"My Sassanid 15mm photos on photobucket " Topic

I have made an album of all the photos i take of my Sassanids at various stages. My plan is to get a DBA, then a big battle DBA, then on to DBM, DBMM and whatever else i can use it for by adding a couple of bits and pieces.

Currently it is mainly pics of levy as that is where i started with prep and painting but hopefully it will bulk out fairly quickly.

The green bits on the raw figures are where i have "added" to the fig in some way for those uninitiated in the ways of green stuff

I am trying to do in the raw photos against the scale guide on my cuttting board (each line is 10mm). This is to show the figures "in the flesh" as it where, without my painting adding or hiding anything.

I also intend to add finished bases as soon as they are ready. I hope this is of interest to people, i had planned a web site but there aint enough hours in the day at the moment so i thought that at least this way people can see the pics.

link

Hi Stewbags,

By all means continue posting this! It is interesting both for the painting info and the pix of the various manufacturer's figures.

Good work!

Bill

I think we'll be seeing some more soon! By the way, Stweart, the packet I sent you took four days to get to the UK; a packet I sent simultaneously to an address just 100 miles away in California just got there this morning: five days longer to get to the other side of Los Angeles than to get to you!

Allen

*Stewart*!!! Sorry…

Allen

Haha, sounds like your postal service is even worse that the uk!!! Actualy i should not complain, we are quite lucky in the uk for post.

I should have some painted figs on there soon (oh cripes, exposing my painting to the world!!!). I will make a note when i add new stuff.

Some day (when i have got a working army) i will put a little time in and sort out a web site to add some thoughts and musings to the pics. I have the bare bones HTML sorted already but need to sort hosting as well as the "look" and stuff. I figure links and sugested reading would also be good.

I have added all the levy, light cavalry and foot command figs i have managed to track down.

I have also added the metal mercenaries camp pack figs, a cataphract bringing a draco standard to some mobad priests who are worshiping a fire altar. The draco has been won in combat and is to be offered as a sacrafice in the fire. I reckon this will make a cool baggage element for my DBM/MM force.

I will have some painted figs to show as well soon as i get the bases sorted, was having trouble getting a colour i was happy with. Think i have it now but need to get on with applying it ;)

Bwa-Ha-Ha, you will suffer the wrath of my painting.

I have added my DBA camp (bauda tent, essex arab camel train leader, irregular and essex camels, scratch built pile of shields), 3 bases of light cav and 2 bases of levy. They have yet to get their bases grassed, i am awaiting my dads noch static grass gun's arrival before that happens.

Just strung the bows on my 3 bases of psoli so i expect that they will be next unless the elephants take over again!!

Excellent work. More gamers should volunteer this for their fellows.

Did you use a scanner or camera when taking your comparisons?

The grid background. What is it and where did you find it. I've got a shed-load of figures that I now want to compare and share with others and feel this format appears to be the way to go.

Madcam.

I used a sony dsc w5 camera that i pinched from my dad. Only problem is that it is a point and shoot camera with a fair macro function on it but the pics have gone a bit "goldfish bowl".

The background is a self repairing cutting board which seemed perfect for the job in hand as it gives a breath scale as well (which allows you to spot the shetlands and the cart horses as well as bulky fellows and skinny ones)

Not worked out how i will do elephants yet, prob the same way i guess but with the crews seperate.

I like this format because it is damn easy and quick to do.

"is to be offered as a sacrifice in the fire."

Arrrrggghhhhh!!!!! No it's NOT! NO WAY would any zoroastrian contaminate the sacred fire with anything as polluted as a battle-banner!!!

Those priests are wearing veils so that they won't contaminate the fire by breathing on it!

Thanks for putting the pics up Stewbags.

KK, sorry Steve I clearly need to read up on my Zoroastrianism!!! I was wondering what the veils were about.

What is the story with the priests and the Draco then, are they un-connected or what, I don't want to put them together incorrectly, that would su-diddly-uck if I found out later!!!

I have added some pics of the miniature wars Gothics and Issurains that I have decided to use as Daylamites, Sources are limited as to what these guys look like but heavy shields and trousers, along with the blurb associated with the Issurian pic in the Montvert ‘Justinian..' book pointed me at them as a good enough match to my mind.

