| The Shadow | 30 Aug 2007 8:15 a.m. PST |
Guys This conversation started in the "Marketing" forum. I have been considering having a line of "not" Flash Gordon minis produced that would accurately replicate the likeness of the characters from Alex Raymond's 1930's comic strip and the Universal Flash Gordon serials. The members of this group can help me out quite a bit if you would kindly answer a few questions that will help me to make a decision. There is no right or wrong answer to the questions. Do you *want* a line of FG figs that *accurately* replicate the 1930's FG characters? Assuming that the figures are well done, would you buy them? My idea is that the line would launch with eight of the main characters. Flash, Ming, Dale, Zarkov, Aura, Barin, Thun, and Vultan, and a pack each of Hawkmen and Ming's soldiers. I think that would be enough for skirmish gaming. How do you feel about that? Does it matter to you if the minis are larger than the 28-32mm standard? Feel free to add any feelings that you have that I didn't cover in my query. Thanks in advance. |
 John the OFM  | 30 Aug 2007 8:24 a.m. PST |
To answer your question, "No, not particularly." Seriously, though, the "not-Flash Gordon" idea is in a gray area. A "not Flashman" miniature need only be a Dashing hussar in his youth. A "not Flash Gordon" figure gets into a more specific design criterion.
What would a license to produce a genuine line cost? Wouldn't that be the easiest way? Who holds the copyright now? |
| GoodBye | 30 Aug 2007 8:32 a.m. PST |
Plus, why stop with just the Hawkmen? I think if you are going to do it, you should at least plan to do it all. |
Dropzonetoe  | 30 Aug 2007 8:36 a.m. PST |
I'd think a poll request would do this better.
I have not been interested in any of the Flash Gordon figures to date. I don't do pulp, but if something strikes my interest from other lines I pick it up.
For me I'd suggest within the 28-32mm standard. Like I said, I don't play the lines but would like, it crossover is available for it to be in a usable scale |
| Nesto47 | 30 Aug 2007 8:42 a.m. PST |
I'd like them in 1/48th scale. I'd like the range to be very complete with robots, mudmen, over the top monsters, etc. Resin ships, platform weapons, and vehicles, etc. I am actually suprised someone hasn't done this one in a big way yet. The 1/48th scale bit is to make it easier to pirate model kits, die cast cars, O- Scale realroad bits , etc. For the manufacturer, I assume this scale would make it a bit more prorietary, at least at first. It's a shame Heritage is no more. They could have done this one justice. |
| john steed | 30 Aug 2007 9:01 a.m. PST |
Given that most of the people of Ming's world were dangerous to Flash and co but wimps against Ming's minions – a game based on them does not thrill me Well made minis – what ever they are called – are always welcome! |
| Space Monkey | 30 Aug 2007 9:17 a.m. PST |
I'm interested in any pulp stuff, especially space opera… but like I said on the other thread, I don't care about 'accuracy' all that much as long as the 'style' is the same… and the sculpting is good. If the scale was noticeably different from most of the 28mm-ish minis I've got (Reaper, GW, Void) I would be much less interested… I want stuff I can mix with the minis I've already have without it standing out too much. |
| rddfxx | 30 Aug 2007 9:17 a.m. PST |
Interesting idea, I could go for them. |
| Lee Brilleaux | 30 Aug 2007 9:28 a.m. PST |
Dear Shadow: If I was your worst enemy, I would recommend that you made a very complete line, investing huge amounts of money, in an 'off' scale that would not match figures already owned by your potential customers. You would make them very obvious copies of something where their is an active trademark/copyright holder currently engaged in, say, promoting a TV show. You would not approach the IP holders for permission or licences, but instead hope to fly 'under the wire' and escape notice. However, you would make clear statements that these were as accurate copies as possible. Lawyers would pounce on this. In doing so, you would spend a lot of money on things few customers would actually buy, and then face law suits from one or more major corporations. Since I am NOT your worst enemy (or any sort of nemesis) I'd suggest you avoid these potentially dangerous choices! |
| Mulligan | 30 Aug 2007 9:29 a.m. PST |
