"Starship Troopers ,Warhammer 40K or something else" Topic

Ok, I understand that there are some critics of every system. With that said, I recently read one of the WH40K novels. It was fun. The miniatures look neat. I also have read Starship Troopers, have seen the movie. That could be fun. If anyone has played both, or had a good argument for going one way or the other, I'm happy to listen. I am even open to games out there that I don't know about. I'm looking for a big space skirmish system with neat looking miniatures. Not prepainted though, I like to paint.

I appreciate any response.

Thanks!

5150 does 40k closer to the fluff than the 40k rules do. THW has some minis, but you'll mostly need to go 3rd party to get figures. Fortunately, many 3rd party figures are already in the rules. There is a semi-active 5150/40k group that has developed a lot of 40k specific army lists and rules. 5150 is my favorite skirmish game right now, and frankly it's hard to "go back" to normal games once you've gone THW.

WarEngine/Shockforce is fun and free (just google it) and is a much more traditional style of wargame. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it's among the best IGO-UGO games from a playability and flexibility perspective. I'm sure there are 40k force lists around somewhere.

I haven't played Fast And Dirty yet, but it also seems like a fantastic scifi game, and it's also free. "Word on the street" is that it gives a very realistic feeling game, and the rules are certainly easy to follow. You should absolutely download FAD and check it out since it costs nothing but time.

I'd be in the "neither" camp. I'd suggest checking out AT-43. Fun game, interesting minis and there are some actual tactics to the game which is not always the case with 40K.

5150 is great, use any figures you want including those 40K and Starship trooper figures.

…………..Doug

I may have to order 5150 then and give it a go.

SST has much better rules than 40K--you can check out the Battlefield Evolution rules online at the Mongoose Website, and these rules will be used as the basis for the upcoming Starship Troopers: Evolution game later this year.

That having been said, you will be more likely to find opponents for the 40K universe just because of GW's market presence.

You could also look at Stargrunt II from GZG which is a very good and tightly-integrated set of rules, but not as well supported or as pervasive as GW or Mongoose.

I like the SST rules over 40k. However 40k has better quality minis, more factions, more gamer support and more players.

If you're looking for a large scale battle level game. I would recommend Metropolis and it's skirmish level cousin Urban War. You can use the same minis for either game, just Metro uses more. Nice thing is that you can start small with Urban War and if you like it expand up to Metropolis level. Rules for both are free PDF downloads from Urban Mammoth, there's 5 rather diverse factions and the minis are really nice and getting even better.

40k is your best shot if you are looking for opponents, and don't have one lined up yet. This may vary by area, so you may want to look around where you play and see what people are playing. If you are starting it with an opponent in mind, find a ruleset you both agree on. If you are painting to paint, then pick the models not the rules.

Fitz

I like the 40K rules over SST for doing 40K stuff. They certainly aren't for everything but for space fantasy they work great.

One ruleset I really encourage you to look at is Infinity. Fantastic figures, probably the best on the market. The system itself is really good. It doesn't cope well with armies but for small squad sized games I haven't seen the ruleset that beats it yet.

Plus, you can try it for free on their website.

Try 5150. Like was mentioned before you can use any figures and it is MUCH better supported than 40K or SST.
Also 5150 can be played solo, same side, and head to head.
Have a question about a rule. You can have the answer within 24 hours on the 2000 member plus very active Yahoo Group.

link

I'm looking for a big space skirmish system with neat looking miniatures.

That would be 40k.

For players, support, shear volume of materials, and fun 40k is the way to go. And the Battle for Macragge is the best starter set out there for the money. Basically, one gets a ton of miniatures + free set of rules. In the event you don't care for the rules you can get another set (say 5150) and not really be out anything.

SST is also fine set of rules, but stick to the box set basic rules. With the basic rules we had a lot of fun. The army books moved the rules toward a second rate 40k. For us, they really sucked the fun out of the game. Even with the Skinnies, it is still a game of humans vs bugs.

A lot of people mention 5150 and it is an ok set of rules and not my thing. Dispite of what people say, it doesn't do a better job of being 40k then 40k. And it is not better then 40k, just different.

Another vote for 5150 (which also has the added bonus of a campaign system and being playable solo if you dont have an opponent handy)

The mechanics are a bit different to the standard I-Go U-Go
but they actively encourage customisation and use of whatever figures you like

Want to play SST? Bugs are already covered in the rules

Want to play 4D Kay? – just hit the files section of the THW Yahoo group

Want to play SST meets 4D kay? see above!

