"10mm fantasy skirmish game....Am I just crazy?" Topic

I was wondering how hard it would be to convert 28mm skirmish games to 10mm scale. or to find skirmish rules for 10mm... I know..it's small miniatures for a skirmish.

thing is...i'm out of money...completly...money is over for me... and I think I want to try 10mm for a change because as I said..no money... but I LOVE skirmish games..I like the games that focus on the characters not the masses... is it even feasible to do this in 10mm.

as far as I can tell with most games it's just a matter of converting movement and range distances..

Let me know what y'all think..

Good Gaming

Why not? Check Germy's website, he's building a mini-dungeon for his 10mm fantasy figures.

germy.co.uk/minidun.htm

Check out the Mini Dungeon Project at www.germy.co.uk.

have you held a 10mm mini?

try 15mm, i think that's the absolute lowest scale possible for a skirmish game. they are also very cheap (cheapest would be old glory with their 12 dollar bags of 50).

are you not at all interested in mass battle games? i'd wager a 10mm element based game would still be cheaper than many 28mm games. you can always varyt he amount of minis you put on a base to represent an element as well. some element based games do include rules for characters and monsters, spells, details like that. in fact you'd probably need less minis on an element based game (ie. multiple figures per base representing a unit, 3 orcs on a 40mm base might represent a unit of 200) than on a troop heavy skirmish.

I have held a 10mm miniature yes. and I am aware of the mini dungeon project :P

that is actualy the reason I am consediring this. I am a big fan of dungeon crawler games(HeroQuest) and I like the idea of 10mm miniatures (15mm is no good for me because the dungeon is in 10mm. as well as warmaster) and I do have some interest in mass battle games but I am much more interested in character struggles... like the band of thieves trying to save there friend from the gallows. that sort of thing.

it just seems wierd that if I start buying all these miniatures for a dungeon why not use them for other games I enjoy as well.

So I don't supose anyone knows where to find 10mm skirmish rules? or a conversion chat for 28mm distances to 10mm distances...I guess that is actualy easy enough to figure out on my own :P

Good Gaming

Ogre13,

I would just find a set of rules you like and then convert ranges from 28mm to 10mm. Wouldn't be that difficult to do.

Skirmish games tend to be heavy on 'cover' and/or 'concealment'. When playing with 10mm figs, checking LoS can be a difficult thing to do. Using a laser pointer might not be practical in some cases. You might want to consider making a 'tabletop' periscope to get a model's eye view of the battlefield.

Personally I'd like to try 15mm skirmish - since I too love skirmish games, and I'd like to do it cheaply. Not too mention, there's a lot of ready made terrain in 15mm scale - I myself prefer outdoor engagements as opposed to dungeon crawls. But that's just me.

Good luck! Be sure to let us know how everything goes, including what rules you decide on.

Why convert distances at all? Most games have a ground scale, if they have one, that is way out of proportion to the figure scale. 10mm will just bring the two scales more into proportion. The ranges will look more'real'.

From 28mm to 10mm I would just changes the inches to centemeters. Should work out pretty well.

Martin

Martin's got the right idea for converting ground scale.

As for the size of the figs, you may need to go with bases that look a little too large in order to grip them. If so, the figs probably should have "cover by definition" if their base is touching a wall (for example).

Personally, I have pondered a SF skirmish game at a smaller scale, primarily to make bugs look right. Your Space Marine-type dudes would be one fig to a (20mm?) base, while the bugs would crowd four or five to a base. Of course, you'd still have two to three bug bases per Marine base -- they'd still die in droves -- but the game would, at least, look right.

What size games are you talking about when you think of skirmish? My game, SuperSystem (generally 5 models per side) is Skirmish, and Mordheim (5-10 models oer side) is also Skirmish. Is this what you're into? If so, there are plenty of cheap 25mm figs out there to fill the bill. However, if you're after 10mm for a new and unique gaming experience, I can get behind that too.

I'm just not sure about 10mm Skirmish myself, but I have played and enjoyed small games (1 squad per side) of Stargrunt at 15mm.

I do think Germy's site is very cool.

