"Farewell to Dave Hollins" Topic

Thanks Dave for trying to make a difference.

Thank you for caring enough to take the time to generously share what you found in your research with others.

I look forward to reading any new book that you may have the opportunity to publish.

If I can provide you with any material assistance in the future, you know how to contact me.

I am sorry that you chose to leave the TMP Forums.

Your friend,

Steve

Dave who?

It's me DAVE!

Dave's not here man.

"Is it me, or does the Nappies board generate more than its fair share of acrimony and resignations from this harmless web board?"

Only from a few ne'er-do-wells. Other than that it seems much like any of the other areas here.

Some times its too easy…

I'd leave in a Huff, but the last one went by a half hour ago.

buh dum tish…

Serious post.
Dave Hollins has the hallmarks of being a highly competent historian. Who knows, perhaps a great one?
He is passionate about his subject. He has a lawyer's tenacity(not meant as an insult. He is actually a lawyer).
He is intelligent.
His published works (only Ospreys so far) have met good reviews.
I believe his Forever War, waged against historians he doesn't agree with, has sapped out his potential.
He needs to let go of the negative & research, write & find a publisher.
I'm glad he's left TMP; not out of spite ( & to be honest, he's bugged the hell out of me lately) but because hopefully he will now concentrate on the creation of good history & not, as he obviously does, tie himself in knots over issues of a pettifogging nature.
If he's not here nit-picking, perhaps he's out somewhere writing history.
I won't say Vale, dave hollins (not least because on the old Nap Series he'd resign 3 times a year "never to return") because I hope to see, finally, a book with his name on the cover.
donald

Donald,
I feel sure he will return to TMP as you know he does this on a regular basis. He used to have his own site a number of years ago unfortunately I don't think he got many visitors I can't think why. I fear you may have to wait a long time before you see a book with his name on the cover, his work on Marengo has been going to be published for a number of years.
I met him and a number of his friends a number of years ago at a Napoleonic Fair and his first words were what do you think of ******* Kiley. This was before we were introduced.

Wagram

"In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends."
Kevin is a scholar *and* a gentleman.
donald

Oh well, there's allways Flintloque I suppose. Thank gawd I'm not a nappy gamer, there has always been something about the people attracted to that era which puts me off.

I'm off to paint some zombies.

I shall miss you, Dave. While often lacking tact (perhaps due to frustration), which alienated some who might have agreed with you, your knowledge and willingness to share it contributed more to this board than many of those who abused you without ever being able or willing to refute your claims.
At least you had the courage to discourse on an open forum where anyone who wished to do so could provide a counter-argument, rather than posting reviews which cannot be countermanded by the author.

Based on Justin's comments, I decided if I needed to retract my opinion in regards to Mr Hollin's attitude toward the USA. I thought that I may have been too harsh.

However after checking his posts on the CA board, I never found a positive comment about the USA. Several inferences toward the general intelligence of Americans. Paraphased Examples, feel free to review his posts as I did.

"Does your MG fire more than 1 round" = You have to be smarter than your weapon, that explains why the US has so many friendly fire incidents'.

"9% of Americans expect Victory in Iraq" = The other 91% say Where's Iraq?

"Ministry of the Terminally Stupid"

Accusses the CIA of actions without support is 'Raid on the Iranian Consulate' and 'Chavez Wins'.

Other threads that I noted such commants included but were not limited to : Assasination in Lebanon, Could Be tricky George, Who is more Stupid?, US and World Abusive Relationship, and many others.

Many such posts he started on the CA board. While he may have said something nice about Americans on other Boards, I did not check them. I never found a positive comment about the USA, so I will not modify my opinion that Justin referred to.

As I also pointed out in the original post, those were his opinions and I viewed them as such. When it came to data about Napoleonics, when he was not commanting on other authors methodology, I enjoyed them.

Here is another Shakespeare quote, too, that may be appropriate for one such as this leaving TMP…

"Go thou, and fill another room in hell."

Richard II.

GarnhamGhast:
Oh well, there's allways Flintloque I suppose.

Hey! Don't drag me into this!

It takes two to tango – Mr Kiley isn't innocent in all of this. Hopefully, Mr Kiley will do a "Hollins" and go as well.

No more so than Moby Dick was responsible for the "tango" with Capt Ahab.

The relationship, pursuer and pursued was always the same.

If DH posted something, I never saw KK posting challenging some arcane factoid of some publication of DH. But thats what happened whenever KK may have posted something.

It amounted to literary/internet stalking, IMO.