Want to do something different? (Me i've just finished playing the PC version Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30 – ordered some figs from Pig Iron and Ground Zero games
with a view to doing a sci fi skirmish campaign based on the exploits of the U.S. Airborne in Normandy….)

GZG's Stargrunt 2 are my other rules of choice but they're more "hard" sci fi oriented than SST of 40k

Haven't played 40K since the 1st edition and have no experience with SST so cant comment although I get the impression that they're not likely to be as flexible as 5150

No sock puppetry (or GW/Mongoose bashing) here just a THW/PIP/GZG fan

5150 is certainly a viable alternative to 40K/SST, as is StarGrunt and the ShockForce/WarEngine rules. You might also want to take a look at Defiance from Majestic 12 Games, which really does a great job of letting you design both your individual troops and your army as a whole.

For smaller, almost RPG-ish individual based skirmish games that allow you to use any figs, it's 5150.

For larger skirmish games, my experiences with Stargrunt 2 (which can be played with anyone's figs as well) and Void (now Metropolis) have been extremely good.

You can also field large SG2 forces using GZG excellent true 25mm figs/vehicles for a very reasonable price.

Another for 5150 !

you wont have to buy another codex or rule book in two years time !

Sorry if i sound cynical, but i am !

Rees

40k, Skulls and purity seals nonsense. 40,000 years in the future and melee is almost the prefered method of killing. Just silly. If I was to get back into 40k, I'd go 2nd Ed. On the plus side, tons of game support and figures and opponents.

SST, It's a great game. I think it has great atmosphere and very unique game mechanics that plays very well. Lots of fun. Poor support at this point, till they re-release the game at the end of the summer. I highly recommend it.

Fast and Dirty, I downloaded the rules the other day. Gave them a once over, I like the look so far. I think I'll try it in the next week. I'll post a battle report/review if I play.

5150, I heard so many good things about this game, I'm dying to try it out. So far my bank account has said no.

Stargrunt 2, I've had the rules for years, don't think I've ever played, but have read them. They look good, and I've heard tons of good things about them and I plan to give them a run thru some time in the future.

Rezolution or Infinity. These may not fit the 'big' bill, and Rezolution is set almost entirely on Earth, but they're much cooler than 40K or SST.

5150 is an interesting system but it really does require a group effort to work through the rules or, best bet, an experienced player to help you through them

I am sure Ed it a nice guy (just so people don't take this comment as a personal attack) but the rules really need an editor and need input from people that aren't familiar with the game. I had a heck of a time with the rules and I know that comments such as this typically elict a slew of "you need to play the game" or "I learned it via osmosis while sleeping it was so easy" comments from fans but my local group gave it a pass

This is actually a hell of a shame because there is really an interesting system in 5150 (and all of the THW) rules but its not really as accessible as it could be. Even better it has what appears to be a fun campaign system as well.

It suffers though from having too many people that are intimately familiar with the game and system working and commenting on it. It needs fresh eyes and a good edit and if it got both of those then it would be a really great skirmish system

Infinity
link

and Rezolution
link

reviews are up on TGN if anyone is interested

40k's Tyranids (sp?) are a lot like the ailens from starship troopers. as for MI you have lots of choices.

SWKearney, you might check out your local hobby/game store and see what is being played. Try out a few of the systems mentioned here to see if you like them before you take the plunge.

My main issue being in East Texas is there is no local gaming store. There is a Hobby Town and they carry a few Warhammer 40K items, but nobody meets there to game unfortunately. I have a buddy that I wargame with so we kind of pick what we play. We've been playing mostly WWII and sad attempt at WWI naval gaming (we have great looking fleets, though). We've needed something else as painting everything different shades of tan and brown is getting way old. Sci-fi skirmish looks like it might be fun.

Neither 40K nor SST are really skirmish games so if that is what you want then neight are going to fit the bill

If you're looking for small scale games then Infinity or Rezolution might be fun to play. Infinity is a pretty robust system and Rezolution is very "cinematic" in its feel and the quick and deadly action of the game.

Both games can be played with a small number of figures.

Well, I would suggest if your intersted in Sci-fi Skirmish. I would give Necromunda a chance.

You don't need all that many figures.

Seeing as your playing with a friend and not at stores, your free to use any figures your happy with. As long as you define what weapons are what(if you buy non-GW figures)

You can download the rules for free link

The best part is you can go wild painting any colors you want on your gangs.