Intriguing question, Shadow. (Sorry I didn't see you at Historicon. Even wore my jodhpurs for Bob Murch's game, and the wife accompanied me.) I would really love a figure line based on the elegantly drawn high point of the Alex Raymond comic strips (not so much the movie serials). In a way, you'd almost have to have single packs with multiple poses for Flash, Ming, and Dale, since each character wore distinct costume variants over the years. I'd prefer figures that would be compatible with Pulp Figures, Brigade Games, or Copplestones. I've occasionally tried to sculpt my own Kneadatite versions of Flash, but everything I've done so far is too large and chunky: I can't seem to capture the lean, acrobatic dash of Gordon the way that Raymond drew him. Most intriguing. I've got a lot of cogitations on this, which I will try to convey in a later posting when I have a little more time to frame them better. Mulligan |
| Archimedes | 30 Aug 2007 10:42 a.m. PST |
I'd be interested if they were compatible with Copplestone/Artizan/Brigade scale-ish figures. If they were one of the new-fangled 'bigger skirmish scales' I'd pass them up with extreme contempt. Compatibility is key for getting my money. I'd say your best bet is a line of 'Space Opera' figures with lots of 'not quite' characters: Flash, John Carter, Buck Rogers, etc. By lumping them all into one universal Space Pulp range, I'd say your chances of drawing the eye of an IP holder would actually be less: you'd be seen as not trying to target a specific IP but rather a style. |
| Garrison Miniatures | 30 Aug 2007 10:49 a.m. PST |
Although not a range I would buy – got enough on my plate – I would definitely use Brian Blessed as the Hawkman template. For scale, match with current pulp fiction type figures. Accessories are a must, mad scientist type things, and the flagship of any range would really need to be one or more resin spaceship. That would be the killer. Trouble is, it would have to be a reasonable size – again, go for the one in the version that included Blessed – forgotten the name of the actor who played Flash, somebody Jones? |
| The Shadow | 30 Aug 2007 11:17 a.m. PST |
Thanks guys. You've knocked some sense into me. Especially you Mexican Jack. LOL |
| MiniatureReview | 30 Aug 2007 11:33 a.m. PST |
Ah, Don't listen to the naysayers. What I would like to see is more figures to go with the Dick Garrison Range and the new Killer B Games figures. Those lines are really sweet and are in the same realm as Flash Gordon. Heck Wargames Supply Dump Dick Garrison line even has the birdmen. The great thing about the figures is they are sort of cartoonish without being dumb looking. Take a look
killerbgames.com/index.html
link |
| MiniatureReview | 30 Aug 2007 11:38 a.m. PST |
Oh and make the figures in that scale rather than the smaller 25/28mm scale. Normally I wouldn't say this, but if you make your figures smaller than the Dick Garrison/Killer B line you would probably not get sales from people who have those figures. Killer B Games has a pretty big list of figures that will eventually come to market. Having a few other companies out there that are compatable with those figures would be a good thing IMO. Oh and the Dick Garisson line and Killer B Games line are completely compatible. |
| The Swamp Foxy | 30 Aug 2007 12:05 p.m. PST |
A more generic pulp sci fi line might be less risky. Plus you can do Flash and interstellar hunters, mad robots, stranded astronauts etc, Obviously I have been playing around with some concepts myself. |
| CmdrKiley | 30 Aug 2007 12:21 p.m. PST |
Generic and wider range the better. Better for avoiding the IP laywers and you can appeal to a wider range. Think of it as a homage to that genre. Also make sure they are of a compatible scale with most other models (28-30mm). If anything, think of the Star Trek Voyager holodeck episodes of Captain Proton. They did a great job capturing the look and feel of the classic serial episodes of Flash Gordon, without having to resort to 1930's era SFX. As much as I detested Voyager, I enjoyed the Captain Proton episodes. |
| Mulligan | 30 Aug 2007 12:26 p.m. PST |
Shadow: Mexican Jack Squint and the other gents have put it quite beautifully, but here's a little more of my analysis, for what its worth. I once considered trying to partner up with some friends and creating a line of vintage science fiction figures and rules to be called Retro Rockets, so I've done a fair amount of thinking about these matters (ie., way too much and not nearly enough).