Scott

I am planning to use 15mm figs for a 28mm game without changing a thing. The only problem I am having is finding or deciding on what bases to use. I will be playing GW’s Warhammer Fantasy Battles – I really want to get into but I too have a lack of money. I was going to keep my movement and ranges all the same. I will have to alter the templates for any thing that uses them (I was planning to just divide in half for those).

Where are you cuz I am also looking to split with someone on some Old Glory figs?

PJ
(In Ottawa, Canada)

"Why convert distances at all? Most games have a ground scale, if they have one, that is way out of proportion to the figure scale. 10mm will just bring the two scales more into proportion. The ranges will look more'real'."

----- At long last, someone who thinks as I do! That is just exactly what I would have said. I remember my second Napoleonics game -- 25mm figures with 8 figures representing a British battalion. But they could only fire 6"! It just didn't look real. But replace them with 16 15mm figures and it looked great.

I'm about to depart from 25mm Star Grunt where average rifle range is about 40" (60" for the elite troops). I'm dropping down to 15mm but plan to leave ranges exactly as they are.

When I say skirmish I mean one figure to a base representing one warrior per model.

It can be anywhere from 1 model per side(intense duels) to 50 models per side(though this is a lot) and again the reason I am going 10mm and not 15mm is because the dungeon calls to me. and the there are cheap 25mm models. but once you start heading into the worlds of Ogres and Demons you start to lose money quickly.

And actualy I found 10mm models quite easy to grip and handle. I think this is a comon misconception..I think one thing that makes them so easy to handle is how small and light that they really are. think about your 28mm models that have a hard time standing up. the ones that THUNK and fall over when you set them on the table top. it's the top heavy ones. the ones with halberds and raised swords.

10mm models are really hard to get top heavy.. or just plain heavy at all :P

I had not thought about line of sight and cover..Hmm.. that is the one thing that'll make it hard.. I guess it's just gonna have to be agreed apon by players...i'm lucky enough to game with generouly reasonable people.

also 10mm scenery is cheap as well. so I can actualy make my warriors fighting in the middle of town sqaure and not lose all my money :p

Thanks for all the sugestions... when I get into this i'll take some pics and post em.

(Goes out to buy a centimer ruler

I am planning a 'Battles by Gaslight' game using individually based 10mm Pendraken figs, so you aren't any more crazy then I am, which isn't saying much. :) 'Battles' provides movement/weapon ranges for both 28mm and 15mm so I am all set on the Victorian Sci-Fi front. Have you considered Celtos? The rules are a free download and I think they are quite good. I have been tossing around the idea of playing it in 10mm myself.

Quote
["Why convert distances at all? Most games have a ground scale, if they have one, that is way out of proportion to the figure scale. 10mm will just bring the two scales more into proportion. The ranges will look more'real'."]

But what about move distances? In Warhammer a human moves eight inches running, which is roughly 40 feet. so that makes sense. 40 feet a round (considering it's the time it takes for a person to fight another person) in 10mm 8 inches is like 200 feet. that does not work so well...

I don't see any problem using 10mm at all. I'm in the middle of putting together Warhammer ECW using Pendraken. Each figure on its own little washer and magnetic movement bases. I plan to half the distances. I'm converting all my gaming to 10mm for the same reason that Ogre13 mentions: money. Plus, my back is shot (too many years on an assembly line!) and I'd like a game I can play sitting down. 10mm works for me!

Hell I still remember playing skirmih games using the original plastic Epic figures from GW. Back in our student days when we couldn´t afford expensive 28mm figs :-)

I have toyed with 6 mm Stargrunt 2 ideas and I say skirmish at 10 mm is certainly do-able; just playtest, playtest, playtest until you find sometyhing that works for you and your friends. Reality is optional in some cases... (grin)

Gracias,
Glenn

jmatrica -- What figs are you planning on using for your Battles by Gaslight game?

Hi Nazghash,

I am using Pendraken figs, British Colonials, Amazons, dinosaurs, Prussians, Egyptian myth figs (anubis warriors, mummy guard, mummies), sci-fi walkers plus some cool airships, and a large tank/landship from the Irregular 6mm line.

J.

I have no doubt this could be done, the biggest advantage for 'dungeon crawling' is you could have a good size 'dungeon' map, and you can have really big monsters (slip in a 15mm scaled one for instance). Give it a go!

