"T-28 vs T-35" Topic

"I have a magazine style publication in Russian (a friend got it for me from the MOscow military museum in the late 90s along with a pile of Premo/Rocco T-35s and T-28s for about a dollar per model!). I've never had it translated, but that list looks like it comes from that publication."

The book I mentioned, "Land Battleships: The Russian T-35 Heavy Tank" has, in its preface the following statement:
"This publication is based on the book "T-35" by Maxim Kolomiets published in the Bronekollektsia series in 1995. This English-language book encompasses the original Russian title but has also expanded on the original text, providing additional information on the SU-14 self-propelled gun developments and including new material on the development of the T-45 from the original TG tank concept".

I suspect the original they reference is the book you have. The complete list provided above of tanks by seriel number is included in this book. I also have their equally excellent T-28 book and I know they do a BT series one. If you do models, especially 1/35th, this is an excellent resource!

Marc

Okay, I've deciphered the map of losses above as best I can and cross-referenced it with the list of losses and modern maps. I figured I'd post it here in case anybody else is interested and hasn't done it themselves, already.

First, the place-names on the map. In cases where the modern name differs, I've shown it in parentheses.
Starting from the west side of the map:

The two westernmost towns I can't decipher through transliteration or camparison with modern maps – these would be the one on the very western map-edge, and the south-western one near the '22.VI.' marking.

Proceeding east, we reach the 'starting point' of Sadovaya Vishnya (Sudova Vysnja).

To the north is Iavorov (Novojavorivs'ke).

Next, SE of there, is Grudek (Horodok).

Then to the east, the large city of L'vov (L'viv).

Following the solid arrows, we reach Zapytov (Zapytiv), then Krasne, Buek (Bus'k), Ozhidev (Ozydiv), and Olesno (Oles'ko).

South of there, along the dashed arrows to the SE we find:
Belokamenka (Bilyj Kamin'), Sosovo (Sasiv), Zlochuv (Zolociv), and Zborov (Zboriv).

Due East of Zborov, on the southbound dashed arrow, we find Ivankovtzy (Jvankivci).

The two dashed arrows meet at Tornoplo (Ternopil), and continue east to Volochisk (Volocys'ic).

Returning to the solid arrow to the north, NE of Olesno we find Brodu (Brody), then Sitno (Sytne) where the arrows split, then Verba and Ptich'e (Ptyca), and finally Dubno.

To the west of Dubno, the town the German attck appears to originate from is Berestechko (Berestecko).

There are several localities in the list of losses that I can't place on the map:
Zhidin Town, Byaozheno Villiage, and Dzerdzune Villiage might be off the map to the east or southeast, judging by the dates.

Zapit' Town/Villiage might be Zapytov (?).

Transliteration didn't help me much with the map keys, so the following is the result of cross-reference and inference:

In the lower map key, the 'empty' parallelogram seems to indicate vehicles abandoned because they were in depot-level maintenance, the 'half-full' parallelogram, vehicles lost due to crew action (breakdown, bogging, falling off bridges), and the 'full' parallelogram, vehicles destroyed by the enemy.

In the upper map key, the solid 'inclusion area' might mean base, or HQ, or something of that nature.

The dashed 'inclusion area' seems to be refuelling stops, or rally points, or possibly endpoints of daily movement.

The thin sold arrows seem to be movement toward enemy positions, the thick solid arrows seem to indicate attacks, and the dashed arrows seem to indicate retreats from the enemy. The things that look like defensive lines are probably just that.

I surmise that the outline arrows (not on the key) are German attacks.

From what I can tell, the 8th mechanized corps moved out to support the defensive positions south of Dubno and between / along either the Bug and Styr rivers or Styr and Goryn (my atlases aren't good enough for me to be sure). All the T-35s seem to have started out either in Sadovaya Vishnya or Grudek. Some of the tanks eventually reached Verba and Ptich'e, where they participated in an attack towards Dubno, and several were knocked out. Surviving tanks then retreated towards Tornopol and Volochisk.

There also seems to have been a general retreat from the vicinity of Krasne, perhaps because some were defending in that area, or perhaps because part of the column came under attack en route to the NE. There is some evidence that the latter may be the case – one tank destroyed by the enemy near Belo-Kamenka, and a tank in Grudek town with a blown clutch also 'run out of ammo'.

There is also some evidence that some tanks that broke down during the movement towards Dubno retained their crews to effect repairs – a tank lost to breakdown on July 3, still in Zapytov, and the 'retreat' arrow from L'vov. These and the retreat from the Krasne area might instead be indicative of the use of the tanks in small numbers for infantry support.

An interesting aside is that the list of losses only accounts for 48 vehicles, leaving open the possibility that some vehicles might have successfully withdrawn east of Volochisk, or have been in another location – perhaps the ones reportedly used in the battle of Moscow.
-Kle.

None withdrew successfully, there were only 48 in the 8th Mech Corps. Total for all T-35s as previously reported:

8th Mechanized Corps (67 & 68 Tank Regiments, 34th Tank Division)--48 tanks
VAMM (Moscow Military District)--2
2nd Saratov and Kazan Tank Schools--6
KhPZ plant (for captial repair)--5 tanks.

EXCELLENT work on deciphering the map by the way, has to be some good scenarios in there!

That's really interesting – the whole force of T-35s is accounted for. It would appear that all but 3 or 4 simply broke down during the retreat. Presumably the VAMM pair were either expended or broke down during the counterattack.

Oky, from new information I recieved over in the 'German Barbarossa units' thread, I'm pretty sure the narrow solid arrow in the top map key is something like 'route of 34th Tank Division' and the wide solid arrow is something like 'attack of 34th TD'.

mghFond & Frontovik provided some great data, including a link to an account of the action depicted on the map.
Thanks!

Apparently, it shows the concentration of the 8th Mechanized Corps at Brody from it's (widely) dispersed starting positions, travelling in small seperate columns.

Once it arrived, it joined with other Soviet forces in an attack on the 11th & 16th Panzer Divisions, which had got out in front of the rest of their forces in Dubno. More Soviet forces were attacking from the NE, but never linked up. The 8th got encircled, and then broke out to the SE.

Sounds rich with possibilities for historical scenarios involving small numbers of T-35s! Quite a hodgepodge of other tanks were available, too – BTs, T-26, small numbers of T-34 and KVs, all intermingled in scratch formations.

It does appear (considering the dates and timeline) that some of the T-35s might well have fought all the way through the attack, encirclement, and breakout, only to be lost to mechanical failure while falling back towards the old Soviet-Polish border.
-Kle.