And if you're only gaming with your buddy the lack of support for the game isn't a big deal

Necromunda requires a fair bit of terrain though. Mind you so does Infinity.

but anything is terrain for Necromunda.

So you need a lot of "anything" then :-)

I always liked the themed Necromunda tables more than the random bits of terrain tables we often did

This is actually a hell of a shame because there is really an interesting system in 5150 (and all of the THW) rules but its not really as accessible as it could be. Even better it has what appears to be a fun campaign system as well.

I guess it depends on whether or not you consider it worth the effort. I'm going to have to side with the "it seemed obvious to me after a simple read through" camp. There's also the yahoogroup which has dealt with any issues people might have-- so they're accessible with a simple search.

link

take a look at this set of rules I think you will like them and you cant beat the price, and you can use any minis you like..

For Skirmish level I'd highly recommend Rezolution. One of my favortite games. Urban War is another good skirmish game, and the nice thing is you can use the same minis and 75% of the rules and scale it up to a large 40k style battle level game with Metropolis.

For those that find 5150 a bit hard to grasp; I have a Flow chart that gives basic Step-by-Step directions on how to play basic combat in that game. I also made one for NUTS.
I have to agree with the poster above the rules could use a good editor and a step-by-step example that goes into great detail of a sample game. Maybe I will write one sometime

I still recommend 5150 lots of great support for that game, and it uses figures from a few different manufacturers, that you can or don't have to use as the rules can be used for just about any figure. Although they don't have rules for a robotic race yet.

………..Doug

AS far as 5150 goes…
From page 55 to page 58 is a detailed complete sample battle from start to finish. This includes how to generate encounters, figures, etc.

It gives an example in detail of every aspect of the game from determining troops to each reaction test you take. Everything…

It's probably the section of the book that never gets read.

As for editing, it is laid out in the exact order you use the rules in a game.

I really can't say much more about it.

First of all, buy 5150 and Stargrunt 2. Those two games have done a lot to advance scifi wargames design, and both Ed and mister Tufley are gentlemen.

Secondly, as it has been mentioned above, my Fast And Dirty rules give a great, straight forward and realistic gameplay.
Its also free (so you save money you can then use to order SG2 and 5150, and some minis to play with) at freewebs.com/weaselfierce

Hundvig 28 Jun 2007 12:12 p.m. PST:
"You might also want to take a look at Defiance from Majestic 12 Games, which really does a great job of letting you design both your individual troops and your army as a whole"

Hey, I'll second that! What a surprise (-;)
For a more complete treatment, see link

Anyway, on the original subject. Having played both Wh40k and SST, the latter has better rules and (arguably) quite neat enough miniatures, but it's going to go prepainted soon(ish) so I suppose that rules it out for you. Other "big skirmish" (I call them "battle") games I've extensively played and found quite good that are still commercially available and have neat, non-prepainted miniatures are Metropolis from Urban Mammoth and VOID from Scotia Grendel (the games are in fact pretty similar as the former is developed form the latter, but the minis are slightly different for the most part).

Stargrunt II (GZG)
Necromunda (GW) {I'm recommending a GW product – oh no, I am going to keel over and die}

Stargrunt can be played with anyone's figures, but GZG manufactures a great line of both humans and vehicles.
They even do aliens as well.
Plus, the rules and the figures are fairly inexpensive compared to most out there.

Necromunda is good if you like developing the same group of persons through a variety of skirmishes.
If that factor is not important, stay with Stargrunt.

Use 5150 and go to EM4 for a few figures to get you started. After that just grab whatever takes your fancy. SST, 40K, Copplestone etc. etc.
There's also Combat Zone by EM4 which is a bit more traditional in style than 5150 and a great game in its own right. I'd certainly take it over 40K.

I suggest just playing 40K. It is great fun. I like the idea of close combat….

Joe Collins

One better love the close combat, because if you have a squad of troops with modern assault rifles (rules equivilant lasgun/autogun) and 100 people are running at them across open ground from the extreme range of the weapon to poke you with a pointy stick, your squad of ten will kill on average, 10 people. And that's with the troops getting first turn. If it's the mob's turn, only 7.5 people on average will be dead.

Something is wrong when unarmoured people can run from the extreme range of a rifle and be confident that around 90% of them, on average, will get close enough to stab you with a knife.