And was downright unhealthy. Wagram's post confirms it:

I met him and a number of his friends a number of years ago at a Napoleonic Fair and his first words were what do you think of ******* Kiley. This was before we were introduced.

That seems like he was somewhat obssessed.

We got it the first time [several years ago]..and the second, third…hundreth time…the fact that he couldn't move on tells me he has a problem.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya….too bad I'm sure you'll be back.

Kiley and Hollins are both at fault, and both need to go. They are the "oil and water" of the Napoleonics boards – they just don't mix.

I recall the same/similar comments in this thread as were posted in a thread a few months ago concerning the both of them. And here we are doing the same thing as then. The two of them just don't learn – and neither do we.

They can't stop themselves from drawing lines in the sand over Napoleonic issues, and it's the TMPers who end up taking sides when none should be taken by us. Therefore, both should leave – problem solved.

By letting one of them stay, TMP is giving the impression of being bias towards the one who hasn't left. TMP is not the problem here – the two of them are. Kiley should leave too.

They might not mix well, but I don't know how I'd live without both oil and water.

Ain't nobody hijacked this thread yet??

Astro-- But Dave Hollins wasn't ASKED to leave, he chose to. So why should Kiley be forced out? I don't disagree at all that they were both at fault and if this were an Editor backed banning (ooo, alliteration!) then perhaps it would be better if it was all fair and equitable-like, but this just isn't the case.

Baaah on "fair and equitable". One guy throws a hissy fit and leaves because he can't have things his way.
To be fair and equitable, the other guy must do the same?

Bill has thrown people out before. He did NOT do it here. So, let the WWII crybaby and the Napoleonic crybaby both take their ball and leave. Why on earth anyone should expect Bill to throw out their antagonists is beyond me.
This is not kindergarten. (HAH!) This is the "real world", and one should not expect equitable outcomes for every conflict. To not get one would not be unfair. to impose one where it is definitely not needed, would be.

Thunder Dome

I thought we were beyond that?

"Kiley and Hollins are both at fault, and both need to go. They are the "oil and water" of the Napoleonics boards – they just don't mix."

Horse hockey.

You just have to remove one of the two. Without Capt Ahab, there is no hunt for Moby.

Thats been done, BY HIS OWN INITIATIVE.

Ladies and Gentlemen….Capt Ahab has left the building.

The only bias is in the eyes of people who want to be biased.

My only fear is that ole Ahab will be back, complete with the same old complaints. Until then, I'll enjoy the peace and quiet. Too bad, as Ahab has much to offer if he could just check his ego at the door.

A person who is an insufferable imp doesn't know how to check ego.

That come out of a fortune cookie?

And I was just going to release a new set of super accurate Nappies rules, I was hoping for some stimulating feedback:

After the armies are deployed on the table roll a d6 to see who goes first.

Each turn pick one unit and roll a d6.
1-3 -move the unit anywhere on the table without regard for terrain or other units
4-6 -next players turn

Since supplies are important +1 to the d6 roll for whoever brought the most beer.

If you decide to make contact with another unit play 3 rounds of Paper/Scissors/Rock, the losing unit is removed from play and the winner gets to roll the d6.

In the event of a tie both units are eliminated and the d6 is handed to the next player.

The winner is the first player drunk!

Any National Characteristics?

Any National Characteristics?

I'm being persecuted here!

Any National Characteristics?

Prussians are first to the poolside chairs +1

French smell of Garlic -2

Polish are miserable, and only drink wodka +/-2, depending on how they feel that day

Brits are ed as ferrets under the table -6

Austrians invade neighbouring countries on slightest pretext +4

Italians and Spanish run away a lot -8

Italians and Spanish run away a lot -8

If you had read Ricardo Montabalm's excellent treatise "Fine Corinthian Weather" you would know that should only be a -7 for the Spanish.

Damn those details :0(

"Ain't nobody hijacked this thread yet??"

I tried, Lord knows, but it went nowhere. Guess I'm losing my touch.

I sense a Mel Brooks musical comedy possibilities with this one….
maybe with overtones from the Sound Of Music….

guys in leiderhosen..singing,

"So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night"

"I hate to go and leave this pretty sight"

"adieu, adieu to you and you and you….."

"So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye"
gooooooooooooooooooodbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyye"

I smell bigger than "Springtime for Hitler" in the broadway musical/movie "The Producers".

Ah, rmcaras,

your generosity knows no bounds.

I should think you and the others have bravely kicked the dead body enough. Such true heros amongst us. Such vigor you all have shown.