I have replaced their spears with zupins (double headed spears) made from brass pinched at both ends and shaped. I have covered the bare planking of one of the gothic chaps shields and added a cloak to the one duplicate figure amongst the bunch to make them all different. I wonder if they should have longer jackets but it is too late cos I have primed them now so I am not going to add them now!!!

I have also managed to bend my strung bows and break the string off 3 times during their painting process so I am thinking that as I have replaced all the spears then why not replace the bows as well!!! I am sure that bending them out of brass rod will get a more resilient bow and consistent look. I think I may need a dry run or 2, maybe a dye for a drawn bow and a dye for an un-drawn one would be useful as the recurve bow is quite a complex shape. Anyone have any experience of this? Am I mad?

I am also thinking that I will remove/replace the moulded on arrows as well cos they all are holding their arrows across the backside of the bow which I believe is wrong for the Persian grip. They also do not have their firing hands fingers flat out holding the arrow to the bow in the way they should, we shall see how anal I am feeling when I get back to the psoli.

Also this does set a scary precedent when I get to the standard Asvarian!!!! One of my pet bugbears here is a lack of left handers who were very highly regarded in the Sassanid military.

I have also prepped, re-speared and primed the Cataphract Asvarian figs. I hope that I will be adding lots of new pics soon but I have used figs and horses (generally unmatched by manufacturer) from Minifigs, Donnington, AB, OG15, Essex, Irregular, Lancashire. I am super happy with these guys already, they look cool. I have added a Draco for each base as well to add some more colour.

My reasoning on the camp scene was that the prince is bringing the captured draco to give thanks to Ormazd, before depositing it somewhere else (The general's tent?) But you could use the figures quite differently, the prince presenting the standard to a general figure, e.g.

My research was from a library book, PERSIAN MYTHOLOGY by John R Hinnels, 'Library of the World's Myths and Legends' Newnes Books 1973 Hinnels is (was?) a Professor of Comparative Religion at Manchester Uni- and a Zoroastrian specialist. Priests' robes and vestments are completely white. The one holding something has a ritual wand, (a 'thursoom' if I remember rightly) If you get hold of that book you'll see the photo of the modern altar I copied. It's a v interesting book.

Cool, i will have to track it down, glad you mentioned the robes should be white, i was wondering that as well!!!

Yes, all white, turban, sash, everything. Altar is shiny silver metal

BRILLIANT, i was going to paint it bronze. Steve, you are a star.

Where in the Uk are you Stewbags? Apparently there is a Zoroastrian temple in London, you might like to attend a service if you really want to clue up on this.

… one in Harrow, apparently.

Googling I found link

even if you only glance at it it gives you an idea of how involved and earnest the tending of the fire altar is… there is a diagram of different orientations the priest takes up around the censer at different times of the ceremonies.

I can't find any mention of the type of metal, so perhaps that is not important. You might like to google on boi or bui ceremony, for more info.

That site above draws out parallels between the Zoroastrian 'navar' and the Christian 'knight'. The mace, or gurz, has spiritual symbolism in the same way that the knight's cross-hilted broadsword did. So my concept of the Sassanid knight paying his devotions seems approriate?

Altars burn sandalwood. The head priest is called a dastur, the under priest a mobad.

Some great terms in this religion!

I took my daughter to the British Museum last week, stumbled across the 'Sasanian Gallery' [sic] which adjoins the Egyptian mummy rooms on the top floor. There are silver and gilt swords and 3 helmets from Nineveh that turned up in a strange 'cache' of helmets… some nice coins, glassware etc.

I am planning a visit as soon as i get a free day, sounds very interesting.

I have updated all the pics so the painted ones have manufacturer information on the phots. I have also added the cataphracts i have just finished (and the photos allowed me to spot a couple of bits i missed, mainly on the kontos).

Great! keep painting…

Does anyone have any opinions on headgear for Sassanid's, especially infantry scum. I am trying to make an all period force and i reckon that turbans and phygan(?) caps are appropriate, as well as an occasional looted helmet and lower cap (which looks a bit like a felt pilos helmet to me).

A good 50% or more of all models of levy that i have found have the high domed Sassanid felt hat so i am removing these on a lot of minis and replacing as i see fit with different hats or leaving bare headed by adding hair to cover the work scar on the figure. I have 2 figs (ab and miniature wars) with phygan caps already but i think i will make some more, however they look a little more fiddly to make what with the forward folded tip and all.

