"Sniper priests in the Spanish Civil War?" Topic

In the movie "Land and Freedom" there is a scene where a priest is sniping at Republicans entering a village. It is apparently a true story. By chance I found this on the internet:

link

"There was a priest in the church steeple firing at us and when he came down he pushed the villagers to shield him while he kept shooting. One of the men from the American battalion shot him dead."

Any other info on priests participating in the fighting of the SCW?

Not on priests but I had a nun in the third grade who could pick off a smart ass in the back of the room with an eraser. If the windows were open she could account for windage during her windup.

Peter Kemp noted that as a Nationalist soldier he had trouble aiming because a Carlist Chaplain was yelling to kill the godless sons of whatevers. Seems that both Carlists and Basques employed priests (chaplains) in the front lines though the Basques did not carry firearms. Some accounts show the Carlist Capellanes (Chaplains) often getting in the way of NCO and Officer orders as they whipped troops up into a frenzy to attack. Carlist units quickly became the Shock troops of the Nationalists as attrition took it's toll on the Elite Spanish Foreign Legionaires and Veteran Moroccans.

Side note, the Basques were the only forces in the Republican army to maintain Chaplains.

Doc

Priests and cross bearers were present with Carlist forces, thew troops were blessed before going into battle, and were often accompanied at the front by Chaplains and priests.

There are a number of stories relating to armed priests defending their churches, they would get short shrift from republican tropps, especially in the early stages of the war. Large amounts of churches were burnt out, or put to use for other things.
There are some gruesome pictures of corpses put on display by Republican forces when they emptied the crypts of religious buildings.

really must get around to asking Paul to sculpt me a rabid Carlist priest!!

Nigel H
Anglian Miniatures

Doc,

in that case, the only question that remains is where we can find a priest figure to convert into a Nationalist fighter?

Hey, I've been asking for this for awhile :) I would also like to see Euzko Gudaroztea, Basque Militias and armed forces especially their Security forces which were supposedly on par with the Carabineros. Lots of stuff to do for this range out there.

Will soon have some more SCW photos on the Displaced Minis site.

Doc

Villageidiot wrote:

"There are a number of stories relating to armed priests defending their churches, they would get short shrift from republican tropps, especially in the early stages of the war."

In the early stages of the war the republicans would usually shot or worse any priest they got their hands on, irrespective of whether they were armed or not. The other side was doing the same to sindicalists, freemasons, etc.

Sometimes I wonder the subjects some people choose for their wargames

It was

I don't think anyone mentioned gaming unarmed civilians in the "Limpieza" or in the purges conducted by the Left. The above references were to combatants who picked a side, bore arms, and fought for what it was they believed in. ANY period of gaming could be scrutinized under your standard of judgement.

IMHO,
Doc

Doc,
Where did you find Kemp's book? I've been searching for that for ages.
Nivk

Priests participated in most wars AND many wars was fought because OF priests and religion. The Spanish Civil War is no exception. Enough of morals. What did the Spanish priests look like so we can put them on the wargames table where they belong?

Very traditional. A long, black cassock.

Hey Nick,

Kemp's book is like the Holy Grail of SCW isn't it :) ? I still haven't found a copy yet, but I read all of the full references in every book I come across for more insight. The reference above was in Anthony Beevor's "Battle for Spain" in the Jarama chapter, but there is a more extensive look at Kemp's experiences in the book "Fighting for Franco" by Judith Keene.

How are those Milicianos you got coming along?

Doc

Doc,
Yep, I think its because it is the only decent memoir by a Fascist. Half of the Militia are done, I did they as Durutti's mob.

Irregular Miniatures do Priests and Nuns for the SCW including a rilfe armed militant priest.

Bandera do a cross carrying Carlist chaplain.

You can get Peter Kemp's book from the British Library on interlibrary loan through a local library in the UK. This book is also in many bigger university libraries, and big Public Libraries.

For bibliographic details, the British Library site is good, or Copac.

It is a good book. The priest Kemp describes, while sounding like a genuine fanatic, never, as far as I can remember, carried weapons. Some priests might have done, but, it was a favourite propaganda image of the Republicans anyway. I don't think Land and Freedom is a bad film, but, it is packed with sometimes straight forward and uncritical propaganist images.

The Nationalist government printed a book called the 'General Cause: The Red Domination in Spain' which has photos of priests and nuns republicans murdered or mutilated. It is quite gross. I don't think there is any similar book made by the Republicans of Nationalist atrocities.

Doc Merkury,

I don't think the Carlist units were ever the only shock troops of the Nationalist Army; some better units, but many were also not considered of high quality.