But Brutus is an honorable man ….

Sincerely,

Steve

Steve,
Don't worry he will be back again in a couple of months with all the old arguments where else has he got to go.

Wagram

rmcara wrote:

"I sense a Mel Brooks musical comedy possibilities with this one….
maybe with overtones from the Sound Of Music….

guys in leiderhosen..singing,…"

1) Do you mean guys leider in Hosen, i.e. you prefer naked men ?

2) or do they wear Liederhosen, i.e. a new secret Weopon for the next Song Contest

3) Or do you mean Lederhosen?

A little bit confused Ulenspiegel :-))

'A Whaaaaaaaaaaaale….. a Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaale……… oh, my mistake, just an ordinary-colour whaaaaaaaaaaaaale'

Pat

rmcaras,
Don't mention the war!!!!!
(at least the 1809 campaign against the Austrians). You don't know who might come back.
cheers, donald

Ulenspiegel, do German workers at nuclear plants wear lead en hosen?
Just asking….
donald

@ochoin

nee, heiße Bleihöschen :-))))

Ulenspiegel

Whew! For a while thgere I thought this was going to get all serious and discussion like. It's really about time it devolved into thread anarchy! 8)=

Thanks for the kind words but don't worry Steven, that body ain't dead, its a ghoulish zombie that re-constitutes itself and returns as ghastly as ever.

Just wait for the next comet to swish by.

If you can't wait perhaps you can administer CPR to hasten its return…just remember to blow into the right orifice.

Ulenspiegel, I think the producers would prefer #1….

after all they got Harry Potter to appear nude in "Equus", so I think that is the what is expected these days….

Ulenspiegel,

Are you the famous 'Ulenspiegel' of the German Wikipedia? If so, I enjoy your work.

Steve

rmcaras,

Always good to cross swords with you. But, perhaps you are not taking it as literally as I?

You do not mince your words! Perhaps, your steps?

In the words of Hamlet, "Good night, sweet prince."

Sincerely,

Steve

rmcaras,
I always think of Achilles, sulking in his tent.
donald

Dave Hollins even with his despicable attitude have a quality that we wargamers should try to mimic once in a while: "l'esprit critique". When a lot of concepts are commonly accepted as true, we need people like Dave to say "hey, that idea was never really demonstrated and should be reexamined". A better understanding of the past is at this cost, guys.
If military historians all say the same things, our comprehension will perhaps be more coherent, but we might at the same time miss whole parts of some past realities… things that may be basic but have been eluded by most of the witnesses that bothered to write their memoirs or that weren't accounted for in the military archives.
This isn't in any case an excuse for the behaviour of mr. Hollins & Cie on this forum. I wish the very "religious" need to claim we have The Truth can be overcome… and let us all have some fun out of the debating.

While I enjoy the long drawn out posting on the Nappies page the rants against everything American got old quick. You do not like the U.S. go to the Anti U.S. page.

What we do not have one yet? Bill are you hearing me…

D.H. was a race (ok ethnic) baiter who on the CA boards will not be missed. His anti-American rants were more envy of parts of the male anatomy then much else.

VR
James Mattes

I am not a Yank.
I state this so you understand where I come from when I say the blind anti-American attitudes of some offend me.
It's a hard stance to explain. Is it considered 'cool'? A hang-over from Uni days when you're anti pretty well everything? Did these guys have a bad Big Mac & want revenge?
This is not to say America or Americans are perfect but at least look at them according to their merits.
BTW davo hated the Italians too. Never heard him say anything but disparaging things about them. This was because, I think, they didn't want to belong to the Hapsburg empire: an attitude that damned them to perpetuity in his eyes.
donald

I will say that in the famous 3rd Bricole War of 2006, he certainly lost the propoganda campaign. But I have to agree with others who have raised the point that Dave asked questions which, once you got over the vitriol were often valid- and which not always given a categorical answer.

This is where the nastiness would irk me- it detracted from the essence of what he was saying and I got the feeling that the venom masked his point, and allowed others to skirt the issues he raised. Effectively he was undermining his own case. Yet I am still not convinced one way or the other about who has or has not checked various sources.

Having said that, when you stand back it is amazing just how small fry some of these arguments are, Never has so much been said about things that so few give a rodent's posterior about. I enjoyed Napoleonic gaming just as much thirty years ago as I do now, whether under outdated "dangerous(!)" assumptions or not. And I never saw a 28mm gun crew dragging guns with bricoles anyway.