Anyone have good pics of what Iranian (Sassanid/Kushan) turbans looked like at this time? I believe from the little info i have been able to find (McBride pics and some wall pics of hunts, etc) they were the type with the knot on, as worn by young Seiks today, as appose to the way it is worn by modern adult Seiks. Either type looks darned fiddly to make in 15mm, if one is correct and not the other i would rather know now and get it right first time. Any turban experts out there.

Finally is the Fez a later addition to headgear for this region? I know that it is often depicted in films with a turban around it and worn by late middle ages / renaissance and later turks, is it way out of period in Sassanid times?

"…….a cataphract bringing a draco standard to some mobad priests who are worshiping a fire altar. The draco has been won in combat and is to be offered as a sacrafice in the fire."

"Arrrrggghhhhh!!!!! No it's NOT! NO WAY would any zoroastrian contaminate the sacred fire with anything as polluted as a battle-banner!!! "

Did the Sassanids not use Draco standards? The Saka, Sarmation and Parthians used dragon motif wind sock type standards for ever. The Romans borrowed this from the Iranians.

Also, Sassanid religious affiliation is somewhat jumbled. Religions that started in Iran were Mithraism, Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism. Add to that Christianity and Buddhism.

BTW, nice pictures.

Ralph

Thanks Ralph, just taken a few more. I have started to add details like stripes and dots and borders on clothes so they look even nicer now. Have painted and photographed some archers, daylamites and an elephant, will add pics as soon as i get a chance.

Also sorted out the bases a bit further, they look better now but the bloomin grass gun has not shown up yet!!!

Sassanids did use draco's, or at least the carvings found in egypt seem to show them doing so. I have all my DBA Kn bases with a draco per base, i am going to use flags for the cav bases.

You are right, the Iranic peoples were a breeding ground for religions.

Stewbags- if you can get hold of Graham Cookson he might be able to supply you seperate heads for your conversions. ie heads in phrygian caps created for the C3rd roman range etc

Sweet, I will see what I can do.

I am aware that I have not painted any of 'your' figs yet btw Steve, this is because I had a big batch of figs primed, cleaned and ready to go before I managed to get hold of the metal mercenary figs from Graham. The next batch I do will include your bad boys I promise, think I might do the fire temple set as a DBM baggage element next, all white cloaks should be easy and quick to do and I have some ideas as to how I can 'augment' the smoke from the fire.

I am also planning a royal boar hunting party vignette with an elephant carrying the catch (based on a McBride pic I have), another royal hunting party after lions (based on some pics of plates I have in various books), a baggage caravan with merchants and guards and a royal party with escort vignette to use as DBM baggage elements, seems a good way to provide the occasional distraction from the military themes which are obviously present in the construction of an army!!!!

Photos updated with psoli, daylamit aux, an elephant and some extra detailing on the paint jobs of some of the existing figures.

I have also re-speared, cleaned up and primed 24 cavalry and the fire temple vingette. I am 1/2 way through 2 more bases of levy so i guess it is them, then the fire temple and then cavalry. Cool, i am realy enjoying this know the army is begining to get some substance to it!!!

Anyone know where i might get some boars? I guess fantasy boar riders would be a good place to go, does anyone make oustized 10 or proper sized 15mm ones without the orcs molded on them? Hacking the orcs off would be easy enough but not having to do that would be even easier!!!

Also Lions, i know irregular do one (as well as a tiger), anyone else do these as well? I would need a few to make a small pride which is being hunted into oblivion…

"I have some ideas as to how I can 'augment' the smoke from the fire."

The one critical point in the Miniature Wargames review of my set was that Iain Dickie thought the altar was already giving off too much smoke! A smoking fire also features in my Roman camp set.

Ha ha, i was going to use some cotton wool and glue to add some texture to the surface but decided not to in the end.

Yeah, i have the roman camp as well for my son's middle imperial roman army.

Of course, no idea of knowing whether ID has ever seen a fire altar to be able to comment… but he is a Sassanid buff.

Yeah the roman set was pretty neat too. A cavalry man helping in a wounded comrade, a surgeon, 2 sentries, a camp fire, some casualties.