I'm with Major, on this one.

Go Ogre, go!

10mm is KING!

Pendrake has a bunch of figures for you to use. As they are cast individually, you don't have to cut a strip to get your figures.

But of course, with Kallistra's and GW's strips you have a lot of options, so cutting is not at all frowned upon.

P.S.: I believe Perrin's and Irregular's are indivual casts, too. But I can't verify that little fact, right now. Anyway, go, Ogre, GO!

I'm glad I found this thread. Some friends wanted to game fantasy and since I'm in the process of scaling down, the thought of doing fantasy in 28mm didn't sound like something I'd be up for. I had some Copplestone Castings 10mm fantasy figs sitting around and they LOVED the sculpts, so we're going that route. I was beginning to think that was craziness, but if it is, it seems like I'm in good company. :)

-B6

i guess… 10mm.. might.. work just fine.. you could even.. mount like… a few figures to one base..

Ogre
at the risk of sounding like I'm just trying to sell my products, I suggest you give a look at songofblades.blogspot.com and read the reviews and info for Song of Blades and Heroes. It will set you back $5 USD and the measuring sticks used to skirmish in 15mm will work just fine with 10mm. I have seen battles with 10mm warmaster figures mounted on 1 cent coins ( pennies if you are in the UK ) and they do not look bad at all. 5 to 15 figs per palyer, 3d6 needed.

My suggestion is to play on a higher than normal table so the figures are closer to the eye level of players ( you can put a sheet of foamcore under your usual tabletop setup ) and you use SMALL dice to avoid they accidentally move all your figures around… but yes it can be done

I have also seen a magnetic surface used for that so your 10mms do not move by accident. You can carry the whole skirmish set in a shoe box.
Andrea

ganeshagames.blogspot.com

TMP's own Blacksmith ran the GW Orc's Drift skirmish campaign in 10mm.

Here's the link to the first report in his blog:
link

His figures look great.

Having just got into the Ganesha games "song of" series of rules I can vouch for Andreas comments – son and I are having great fun with just a handful of figures.

And yes 10mm for skirmish is definitely a runner – my son and I have several skirmish sets in 6mm and 10mm on 30cmx30cm and 45cmx45cm boards – works great for a quick game or if we want to leave something set up we can pop it in a drawer and carry on later. We also game in 20 and 28mm but dont always have the time or space so our smaller sets keep us gaming more often.

Ogre, go 10 mm without thinking twice. It's really cheap as you can buy many GW Warmaster blister in ebay for 1 GBP, at least the common ones.
Regarding rules to use with, I'm currently using WHAA from THW and halving distances and works for me.
Please, have a look at my 10mm. figures based individually:
link

Actually, I bought a load of 10mm figures for my husband to use with his 10mm dungeons in much this sort of role -- Pendraken were good enough to sell me individual characters from their regular fantasy range along with the dungeon feature ones. I think he's thinking of using the new version of D&D with them.

(They're still waiting on being based & painted and stuff…)

I would be very interested to hear how you get on. 10mm fantasy skirmish sounds interesting; 10mm figures are easy to paint and Pendraken has some excellent stuff. I have tried 'Songs of Blades and Heroes' and recommend it. I think that scenery for 10mm figures would be easy to make.

I have fumed on other threads about "do the rules work in a different scale?"

Of course they do! You don't need to halve distances- and those who said it makes vertical and horizontal close are right on the button.

But what about move distances? In Warhammer a human moves eight inches running, which is roughly 40 feet. so that makes sense. 40 feet a round (considering it's the time it takes for a person to fight another person) in 10mm 8 inches is like 200 feet. that does not work so well…

Doesn't work like that. You are assuming that one round of combat is 5-10 seconds. How many turns do you get to play before a result?- most battles would be less than 2 minutes long!

The only real change is the base, purely to stop the figure being swamped by the base, and so shield walls and fights etc don't look like they are being conducte with particpants 10 feel from each other! I'd suggest smaller than a uk penny.

One cent ( European ) coins work great for basing single 10mm if you can find them where you live ( they will stick to magnetic paper ) .

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