If your primary motivation for a Flash Gordon line of figures is entrepreneurial, I suspect you'd have a hard time of making it profitable or even breaking even, unless you found a way to hook up in a junior partnership with a larger organization that already has a licensing interest in Flash et al. Perhaps Checker Publishing, which have done a great job reprinting the Alex Raymond Flash strips might be interested in some supplementary venture. Pitched as a set of Flash Gordon collector's figures in a particular scale (as opposed to a direct line of wargaming figures), it might be possible to arrange some sort of business sponsorship to crank out the icons of the strip. I think the odds are long though. Somebody like Conte Collectibles might be interested in a 54-mm line of Flash Gordon figures. If you want a set of Flash figures for your own gaming and are willing to spend a little money, you could probably comission a figure sculptor to make some one-offs or even find a talented local modeler to do some decent conversion figures of the main characters. While you were at it, you might even find someone to make conversion parts such as ray weapons and wings for the hawkmen that you could attach to existing figures (I was thinking about using some ancients figures for that).
Having said all that, a large part of the charm of the original Flash Gordon strip and serials is the look of Mongo itself: the landscape, rocket ships and sleds, and art deco buildings. There, I think, the prospects are a lot brighter. Someone with the time and energy to do it could probably generate a line of quite nice 30's sci fi precolored folded paper scenic accessories (buildings, lab equipment, corridor interiors and maybe even rockets) at low margin cost along the lines of the wonderful TVAG stuff. As far as I know, recreating general art deco design elements would not involve the headache of negotiating licensing deals. (I've made a few Frank R. Paul-style robots for my own amusement and am working on a few Paul-style aliens and alien landscape terrain boards in anticipation of the Fantastic Worlds release.) Mulligan |
| evilcartoonist | 30 Aug 2007 1:58 p.m. PST |
Yes, I would buy them. Especially if they were done by either Copplestone or Artizan. And I am not a gamer, I would buy them for the painting fun. |
| Saxondog | 30 Aug 2007 3:00 p.m. PST |
Guess I'm old fashioned. I own DVD sets of almost all the old sci-fi serials and would love a figure line that was close to the look of such characters (but not copyright close) but as I said I'm old fashioned. The further away from 25mm the less interest I would have. Larger….. I might buy a couple just to paint and put on a shelf but that's about it. |
| John the OFM | 30 Aug 2007 5:18 p.m. PST |
Beware of those who are Double Dog Daring you to lick the flagpole.
"Yeah, sure! Go ahead and do it! I might buy a figure!" They aren't the ones who will have to pay your legal bills.
And, don't listen to them when they say, "That isn't right! Why should THEY have the ability to keep you from making WHAT I WANT!" Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. NBC spends 100 times more on lawyers in a year than you will ever earn in a lifetime. Suing and intimidating people keeps them in practice, and justifies the retainers. You may have the Law on your side, but you can't afford to prove it. Mexican Jack Squint is a Wise Man. Listen to him. |
| WarWizard | 30 Aug 2007 6:10 p.m. PST |
Although I always loved the Buster Crabbe and Alex Raymond Flash Gordon types, I am afraid they would not provoke enough interest to be profitable for you. And I agree with what others have said about legal issues. Thank you for asking our opinons though. One range which I am surprised has not been picked up in the wargamming world is a license for "Planet of the Apes". Either the 60's or 90's version would work for me there. |
| The Shadow | 30 Aug 2007 6:24 p.m. PST |
Mulligan I don't think that Checker Publishing would be interested as I'd want an entire figure line. I checked out their site and it appears that they do books. Period. I've spoken to Rich Conte, but mostly about a "Magnificent Seven" 54mm playset. He has two sculpts finished for the project. Chris (Yul Brynner) and Vin (Steve McQueen. Both are beautiful replications, but you know Conte, he's got so many projects going that we may not see the Mag 7 for years!
