"The word 'Crap'" Topic

In certain English-speaking communities, this swear word is probably more offensive than ''. Yet '' is bleeped, but 'crap' is not. They both mean human or dog excreta.

To write 'S hit, I spelt that wrong' is not offensive perhaps, but to say that another poster or his opinions are '', and to do it repeatedly, is offensive, which is why it's bleeped.

Now some posters are freely using the worse 'crap' to direct at other posters on some boards, and complaints to the Editor have no effect – I suspect that he simply does not understand its offensiveness when directed towards a person.

I am loathe to start using it myself as I find it offensive to repeatedly say something like 'you only write crap' or 'that's crap'.

So should it be treated the same as '', or should I just accept that TMP (if you're not American), is now a swearing, humourless free-for all, and join in?

i would disagree with you, in the UK at least the word 'crap' in normal usage just really means rubbish, it has lost its more offensive meaning quite a while agoo.

regards

jim

I don't know what English-speaking communities you are referring to, but here in the UK the word 'crap' is considered mild in the extreme and many would not regard it as a swear word at all

Where do you draw the line???

I find the name Cacadore offensive (not really but hold on) do you now also start blocking that name too?

This is a very fine and dangerous line to walk.

From the time I was small we always used the word "crap." In Canada it was never considered as offensive as the "S" word. "Crap" has a secondary meaning here for simple garbage or clutter.

Gotta agree with Mike and fairoaks on this one.

In modern English 'Crap' just means something is rubbish.

Of course, the verb 'To Crap' has a very specific – and different – meaning, but the two are not really teh same.

link

CC

Appreciate the replies.
Sure, things you'd say to your mates are not the same as how you'd talk to strangers. Yet good debates are bought low by the use of this word.

So which option:
1) is it hypocritical to bleep '' on many boards (many but obviously not on this one!) yet allow 'crap'? Or

2)Should I simply loosen up and join in?

Can you give us examples of where it is offensive?
At the age of 36 I can quite honestly say that the word Crap has never been considered offensive in my life time.

Blimey is already banned if they ban crap as well I'll have no words left to complain about the world!

Cobblers? bit old school but if thats all I have left…. :)

Cacadore, I don't know if you received my reply to your original complaint, but in that email I cited the Random House dictionary – which says that "crap" can also be defined as meaning "nonsense," and therefore is not a word that can be auto-bleeped as its meaning depends on its context.

That's not fair Bill. By the same logic the word can be used as a term of affection as in "He's a lucky " or "you clever " therefore should not be bleeped because it also depends on the context :p

Try entering it here
link
and you get:
''Language Advisory The dictionary entry you requested contains language that may be considered offensive.Encarta takes seriously its responsibility both to encourage learning and to respect the…..etc crap [ krap ]

noun Definition:
1. an offensive term for nonsense, or something worthless or annoying
2. an offensive term for an act of passing solid waste matter out of the body through the anus
3. an offensive term for excrement

adjective Definition:
an offensive term meaning worthless, useless, or lacking in ability

I think the main problem, is that it's not used so much in the US and they view it differently. That would be a cultural bias?

There are many choices of milder words that would get the same point across. Why coarsen the language and civil discourse when one can exercise some imagination and use a different word? A gentleman should use those words instead.

Both words refer to either the the act of or the product of defecating.

Both words have passed into common, although not polite, parlance. Both can be used to indicate something unpleasant or nasty.

e.g.
A badly done job might be referred to as a "pile of c…"
Someone who has played a sneaky a dirty trick might be described as a "little s…"
Unbelievable excuses may be "a load of c…"
An awkward situation might be seen as "a bit s…ty"

Interestingly the "popular" uses seen to be evolving differently. In the examples I've give above it doesn't work in all cases to swap s… for c.. and vice versa.

I'm comfortable with both being bleeped. In spoken English you can make a judgement as to whether your immediate audience will be offended or not. If yopu are posting ona web site you have no idea about the sensibilities of some members of your audience.

Crap is a great word. To describe it as somehow lesser because it has a coarse association implies an unfamiliarity with the subtleties that the English language allows us.

The use of the word crap does not "coarsen the language." The English language started out coarse, had an influx of some French to try to make it straighten up which ultimately gave it much more flexibility in it's function than other languages that have purely romance or germanic roots.

So the fact that we can express coarseness with words like crap or eloquence with big words (z.B. cafeteria, count the syllables, baby) is one of the strengths of the language.

Crap is coarse and expresses coarseness not only in it's content but in it's feel as well. It is the perfect word for it's use. In many ways crap is much better than , which while vulgar doesn't have the same impact due to it's s beginning.

I say keep crap. Crap is king.

the Editor
''Cacadore, I don't know if you received my reply to your original complaint''

Didn't see it, but thanks.

''but in that email I cited the Random House dictionary – which says that "crap" can also be defined as meaning "nonsense,"……''

Random House is a US publisher and I accept it's mild in the US or Canada. But in the UK it's an offensive term, as offensive as '' – you might consider that you might possibly be guilty of a little cultural insensitivity here. If you look it up in British English dictionaries (like Oxford Uni. Press), you'll see what I mean.

I can also accept some UK posters don't mind it, but you'll find that these are people who don't mind '' either! Now there's no way you'd use that word to a boss, or in a formal situation, or to refer to a stranger's opinions, unless you really wanted to be offensive.

I'm asking you to accept that in my culture it means exactly the same as '', with the same offensiveness level.

But….if this is primarily a US site with isolated North American mores, then I'll accept it. But you might find some UK posters are going to get hot under the collar.

Regards

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
– C.S. Lewis, In Freedom

OK. So lets unbleep or else bleep both and crap.

