But the books that drove minis sales are now free, and the book that has no plans to drive minis sales won't even be made available at all.

Jon doesn't want to give up the rules quite yet because he, and others, feel they're not ready for prime time. Jon would rather not release an early set than have people say they were crap.

It's not that FMAS won't be made available, it's that it won't be made available until it is in some semblance of completion.