"EW British Universal Carriers." Topic

During the Battle of France 1940, did the Universal Carriers serving with the BEF look like this.

1:
picture

OR

2:
picture

I just hope to God that it's Number 2 because I need some Carriers for the Recon role in the BEF. BF don't make number 1's.
Thanks, and please help me..

Well, as I hate to disppoint, I'd better let you just read this and follow the links, so you can make your own mind up:

link

Keep in nmind that just because BF only makes a Mk II Carrier, others may not be so limited.

Allen

Bad news, it's No2 but with a little convesion you could trim the sides down, the BEF had both Bren Carriers ans Scout Carriers, the sides were cut down at different angles and hide the other seats with stowage.

Can the BF Universal Carrier be used or not?.
I'm talking about in the BEF, in a recon role. That link isn't too good on dates.
Thanks..

Actually, sod the photo thing, that just confused everything.

I meant to ask whether the BF Universal Carrier could be used (in whatever role) in the BEF, 1940.

link

If not then I'm stuffed.
Thanks..

Scout and MG carriers would certainly be more appropriate for 1940.

But the links given above are certainly ambiguous about when the first universal carriers came in to being.

It is mentioned that in 1940 it was decided that a single design would be better. Universal carriers seem to have been around by 1941, with the Mk II coming in 1943. But there doesn't seem to be much giving actual months of entry to service -- at least to my eyes?

As to using Universal carrier models in France 1940, you could probably get away with it. But, conversion wouldn't be too hard, and I'm sure that someone other than BF makes carriers.

What does a scout carrier look like?.

"What does a scout carrier look like?."

Like a Bren carrier, only reversed behind the driver's compartment. I can't remember which is which, but one has a fully enclosed box (open on top) on one side, the other side has a sloping side shield and no rear armor plate. The Bren and the Scout differ only in the way these were arranged. If no one comes up with an example today I'll look it up tonight.

By the way, BH/QC makes a proper Bren carrier model. A bit on the small side, but nice nonetheless.

Confused me

Geoff
link

:-)

Not sure why you're confused, Geoff. You just have a UC Mk I (un-illustrated).

A description of the modifications for the Scout carrier can be found through the references I suggested. As I said, follow the links; for this particular info, to this link:

link

The Quality Castings Bren and Universal Carriers are not on the small side. If I showed you a QC UC Mk II and a BF UC painted, side by side, you would only notice that the QC model is more detailed.

The Mk II was introduced in 1942. The BF resin model would take quite a bit of work to change it to the UC Mk I, of which a few were in France in 1940. You would have to change the track valance to the earlier pattern (not easy with resin), remove the side foot steps, remove the spare wheel on the front of the hull and rearrange the headlights, remove the kit box on the rear of the hull…

Allen

Is that QRF Universal Carrier No1 MK1 a Scout carrier?.
Do you have any photo's?.
Thanks..

This site:

link

Has some good views of the Bren carrier. The left side of the hull behind the driver/gunners' compartment has an open-topped armored box, while the right side is open. On the scout carrier the armored box is on the right, with the left side open.

Do you have any photo's?

We have over 600 photos… sadly none of that item yet. I'm at a show with the stock in 2 weeks and can grab one to photograph though :-)

Is that QRF Universal Carrier No1 MK1 a Scout carrier?

Uh… ask Allen, he knows more about UCs than me :-D

Geoff

At reader request, we're working up a review of all of the 15mm UCs we can find for Wargames @ Nordalia – it will be a while before it's out (BT Fast Tanks, T-34, 1940/41, and US Airborne Co box by BF being first), but we've got 14 of them in-house from three vendors and more on the way, so Milo2233, if you need pictures of any, let me know. I'll get them to you (unassembled – want to save the assembly for the review, but many are one-piece getups anyway).

Allen, thanks for the link. More references are ALWAYS good.

Don.

Thankyou all for your help.

Number 2 is not appropriate for the purist, but in my opinion and in many of my 1:72 games I use the Airfix Universal Carrier as a stand in for the Bren and/or Scout carrier. It's acceptable to me, anyway.

I am just reading a book about Dunkirk by Hugo something or other…very good read with eyewitness accounts etc. Carriers are mentioned many times and were involved in many actions… Bren Guns carriers fighting Panzers!

If your looking for a Carrier for 1940 to serve your BEF in 1/56th scale I would suggest speaking with chieftain models as they have a good range of vehicles in white metal being produced for France 1940.

To be honest, I have considered buying BAM carriers for 1940, didn't realise that the ones they have may not have been around at the time… Crouchie, if your reading this, whats the chance of a 1940 version Bren Carrier??

"High" to "Off the scale at the top end". :-)

In 1/56 Force of Arms used to do a MK1 and a Scout carrier.
The molds were sold to AGN so they may be a source

They are nice models. See link for pictures of them in action in an East African game we did last year

link

We have several packs of BEF coming out later in the year, there'll be specific early war scouts and brens to accompany these.

regards
Si@BoltAction

Oh lovely.

Are they in 15mm because thats all I use?.

Milo – just to cut through the confusion.

The short answer is no, I don't think you cant use the BF Universal Carrier MKII in a 1940 BEF force, they would use a mix of Scout, Cavalry and Bren carriers.

Depending on your location you can get various models from QRF, Quality Castings or SDD to fit the bill. As to which is "best", well to be honest if you are looking at getting any number why not order one from each and let us know? I have only seen the QC model up close, it was very nice but looked quite complicated

Ken

Milo
Not 15mm from us, sorry.
Si

QRF sounds OK because they are British and hopefully are 15mm. Is is definitely a Bren Gun carrier though. Could you get me a pic.

Could you get me a pic…

Yes, if you can hang on a couple of weeks – I've added it to my list of things to pick up when I am with the stock at the Newbury show!

Unless anyone else has one handy and wishes to take a photo!

Geoff

I've got one unpainted and can throw a picture up in a few hours… In fact, I have one of each unpainted ;-). And one of each QC, and one of each BF…

Don.

BEF later in the year from BAM…. EXCELLENT!!!!!

Bob

We've got BEF, French and some 'others' coming along for the early war fans…Plus the Polish range will expand (after the long wait) in terms of men and materiel.

regards
Si

Hope the "others" are more early Germans in Jack boots to fight against ;-) already got your available packs.

Bob