The author of a recent book on the Nationalist Army, Jose Semprun, writes some interesting things about the Nationalist 'Fuerzas de Choque':

'The 'Unidades de Choque', were those of the Army of Africa, the CTV, and, after the first few months, some of the Militia units' p.21

'With some exceptions, the draftees (talking about the conscripts who made up the mass of the Nationalist Army) showed a much lower level of combative spirit than the volunteers, and evidently compared to those volunteers in elite units, like the Legion and the Regulares, and also compared to that of the Italian volunteers.' p.20

This author also considers that the value of the militia units declined as more people who were not genuine volunteers volunteered to preempt conscription, or else to escape political persecution. There were also a small number of conscript units that were considered 'Unidades de Choque'

Thanks Coconuts.

I didn't mean to imply that the Carlists were the only Nationalist "Shock" units, just that as the progressed many gained notoriety for that especially in the northern campaign. As you said some were and some were not though.

On a whole one could judge troop quality on a constant argument, for instance one could say that the Spanish Foreign Legion were elites, but what about the Irish Bandera and the French Bandera? Not so Elite, more like Green. And look at the late war Legion, sure they had great equipment, but much off the battle hardened cadre was gone from the exploits of '36 and '37 leaving a much less experienced pool of soldiers in comparison to before.

I think it all depends on your measuring device and for wargaming we have some conceived archetypes for each period and SCW is no less exempt.

Personally I think the Paramilitary forces participation in the war are one of the most excluded.

cheers,
Doc

Coconuts,
Thanks for the info on Kemp. I think though that it is a book I would want to keep.

What is really fascinating, is that I have been studying the SCW for close to 30 years, and this is the first time I have seen such interest in it.
Arriba Espana!

Nick: I became interested in the SCW just a short time ago: after reading here and there some I saw the Anglia Miniatures and was hooked. So now I slowly build a "library" (Anthony Beevor, Gabriel Jackson and two Ospreys, nr 74 and nr 161) with hopefully more to come. For me the Anglia figures were definitely the start and perhaps for more people than just me…

Jason Gurney and American who fought with the British Battalion at Jarama said that the one thing he never understood about the conflict in Spain was the hatred and violence shown to the church and its Priests & Nuns….

I watched a documentory last year about two Welshmen who when to fight in Spain, one Republican the other Nationalist. The Guy who joined Franco was a devote Catholic and said his reasons for fighting for the Nationalists was only due to the republican treatment of the church and her priests/nuns.

I`ve always thought that the "Priest sniping from the church tower" was a urban myth. Antony Beever in his "The Spanish Civil War" seems to agree with me.

The hatred towards the church could be put down to the dominance that the Catholic church had in Spain prior to the voting in of the Republican government. The Supporters of the Republic saw the church as siding with the Nationalist side, and perhaps felt that is was time to put the church into place. Religion and Socialism never made happy bedfellows.
Thre Catholic church did however draw in a lot of support for Franco, especially from the Americans, who were happy to supply him with Petrol, Rubber and Vehicles via Portugal!!

I will never condone any game that involves the shooting of civilians as an intregral part of the game. The reason why I produce a range of figures for the SCW, is because I find the conflict compelling on so many levels.

For a Carlist Chaplain, I'm going to lop off the head of my International Brigade Commissar, replace it with a Carlist head, then model one of those scarf type garments out of lead foil to put round his shoulders.

Nigel H

BTW , Last time I saw a Copy of "Mine were of Trouble" the Peter Kemp book it was selling on Abeboks for £120!!!!

I have also seen Peter Kemp's book selling for similar prices. There is a Spanish translation of it though as well, I have the details of it somewhere, and I think it is both easier to find, and much cheaper usually than the English one.

Another possibility is to borrow it from a library and photocopy it. This is time consuming, but with some books I think it can be worth it. When I was at university I copied some books this way, because, apart from the tedium of actually doing it, it can save you a lot of money or give you the chance to have a copy of some really rare, and otherwise unobtainable, books. When I think about this now, I wonder about the university library having let me borrow some of them in the first place.

Doc Merkury,

I think you are right about the para-military forces. Many of the elite Brigades of the Republican Army were carabineros brigades, and the assault guards also were well represented in the Republican armies right until the end of the war. The Nationalists also made use, at different times, of these forces, though I don't get the impression to the same extent as the Republicans. I have noted down some titles of books that are related to this theme, and, if I come across them I will have a good look through them. Could be an interesting article of some kind.

"Priests participated in most wars AND many wars was fought because OF priests and religion. The Spanish Civil War is no exception."

This comment by Travellera struck me; it reminds me of a view that is now almost an unchallengeable orthodoxy among many people I know, that religion is a significant cause of war.

From reading about military history, I have never seen what real basis this has. Even contemporary wars, like in Iraq and Afghanistan, that have a religious dimension, to really get going they seem to need some relevant political or social content as well.