Now, if you add a heavy bolter, that'll kill another 3.75 or 2.5 if the mob goes first. There's nothing quite like being able to charge across open ground at a machine gun nest and likely making it. Even if they start at the extreme range of the machine gun/heavy bolter, it'll only cause another 2.5 casualties on average.

If there's one thing to remember from 40k, it's that you should never bring a gun to a knife fight. And remember, if you charge a machine gun emplacement, you'll likely make it.

If you don't mind resetting the equipment and army lists, the basic 40k mechanic isn't bad. Many of the stated issues with 40k above are not rules, but their expression in the weapons lists. You want a real machine gun, it's a Heavy 6 or a burst weapon (for suppression).

Apply your fluff to the rules that work for you. Hammering on your fluff to fit *their* fluffed equipment will ultimately be unsatisfying.

I like SST however am now a bit tempted with 5150…hmmm must try them out

Stargrunt 2 is the best skirmish game I have ever played. The realism (for a minis game), tactics, and the game system itself were what I had been looking for in a game for a long time. Get it and try it out, but make sure you play more than once so you can get a true feel of the rules.

STARGUARD! is the granddaddy of all science fiction ground combat games. Still in print and still great fun. You can look it up here:

tin-soldier.com

Hope this helps!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Well, I'll add a voice for Defiance. Unparalleled troop and vehicle builder, handles big (for 28mm) battles VERY well, excellent for tournament or scenario style play, and you can build your army however you like it, even using the "Genre Rules" to create that "never bring a gun to a knife fight" feeling you crave, but faster and deadlier than 40K. Defiance works for 15 or 28mm and has Genre Rules for 6mm.

I recently convinced a fellow Reaper forumite to try Defiance and he was surprised just how impressive the game is.

That's not to say, at ALL, that other games out there aren't very good. But for a truly stunning troop builder, lots of options to use or ignore, and a rigorously balanced points system- my vote is for Defiance.

5150 IS MY FIRST CHOICE!

STARGRUNT II IS MY SECOND CHOICE!

STARSHIP TROOPERS IS NUMBER THREE CHOICE!

"This is actually a hell of a shame because there is really an interesting system in 5150 (and all of the THW) rules but its not really as accessible as it could be. Even better it has what appears to be a fun campaign system as well."

I CONFESS TO BE FAMILIAR WITH THE THW RULES SYSTEM, but i am confused when i read things like this.

5150 is a very easy set of rules to learn to play, and is divided into basic and advanced rules sections.

the hard part for some folks to get used to is the lack of GOD like control over your toys (except for MINI-YOU), no IGO-UGO system of doing stuff, and the way that actual tactics on the table top will either make or break your day . . .

DO NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO CHARGE ACROSS AN OPEN FIELD TOWARD AN ENEMY THAT IS ARMED WITH MODERN WEAPONRY, PLANNING TO GET INTO CONTACT (UNLESS YOU ARE A BUG!)!

DO NOT EVER THUMP YOUR CHEST WHILE STANDING OUT IN THE OPEN AND RECITING YOUR LINEAGE AS A FEAR FACTOR, EITHER.

DO NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO PLAY CODEX 40K LATEST RULES IN A GAME OF 5150 OR CH2.0!

FOLKS THAT DO ANY OF THE ABOVE LOSE, BADLY! GET FRUSTRATED!

THOSE GUYS IN COVER, WITH GUNS, WILL SHOOT YOUR BUTT OFF AS LONG AS THEY HAVE AMMO (AND AMMO OUTAGE IS A TEMPERARY PROBLEM UNLESS A SCENARIO STATES OTHERWISE)!

i am a long time 40K, SST, STARGUARD, SPACE MARINE (FGU-NOT GW), STRIKE FORCE ALPHA, STARGRUNT II, SHOCKFORCE, and TRAVELLER gamer. once i discovered the THW system, i have never looked back.

i am the very happy user of 5150, CR2.0, ATZ, FNG, NUTS!, SIXGUN SOUND, and all of the other THW rules.

come over to the yahoogroup for a look-see/walkabout, BUY a set of rules or maybe even check out the FREE PDF rules that are availble.

DAWGIE

Argh! My ears! ;) kidding

I will add that 5150 is much better explained than some of the previous sets. It took a while before Nuts "clicked" for us.

I'll second Dawgie's comments on what NOT to do in 5150..

On a sidenote The GZG ESU Heavy Inf arrived tonight (very nice) and some painting (i'm thinking a' la "classic" 1960s/70s Soviet Motor Rifles) is urgently required….