doug redshirt | 29 Jul 2007 10:05 p.m. PST |
Someone out of the know brought up moving the Ancient tournies upstairs. That little idea was brought up a couple of years ago and the ancient players rose up with torches and pitchforks and heads rolled. Sort of shows that the tail is wagging the dog now. I made the mistake of talking about tournies on our little web page out here in the midwest and I was thinking I would be burned at the stake at the next con. The first rule is dont talk about Tournments or their worshippers. |
jdpintex | 30 Jul 2007 4:44 a.m. PST |
As it was my firt H-con, I can't speak to attendance. I was highly impressed with the game registration scheme. I only had problems getting into a game on Saturday afternoon as it was cancelled – so I went to the Dealers room and did a fine comb for everything I wanted. I liked the showroom. You could walk on one level and look at the games from above and each level had plenty of space to game. I played several games there. It also had the best air conditioner. I do think a map/list of all the rooms being used would've been nice. I found one room on Saturday nite because of the noise caused by one of MJS' games being put on. But overall, I do believe it was a well run Con, great dealers hall, good/available food. Air conditioning couldn't keep up with the numbers and the heat/humidity from outside though. But then, I doubt anyone up north invests that heavily in air conditioning for just a few months of the year. |
60th RAR | 30 Jul 2007 6:29 a.m. PST |
I have to agree that I love the showroom. It is a bit of a pain to navigate, but that is more than made up for by the ample elbow room and air conditioning. In days past I hated even going near the Distlestink for the press of bodies and the heat. I didn't make it to this show since my son is only five weeks old and it didn't seem fair to ditch the wife with all of the work, bit I have noticed an improvement in the dispersal of the games over the last few shows and I heartily approve. It may be less convenient for those who just like to wander about and look at the games, but it is much better for those running and playing! |
Colonel Bill | 30 Jul 2007 6:31 a.m. PST |
Odd, I thought attendance was significantly up as well, or at least a bunch more people showed up on Thursday. I usually get there around 800 am on Thursday morning and I was shocked at how full the parking lot was and how long the lines were for badges and to get into the flea market and vendor's hall. Several dealers I know indicated it was one of the best ever for sales, especially Thursday. MY only issue was the AC, which I think must have been on the fritz, but otherwise I enjoyed the Hell out of this one. Was one of the best ever in my opinion. Regards, Bill Gray ageofeagles.com |
Wizard Whateley | 30 Jul 2007 6:47 a.m. PST |
I agree with Bill. It seemed to me the attendance was way up, and a couple of the vendors I spoke with said they never did better convention business. The event registration process was clever and ran smoothly, and I was able to get into every game I wanted. |
nycjadie | 30 Jul 2007 7:51 a.m. PST |
It was my first Historicon, and I walked through all the rooms. I liked the maze-like set-up of the con, as it led to a more intimate environment and allowed me to feel more comfortable talking to me people I didn't know. I think the program could have laid out the maps a bit better. Unless you were familiar with the rooms and games, I had a hard time navigating. In fact, I had to ask 5 con staff where a specific class was before I got an answer. The Host is shabby and the AC poor, but other than that I found it fine. I didn't stay in a room there, however, and have no idea what they look like. I liked the different rooms. Other cons I've been to are predominately in a huge vast auditorium. I liked it. Parking was a pain, though. I guess lighting could improve a bit too, but what are you going to do? I had to skip two painting classes because there wasn't enough room for me, even standing. The acoustics in there were pretty bad as well. I came specifically for a couple of the classes and the dealers hall. Perhaps taking some tables out to have lectures would be good. When I was there, the paint and take was pretty sparse and everyone else was crammed into a small area for taking classes. Kudos to those teaching classes, BTW. It was really crowded in there. |
Mirosav | 30 Jul 2007 8:08 a.m. PST |
"Not to start another round, but stick the Ancients tourneys up there, and let the "Participation" games be easily available for all to see." Aren't the players in tourneys 'participating' too?
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pphalen | 30 Jul 2007 8:51 a.m. PST |
Aren't the players in tourneys 'participating' too? Not to stir up any flames
Yes, but in their own, little self-contained world. They sit in one of the Prime "Real Estate" areas of the con, which would be a great area for on-lookers to wander about, rather than (essentially) a vast hallway, with interspersed games. Put another, besides the tournaments, 95% of the games at Historicon are "beginner friendly" where rules are taught, simplified, etc. IMNSHO utilizing such a large, premium space for a msall percentage of the con attendees is inefficient. I know this has been hashed out before
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Genesteeler | 30 Jul 2007 9:32 a.m. PST |
Brought my family up to Historicon on Saturday. My son (who's 8) went around the convention with me while my wife and daughter took off and went shopping. My son is really interested in Romans. Specifically "Square Shield" Romans, as he likes to put it. The most fun he had was in the tournament area! He has no fear and simply walked up to players with Romans of any type (After Imperial he like's "SPQR" armies ) and asked about them. He's working on his own Imperial Roman army. I have to say that the guys playing "Warrior" system were VERY nice and accomodating as I tried to pull my son back. A number of players (and their opponents) took the time to discuss their armies, history and the system all while still playing. It sold me into buying the rulebook and looking into that game. So some very nice people, playing an intense game took a moment and helped our hobby well beyond their own personal gain from it. Another point; unlike the GM games, tournament games usually had enough SPACE for people to stand around and quitely watch, my son excepted on the quite bit. And I noticed we weren't the only ones watching the games either.* The GM games were almost all crowded by, mostly, adults squeezed together around the table. A lot of the time it was hard to see the terrain through all the participants playing. Having a good time I hope. I used to GM and plan to again and when I have time participate in those kind of games more so than tournaments. It's great to run a game and see the excitment of the players either with the game, playing a new period or both. That's a good feeling to help others have fun directly like that. Running a GM type game is highly recommended. However it's addictive.  Both help support our hobby. I'd argue that tournaments where convention attendees can watch and possibly even ask a question or two is just as important if not moreso to beginners than GM games. Assuming the GM/demo games are not run enough. Frequently run Demo games are the most important games to introduce new gamers of course. Not to go too far off but I also think the terrain for the Flames of War tournament was as good if not better than most GM games I saw. And the FoW terrain I could SEE easily. *I realize that to some it's odd watching some games but it is fun to walk up and down an ailse to see what's going on. That's me and I'm OK with it. I personally don't say anything unless someone playing does so first and I make sure I don't get in the way. |