And, in the past, you might have got a war going about religion, but it is as if people do not recognise that a war then was not the same as a war now; if you only fight one or two pitched battles about every ten years (as in the French wars of religion), the battle lasts about a day or so, and everyone goes home after a few months of campaign, people might be tempted to fight purely over religion. But all the massively more devastating 19th/20th C. wars have been about secular things like Nationalism, Communism etc. with relgious stuff not getting much of a look in.

Nationalism is 98% the cause for all wars.

The cry of the Nationalist is " we are better than them, different, but better".

I on them all…

Just a note about uniforms.

I have read accounts of priests blessing and fighting, although it was uncommon enough to be given attention by the writer. In one memoir I read from a soldier in the 4th Navarrese Division, he told about the priest of the battalion, but only in spiritual role, i.e conforting wounded soldiers, ecc. Apparently he was dressed like any other soldier in the unit to avoid being single out by snipers. This soldier was from Barcelona. He was 17 y.o and recruited in early 1938 by the Republican Army (they called them the Quinta del Biberón, some like the "Toddler's Draft" because every one was very young). During the Ebro offensive he was left isolated and deserted to the Nationalist side (he was a worker but came from a Carlist background). After one month in a concentration camp he was drafted in the 4th Navarre, where one of his uncles was serving as Colonel. He fought all the Ebro counteroffensive and the Catalonia Campaign.

He has several nice stories. Like the time they were counterattacked by Republican armor and one T26 broke through the lines -they hadn't antitank weapons, but only their rifles-. Then they begun to shot with the rifles against the tank and to the utmost surprise of every one, the tank stopped and the crew tried to run away on foot!

The problem, however, with most SCW sources used so far is the enormous amount of propaganda that clouded them. I am longing for microhistory studies to see what real people, without an overt political stand, really thought and felt, what they expectations were, ecc.

Its interesting that this is the one conflict where most of the first hand accounts have been written by the losing side.

The first conflict to use propaganda on a large scale too, and this has come out in a lot of the written accounts. I don't think you will ever get an even handed account of what really went on, as the depth of feeling runs so deep, even to this day.

I've read accounts from both sides to try and gain as much knowledge as I can. I felt it neccessary to do so before producing the Anglian range.

A good discussion so far, without the usual left and right lunatics posting their bile, makes a refreshing change ;-]

Nigel H
Anglian Minis

Nigel,

How your Spanish goes? There have been in the last year two books of letters written by common people. The writers hadn't an axe to grind against anybody as what the wanted was to communicate with their families. Just to explain what they were experiencing from a day-to-day point of view.

The other book very interesting is an analysis about desertion. I have not read it yet, but the conclusions of the author are striking: about 2 million of Spanish soldiers in both sides deserted or tried to desert in some moment during the war. Apparently most of the soldiers fought just because they were ordered to fight.

The last book interesting I saw lately is a sad story about the 82nd Mixed Brigade. This unit fought heroically in Teruel, leading the Republican attack on the city. When the battle ended they were relocated to other hot spot. However, the soldiers thought they have had enough fight and mutinied. They wanted to be be sent to a quiet front. The Republican authorities couldn't allow that and broke the mutiny ruthlessly, with about 40 of the mutinieers being shot and other hundred being punished in other ways. The 82nd was sent to the planned position, suffering dearly in the Nationalist counterattacks.

Antonio

I would also recommend as background Esdaile's "Spain in the Liberal Age." It starts in 1808 and is a general history of Spain through 1940. One of the threads it highlights is the role that the military took in Spain, specifically the officer corps. These officers were a key mover in the period. Frustrated with low pay, poor social standing and lack of advancement, they were a sizable and influential group with a lot of grievances.

Remember too that we call the 1936-39 war The Spanish Civil War, but they had fought three others between 1830 and 1900 not to mention suffering numerous periods of near anarchy. In essence the Nationalist victory is simply the end of thge struggle begun in 1808.

Extra,

Be careful with Esdaile's interpretations, he uses too much insight to make his points. For example, it is a big error to identify generals as Espartero, Narvaez or Prim as representatives of a Military as class or mentalities. They were politicians that happen to be military, not the other way around. Perhaps it is a little bit difficult to understand the difference, but still, it existed, it is important and Esdaile didn't understand it too well.

More convincing is Balfour's book Deadly Embrace. His thesis is that the military attitude towards the Republic was due to the African experience of the Spanish military. His analysis is very interesting, although I believe he doesn't gives attention enough to the moral and political break out that the loss of Cuba and Philippines provoked in the Spanish system of the Restoration (1874-1921) and how it shaped the action of the Army.

The SCW has its roots in the particular problems of Spain from 1927 onwards, with its long duree traits in the Cuban War (1895-1898) and in the Rif War (1909, and 1921-1927), and the social unrest of 1917-1922. Trying to link 1808 with 1936 is as absurd as to link the Peterloo Massacre with the First Bishop's War.