I wouldn't even *think* of putting yet *another* project into his head. I have a sculptor in mind. He does fantasy minis and they are some of the best that I've seen. It's tough to do women. Especially naked legs and feet. I haven't seen many run-of-the-mill sculptors that can do a good job on a woman's body in one of those Flash Gordon "harem girl" oufits. And if I can't have Dale and Aura looking like the strips and first serial I'm just not interested. So they would be pretty expensive sculpts. The guy ain't cheap. But you get what you pay for. I didn't really think of the project as a money maker. I *know* how to make money and this ain't the way. I would do it if I could break even, but more importantly, the gamers would have to *want* this, and I can see that they aren't exactly jumping up and down. So I'm going to ditch the idea. I'm kind of disappointed, but that's nothing new. The "pulp" gamers are better off anyway, as I planned to give them a pretty stiff quiz before I allowed them to buy the figures. I can see Marc, Rich, Pete, Murch, Chip, Pat, Jerry, Dr. Goldwyrm, Mexican Jack, and all of the others that know me laughing because they know I'd probably do it. Heh heh! |
| CmdrKiley | 30 Aug 2007 6:49 p.m. PST |
Ah well. I guess I'm going to pick start settling on the Dick Garrison line for my project. |
| dampfpanzerwagon | 31 Aug 2007 4:08 a.m. PST |
Flash Gordon Range? and bigger than 28-30mm? What about the Cliffhanger Range from Monolith Designs! 36 – 40mm tall and beautifully sculpted figures of Flash, Ming, Dr. Zarkov and Dale as well as troops! Check out the link; link I have found that the the initial range includes all of the main charachters and if you want additional figures there are a whole host of models that can be used – check out my photo section Flash Gordon 2 in the photo section of the group (Sorry but you will have to joine!). Tony |
 20thmaine | 31 Aug 2007 8:55 a.m. PST |
Depends – what scale ? If they were true 25mm then I'd get lots (they'd go with my Minifigs first SF range, which was well into Flash Gordon territory in design). They'd also mix in with the wonderfully quirky (but now "missing") Hinchliffe SF range. Big 25mm/28mm – I'd probably pass.
Also, I think The Swampy Fox has made a sensible suggestion if there is a copyright risk.
|
| Space Monkey | 01 Sep 2007 11:25 a.m. PST |
If someone were to start a line of spaceship minis to represent this era (Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, Tom Corbett…reference old covers of Astounding SF magazine)… and they were well done… I would dip into my secret vault to spend serious dough on a big fleet of them. |
| joedog | 01 Sep 2007 10:38 p.m. PST |
Rockets for games? How about one of these V-2 inspired Moon Rockets (scroll down) 39cm and 72cm versions.