Or we accept that it's fair game on TMP to offend UK posters, but not to offend US posters

Ah, bleep 'em all and be done with it. The minor loss in readability isn't worth the argument.

Cacadore shows a rare arrogance in attempting to speak for all UK posters

I couldn't give a about crap

"Now there's no way you'd use that word to a boss"

I have been known to use the word crap in conversations with management at my workplace. They didn't bat an eyelid. Its in fairly common use in the UK and is generally not considered to be swearing (as I think I said before).

You should join in. the crap is nice and warm and there's room for everyone.

Well, I don't think anything should be ed. I think we should all have the opportunity to be offended equally. After all, any of us could get on here and swear up a storm in any other language and none of that would be ed.

Cholera!

Crap may be pejorative, derogative, or disparaging, however to describe it as "offensive" seems a bit over the top. I'm sure we can all provide a list of words we think too "coarse" for polite genteel conversation, but then who would be happy with a rainbow that was just shades of gray? However, perhaps what TMP needs is a Genteel Board where only the most polite words and phrases are permitted in conversations? Consider that if we should remove objectionable "coarse" language from TMP, we'd lose the Napoleonics Boards, and it's one of the big three in historical minis. ;-)

That is how it all starts. First they come for your swear words, then they come for your guns, then you have the Liche King George all up in your face with zombie Red Coats everywhere moaning "Brains!!!!" Wait a minute that might make a fun what if game. Anybody know if somebody make Zombie Red Coats?

Great googamooga!

"After all, any of us could get on here and swear up a storm in any other language"

Merde! Whatever next :-)

Govno!

if you think crap is bad investigate that other english staple beloved of the middle and upper classes – Poppycock -
someone could have a fine old time being offended by that.
To my mind ANY word good enough for Chaucer should be good enough for the rest of us.

La Long Carabine has it right! This is political correctness or chip on the shoulder gone too far. And yes, I'm staring with irritated and raised eyebrows directly at Cacadore.

Well, as my old maiden tante used to say:

Baise moi, quel petit branleur.

Cacadore, maybe you live in a more refined area in the UK than most of us here in Essex but myself and the people i know would not think twice about the use of "crap" whereas the S… word is still considered a "real" swear word.

Maybe it is the dual meaning that crap has – it can be just a description or have a "swear" emphasis whereas S… has no "uncouth" meaning associated with it.

I feel Bill has called this right and there is a valid and real distinction between the two words to most people.

Can we still say Belgium? :)

Do not say Belgium!

Oh crap, I just said it!

Belgium's OK

You can't say Scunthorpe

Scunthorpe – is that in Belgium?

Nearly

well my mum would find it offensive, but I don't – but then I don't see why any of them are bleeped to be honest, but that's just my potty mouth…

as for my boss – we regularly swear at each other, it's fun and relieves the stress. In fact in the office we've introduced swear days where only one particular word is allowed. Testicular Tuesday is my personal favourite.

This whole thread strikes me as being similar to a little boy saying swear words in school, and then giggling when he says them, just to see what sort of reaction he will get.

I don't think that anyone is advocating a Genteel Board nor is there any attempt to curb free speech or inflict political correctness on anyone or on TMP. The words themselves don't offend me, but their continuous use points to a linguistic laziness on the part of the speaker.

Use the words that you see fit, but keep in mind that in public forums you are defined by the way that you speak in public and present yourself. One can choose to be a boorish lout, one can use the language to get attention or make an emphatic point if certain words are used sparingly, or one can choose to have good manners. The choice is yours. We all have a free will.

Cacadore has committed a dawghouseable offense of spelling out sugar in a way that confounds the filter. Others have been dawg'ed for this, but I would plead for leniency in Cacadore's case.

Caca adore is how old?

Now Cack in the UK is also a word used to describe or crap.

LOL !

The 'Cac'in Cacadore is pronounced CATH you idiots!
You are talking Poppycock!!

It's so stinking easy to 'offend' some tea-cozy no matter what you do… I say unbleep all the words and let the weak ones crawl under their doilies for protection.
How any arrangement of letters or sounds can honestly 'offend' anyone escapes me… you CHOOSE to take offense at those things because they are just as easily ignored.
If you're saying you're incapable of ignoring them then I'd say you're a child and shouldn't be left on public forums without supervision.

As a person who lives in Belgium, even though not Belgian, I find it offensive to see Belgium linked in any to Scunthorpe.

The reason 'crap' is allowed, but not it's synonym is probably because that is also the rule in US broadcast censorship.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't censor anything, but it's Bill's site / Bill's rules.

I'm a big fan of 'sticks & stones can break my bones, but names will never hurt me'. People are too sensitive these days.
-Kle.

Cacadore, I don't know if you received my reply to your original complaint…

Didn't see it…

Better check your TMP account, and see if the email address listed is current.

Dear Editor,
The words in the largest two UK dictionaries (Longman and Oxford keeps the largest word base in the world) are researched by members of the public in the UK, making notes of how people actually speak.

They both define 'S***' and 'crap' as having exactly the SAME offensiveness level:

The Penguin Dictionary defines 'crap' as 'coarse', exactly the same as 's***'.

The Oxford defines 'crap' as 'vulgar', exactly the same as 's***'.

The 'context' definition is spurious, even '' can be innofensive to friends. And some words offensive to Americans seem to get bleeped, even though they are not offensive to British posters – which is a form of discrimination.

But if someone I don't know uses that word 'c***' to me (and based upon UK researchers – the majority of people in the UK), then I am offended.

The issue is whether the bleep facility is used on TMP to protect the feelings of all native speakers, or just (seemingly parochial) Americans. Your quoting an American dictionary (Random House) to discuss something offensive outside of America is disappointing.

Will you at least look the two words up in a few on-line UK dictionaries before you make a judgement on their equality?