Basileus66,

Do you have the titles of any of the memoirs you are talking about? They sound interesting, especially the one about the soldier in the Navarese division.

I have also been reading a book that sounds like the one you are talking about. Is it called something like 'Si Quieres mi escribir, Gloria y Castigo de la 82 Brigada Mixta..'

Do you have the title of the book about desertion? It sounds really interesting too.

Balfour`s book is very good.

Very few people have liked "El Desatre" (the loss of Cuba and the Philipines) to the breakdown in relations between the military and the Government (I did in my Rif War articles).

Theres a very good book "From Agadir to Armageddon" by Geoffrey Barraclough which goes into great depth about the labour and social problems throughout Europe which led to the Agadir Crisis in 1911. This crisis led to the treaty of Fez 1912 and divided Morocco between the French and Spanish zones.

To be fair Beever also goes to great lengths to descibe to social termoil which eventually led to the revolt. He also points to the other juntas and Primo de Rivieras Coup as proof that the rebellion was nothing new in Spanish history.

Coconuts,

The book is:
Ignacio Yarza Hinojosa Diario de Campaña de un soldado catalán Madrid, Actas, 2005

Other memoirs are in the Biblioteca Nacional and private archives. As far as I know they are not published, though a friend of mine who is working in a project to retrieve first-hand narratives from the war told me that perhaps they will publish it if they find an editorial. I have put them in contact with La Esfera de los Libros, but, so far, I have no news.

The books I was talking about were: Si me quieres escribir and Gloria y Castigo de la 82 Brigada Mixta. I have no the title of the book on the desertion with me now. As soon as I got it from my parents home I will quote it here.

Regards
Antonio

So much good info being put out here in a civil tongue. Thanks, guys. Antonio, I'll add those books to my next order from Spain.

Cheers,
Doc

I´ll second that. I did not expect the poor(?) priest to bring up so much interesting info and discussion. Thanks all!

The book on the desertion is Desertores from Pedro Corral -the same guy who wrote Si me quieres escribir- and published in La Esfera de los Libros.

I must correct a mistake I made. He didn`t claim there were 2 million of deserters, but that 2 million men avoid military service by different means, direct desertion being one of them. His principal thesis is that in the whole the Spanish people were far less ideologized than previous studies supposed -probably in the line of Seidman's analysis in his book Republic of Egos. A social history of the Spanish Civil War published by Wisconsin U.P-. Apart, then, from a relatively small part of the population the political activism was uncommon in the whole.

That idea fits, apparently, with popular reactions and ideological motivation that are found in other periods, like Napoleonic wars.

However I am not absolutely convinced. We are coping with letters to families, loved ones, ecc… there you don't discuss political problems. Moreover, the trends of behaviour that were constructed by a society in any given moment, are so deeply subsumed in the colective unconscious that needn't a overt statement in the part of the writer to be understood by the reader. Perhaps common people were not literate enough to articulate a complex political explanation for their behaviour or decissions. Though they could know where their perceived interests -life perspectives- layed.

Even if I accept that ideology and religion are not the primary motivation for a soldier to fight -or to avoid doing it-, we can't through out the baby with the water and left aside the role of propaganda, culture, perception of the past and history.

I would read both books trying to be critical and only then accept or not their conclusions.

I hope you understand I am not bashing the author's thesis, but only thinking about the potential weak links in his reasoning process. It is difficult for me to explain complex ideas in English, so forgive me if you think all I said is gibberish!

Regards
Antonio

Sounds good to me Antonio, you English is fine.

Doc

Antonio,

Thank you for the titles of those books; Pedro Corrales writes in an interesting way, so I will be sure to look out for his book on the deserters and 'emboscados' in the SCW.

I would not think it surprising if political activism and commitment declined as the war went on, because it could happen that people began to consider that the destruction and disruption of life outweighed the benefits of the political reforms proposed by either side.

Also, while a lot of people may have been politically motivated to a certain extent, perhaps many were not commited enough to be enthusiastic about fighting a full scale modern war over these things.

I get the impression that the reality will probably be very complex, and there are many possibilities for studies in greater depth around these subjects.

Certainly, however, many things you read about the SCW can be excessively ideological, especially when written by foreigners, because, they seem to have tended, whatever their own ideology, to use the Spanish Civil War as, if not a prextext, (too strong), at least a way of discussing their own particular political viewpoints, as much as what was happening amongst the Spanish themelves.

The book of memoirs by the Italian volunteer Lodoli is interesting, because, while a Fascist, he has quite a lot of positive things to say about the Republicans, and the Spanish generally, and, in parts of the book, you would never guess his politics, even though it was written in 1939.

For a conflict that has been over so long, I am always surprised at the attention it generates. It always seemed to me that the war consisted of multiple groups forming alliances while trying to kill each other. Has anyone seen the series on TSCW which Grenada TV put out on the war's 50th anniversary?