link |
| The Shadow | 01 Sep 2007 11:14 p.m. PST |
VenusBoy Go to this site: cshobbies.com Look up "Rocketship". Surprise! They've been doing them for years! |
| The Shadow | 01 Sep 2007 11:18 p.m. PST |
"What about the Cliffhanger Range from Monolith Designs! 36 – 40mm tall and beautifully sculpted figures of Flash, Ming, Dr. Zarkov and Dale as well as troops!" The only one of those minis that's even passable is Ming. Dale is particularly awful! |
| dampfpanzerwagon | 02 Sep 2007 4:38 a.m. PST |
To The Shadow – "What about the Cliffhanger Range from Monolith Designs! 36 – 40mm tall and beautifully sculpted figures of Flash, Ming, Dr. Zarkov and Dale as well as troops!" The only one of those minis that's even passable is Ming. Dale is particularly awful! I dissagree – Ming and Flash are particularly good sculpts but there are a number of sculpts that are well done – I particularly like to troopers and the officers. I have taken the view that there are other figures within the range/ranges that can be easily converted or available from different manufactureres and now have aver 60 Flash inspired 40mm figures (see above for the link). I have also scratch built a rocket ship and Sci Fi tank. Tony |
| The Shadow | 02 Sep 2007 7:15 a.m. PST |
"I dissagree – Ming and Flash are particularly good sculpts but there are a number of sculpts that are well done – I particularly like to troopers and the officers." Flash isn't terrible, he's OK. If a head piece and sword were included on the sculpt it would have been more appealing. If there was a better version of Dale, a less silly looking Zarkov, and if Aura and Barin were included the line would be worth investing in for me. I've been considering a mod on the Flash mini. I can put a sword on him, but the head piece would be tough. |
| dampfpanzerwagon | 02 Sep 2007 10:00 a.m. PST |
To Shadow Try this figure for a conversion of Flash with sword! picture My own long term project is to either convert or use 'stand-in' miniatures for the figures that are promised in the Cliffhanger range and have yet to apear. All – in – all the Graven Images are the best available at this momemt and I enjoy the 40mm scale – easier to paint. I also look forward to .45's new game Fantasy something! Regards Tony |
| Garrison Miniatures | 02 Sep 2007 2:48 p.m. PST |
OK, scale you have to go for is 1/72 or possibly 1/32 to go with those spaceships. Not sure that anyone would have any money left for figures after buying all the spaceships, but they do look nice. |
| Saladin | 02 Sep 2007 3:53 p.m. PST |
I'm very interested in Retro scifi figures (from Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers to Forbidden Planet style), in "heroic" 28mm, since that really is the current standard. But I don't like Hawkmen and other science-fantasy types. I'd also like to see a line that is fairly generic, with multiple head options. |
| The Shadow | 02 Sep 2007 4:54 p.m. PST |
"I'm very interested in Retro scifi figures (from Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers to Forbidden Planet style), But I don't like Hawkmen and other science-fantasy types." OK, I'll bite. How can you have Flash Gordon without the Hawkmen? Vultan was a main adversary of Flash Gordon. He captured Dale and forced Thun and Flash into slavery in the "Atom Furnaces". It wasn't until Zarkov constructed the "atom light solidifier" and saved the Hawkmen's city that Flash and company were freed and becames friends of the Hawkmen. |
| Come In Nighthawk | 26 Jan 2013 8:49 p.m. PST |
"I'm very interested in Retro scifi figures (from Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers to Forbidden Planet style)… Ditto. |
| Chef Lackey Rich | 26 Jan 2013 10:12 p.m. PST |
Nighthawk is a good name for a necromancer. |
| flooglestreet | 27 Jan 2013 10:54 a.m. PST |
Shadow I hope you will re-consider doing this project in a more generic style. Beware King Features Syndicate is part of Hearst Publishing as in "I'll get you, Orson Welles!" King has a malignant genius for destroying really good concepts for the Flash Gordon brand and then hunting up bozos to ruin the brand. These are the people who said no to George Lucas and yes to Dino deLaurentis. They also OKed a skateboarding Flash Gordon. I would like it in 28-30 mm to go along with Wargames Supply Dump and Killer B. |
| The Shadow | 27 Jan 2013 1:28 p.m. PST |
Floog Check the date. I asked this question six years ago! (-: |
| Come In Nighthawk | 27 Jan 2013 4:49 p.m. PST |
Floog. Check the date. I asked this question six years ago! (-:  Nighthawk the "necromancer" has been trawling the "ancient" threads looking for questions he wants to ask, but figures: Why start a new thread when one can resurrect a puur-fectly good thread that asked the same question, and then went dormant!!??  Eh??  |
| darthfozzywig | 28 Jan 2013 7:35 p.m. PST |
I assume this line of minis requires a 1:1 scale time machine to go back to 2007. |
| The Shadow | 28 Jan 2013 8:14 p.m. PST |
OK Nighthawk. I'll bring you up to date on Flash Gordon 28mm figures. Nobody makes a good line. There are some that look sorta like the characters, but not really. I quit the idea because of the possible legal problems. |