Yeah, it is a sweet set, the sentries look pretty bored and one is drinking iirc.

I am dead chuffed at my son'd first attempts at painting (donnington MIR DBA pack), much better than anything i did at his age (11). I hope my hand is helping him a little but he is a creative and artistic little tike so it is prob all him.

I have found that a couple of games every now and again helps keep him engaged and he is picking up HOTT and DBA very quickly (kicked my butt in the second DBA game we played and totally swept his flank as i sat and did little of any use on mine in a 2 on 2 HOTT game).

I just went looking for a description of the Mobad's wand and found this:

"The baresman (Phl. barsom), or sacred bundle of twigs (or "slender wands"), is a ritual implement which has played an important part in Zoroastrian religious practices since prehistoric times."

Full link

I was wondering how to paint it and now I know. Who would have thought that painting some little figures would drag me through the beliefs and practices of a religion I was barely aware of before.

I spend my last 2 lunch breaks in Southampton central reference library reading The Cambridge History of Iran V3 (2 parts). They are so expensive and scholarly that I am not allowed to take them out of the library. This may be just as well cos they are super heavy.

Blimey, I think I may be becoming a little obsessed…

And to think people see us as overgrown boys playing with toy soldiers!

"The next batch I do will include your bad boys"

Shouldn't that be my mobad boys?

Haha, touché. I have some of your cavalry in with this batch of asvari, looking forward to painting them up but i am suffering from tired eyes at the moment, hope to crack on with them soon, bloomin back to work after a 2 week holiday, zzzzzzzzz.

Could you convert your research into an article that would appeal to wargamers? I bet MINIATURE WARGAMES would consider it.

What the heck are asvari? This is getting like a Trekkie convention with people speaking Klingon, what would a Sassanid fan group be, Sassanoids, Sassanettes? Sassinsanians?

Mobad, Mobad, you know it, Mobad, and I hope we'll have a very fine fire , you can waft it once again MOBAD!!!

Asavari are going to be a varient spelling of asavaran – the cavalry in other words. Later asawira in Arab accounts.

A "Sassanid fan group" would be one that can't spell Sasanid properly ;-)

Haha, all praise the pedant. Oi, that's my Job!! ;)

Aren't there several ways to spell and pronounce most of these words? Pahlavi to English translation is not a cut and dried affair as far as I can tell, not that I can speak the former language (or the latter in fact with any particular eloquence).

Asvari, Suvarian, Asvarian.
Sasanid, Sassanid, Sasanian.

Google wants me to change a search of Sasanid to Sassanid, as does Wikipedia. I appreciate however that the people who programme these may not be massively interested in ancient history so in no way am I saying they are right, just interesting though.

Steve, as Nik says the Asvari/Asvarian/Suvarian are the noble Sassanid (sorry, that is the spelling i normaly use) cavalry. I don't know if this is what they called themselves but in most of the contemporary stuff I have read they are referred to as one of these names. This covers the Sassanid troops listed in most figure catalogues as Cataphracts and Cilbanari.

OSPREY calls them 'Sassanids', the British Museum 'Sasanians'

I just read a further instalment of the Cambridge History of Iran V3 at the reference libary. This uses Sasanid as Nik sugests. I guess they are a pretty reliable source of information ;)

Sasanid is the more usual academic/professional way – Ardashir's grandfather (?) was, after all, called Sasan and it is usually spelt that way even in books that call them Sassanids …

Good point Nik, i had forgotten about Sasan.

Hey, colds (mine and my families) have stoppend my painting steam train recently, however last night i got the camera out and added loads of pic's of raw unpainted stuff as i was having a sort through.

I also had a good look at the painted stuff and was horified to see

A – how bad a photogropher i am (blimy i am bad!!!)
B – how many bits i missed and sloppy soft edges i have left(damn hi-res pics)

Again i hope these are of interest, steve there are some of your boys here.

Received a package from Viking Forge today, including in it some of each of their Sassanid minis. I have snapped pics of all of them (except the ele which will require some glue first) as well as a shed load of others.

Viking Forge, what a lovely company, thanks for the prompt service, great products and your generosity.

Obviously Sasan wasn't spelt 'Sasan' it was originally spelt in whatever script the Persians used, which may have more than one 'correct' way to transliterate into Roman script.