Condottiere | 30 Jul 2007 9:49 a.m. PST |
I'd argue that tournaments where convention attendees can watch and possibly even ask a question or two is just as important if not moreso to beginners than GM games. You might get your head handed to you if you interrupt one of the competition tournament players. Can be intense at times. |
Genesteeler | 30 Jul 2007 9:54 a.m. PST |
Point taken JNH. Nobody is taking my head off I assure you
I did use the word possibly in regards to asking a question. Being an adult and gamer I don't generally come close to getting near a table let alone asking a question. I've seen some pretty pathetic GMs do something similar as well. Not only to specators but to participants. So I figure it's a personality issue not so much the type of game. I'm off to see "my" surgeon now. You know you have a problem when you have your own surgeon
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Genesteeler | 30 Jul 2007 9:55 a.m. PST |
I've seen some pretty pathetic GMs do something similar as well. Should read: I've seen some pretty pathetic GMs react negatively to questions as well. |
McKinstry  | 30 Jul 2007 1:33 p.m. PST |
Given all the talk of the Distelfink feeling empty and the Lampeter too crowded, what about simply switching the two? In addition, if the Showroom is underused, could the Flea Market fit in there? My only issue with Tournament area is the apallingly bad terrain. Does the nature of the competition require nothing but felt squares for terrain to be equitable? The standard seems to be gorgeous armies with in some cases, amazing effort and detail on the camp/baggage area playing on a surface that is only a slight step up from a green painted tabletop. |
Rudysnelson | 30 Jul 2007 1:40 p.m. PST |
To tournament players to determine where the specific edges are of a terrain section is more important than the appearance. I have seen the felt squares used for hills with the sharp angle contours drawn on it, so that the exact angle of a stand barely touching a drawn contour changes the combat factors for it. Sorta sad really that function of that detail is more important than appearance. |
msoong | 30 Jul 2007 2:14 p.m. PST |
I just came back from Hcon and the last time I went is in 2003. My impression is that there are many more games this time, and the "people count" is probably the same (although this year there are more rooms where the games are hosted, so the density of people in rooms are less
) |
Condottiere | 30 Jul 2007 6:46 p.m. PST |
The standard seems to be gorgeous armies with in some cases, amazing effort and detail on the camp/baggage area playing on a surface that is only a slight step up from a green painted tabletop. There truly ought to be a rule about terrain. How hard can it be to make hills, woods sections, etc. that look presentable? |
nazrat | 30 Jul 2007 7:40 p.m. PST |
I've always been bothered by that as well. Some people really rag on FoW, but one thing I can say is that that every Flames of War tournie I have seen has exceptionally nice looking boards being played upon. Not so the DBx events. Those are generally a little embarrassing in their presentation. |
Bad Painter | 30 Jul 2007 7:56 p.m. PST |
I asked about attendance when I dropped by the registration desk on Saturday, to pick up guest wrist bands for my grandsons, and was told that it "seemed" to be up. The dealers I spoke to said that business was up after a few years of flat sales. Yeah, there were some things that could be better, such as food and parking, but things like registration and table spacing have gotten better over the past few years. Thanks to all the volunteer staff and game masters for making Historicon happen at all. |
brambledemon | 30 Jul 2007 8:25 p.m. PST |
"Put another, besides the tournaments, 95% of the games at Historicon are "beginner friendly" where rules are taught, simplified, etc. IMNSHO utilizing such a large, premium space for a msall percentage of the con attendees is inefficient. I know this has been hashed out before
" It was my first time at the Convention. I really didn't get why they made that one big-prime area the Tournament area. It would have made more sense to put the Warrior Tournament in their own room. You also could have put the WAB tourney it its own room-like the FOW tourney. In the main room, you should have all the really eye popping demo games. It is the first thing you see when you walk into the Host. Many of those tables-during the Warrior-WAB tourney-looked sub-par. Personally, if I were playing in a tournament, I would want to be removed from the main crowds. Just an observation |
BCantwell | 30 Jul 2007 9:36 p.m. PST |
I was able to make it this year for the first time in several years and had a great time. The extra space made available really has helped to make the gaming environment more enjoyable. While some posting here may enjoy bumping off their fellow gamers, I don't and so the more open rooms were great. One of the games I ran was in the Showroom and I had not problems with it. Having the extra space and tables seems to have also given the organizers the luxury of having more time between games on each table. While this may present the impression that the space os being underutilized, this is a great thing for those us us running games, as it means we are not rushed to set-up and take down our terrain and that the start of a game is not held up because the last game on that table went 15 minutes over. The convention goer benefits from this with a better organized and presented game. Attendance for both my games was on par with what Duncan and others were saying – I filled all my slots and turned away folks. Great work by Duncan and the whole staff. Looking foward to next year. Brian |
Rudysnelson | 31 Jul 2007 5:54 a.m. PST |
Other than tournaments, one price got you in and you were not hit up for extra charges to play specific games unlike is the practice in some other national shows. Sounds like another great show. |