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"Koenig Krieg vs. Volley & Bayonet" Topic

Volley & Bayonet

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20 Feb 2017 8:01 p.m. PST
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Comments or corrections?

crogge175725 Jun 2009 2:35 a.m. PST

As I am a long time V&B gamer of 7YW as well as Napoleonics, I wonder if someone could enlighten me on some of the basic KK mechanics and differences to V&B. I haven't a glimse as to how KK works. Please do not compare to other rules as I hardly ever played anithing else then WRG and V&B, asside from a single ACW Fire&Fury more then 10 years ago. I completely forgott about F&F mechanics, so relating to those rules wouln't help either. KK homepage doesn't say much. What's the time and ground scale? I believe I would have to re-base in order to play KK? A horrifying nightmare causing idea, really.
Could one employ the KK pre-battle sequence whatever phase with V&B?


nsolomon9925 Jun 2009 2:48 a.m. PST

Koenig Kreig is a battalion level game – that would be the big diffrence over V&B I should think.

Yes, you could easily lift out the pre-battle manouver phase and use it with V&B I should think. It uses blinds for each brigade, plus some dummy blinds of course, so should be easily fitted to other systems.

OldGrenadier at work25 Jun 2009 4:17 a.m. PST

It would be easier to have an army based for K&K and use sabot-style bases for V&B, than to rebase for the other way around. I only ever played the first editions of the two, but they're on different scales and different base sizes. K&K's firing mechanics are based on rolling a number of dice depending on how many figures are firing. IIRC, V&B's fire mechanics are somewhat different.

vtsaogames25 Jun 2009 4:32 a.m. PST

KK battalions have 4 stands. If you don't rebase that will require 4 of your V&B regiments to mke one battalion and your whole army will be a brigade or two. KK is fairly simple – which means it's more complex than V&B.

crogge175725 Jun 2009 4:54 a.m. PST

>>KK is fairly simple which means it's more complex than V&B<<

LOL. Sounds I better stay with V&B. I have once played dice rolling per figures firing system. Worked fine then (at 2008 HistoriCon) with only 2 beers. But over here we are much more hard core. The time game comes to fist exchanges of fire each player has had about 2 bottles of wine by then (moderately calculated). None will be prepared for calculating anything more then possibly about the time to open the next bottle. The early pre battle manuvers, though could work despite being "somewhat more complex".


Personal logo timurilank Supporting Member of TMP25 Jun 2009 2:11 p.m. PST

But over here we are much more hard core. The time game comes to fist exchanges of fire each player has had about 2 bottles of wine by then (moderately calculated).


Either we are very aggressive here or because we are using the same rules for nearly 30 years, but we seldom reach a bottle per player before the battle has already been decided. However, the after game bluster and such, brings us pretty much in line.


bavoisSYW25 Jun 2009 10:27 p.m. PST

I have not played V&B Napoleonics only ACW. It seems that you could use Koenig Krieg maneuvre with V&B a division in V&B equals a brigade in Koenig Krieg.

In V&B a stand is the Brigade, whereas in KK 3-4 stands equals the battalion. A battalion has 4 figures on each stand.

Both have a fairly similar shooting mechanism, 5's and 6's to hit, with multiple dice per stand depending on the stands ability to shoot….

There are no saving throws with Koenig Krieg and movement is less in Koenig Krieg than in V&B..

If you want the Sam Mustapha approach of refighting large battles like Leuthen then V&B is for you. But if you enjoy the 18th century feel of linear warfare, something you just plain miss out on when scaling up, then Koenig Krieg is for you…

Mollinary25 Jun 2009 10:44 p.m. PST

Isn't it interesting how different people can view the same material in an exactly opposite light? My first foray into the SYW was with Koenig Krieg. However it never really felt like SYW to me, but seemed more like Napoleonics in different uniforms. So I then changed to a set of rules which gave me a real linear feel and look to the battles. You've guessed it, V&B!



bavoisSYW26 Jun 2009 8:17 p.m. PST

Its strange I agree! I have a theory its about what sets of rules you began wargaming with. That is what moulds your ideas on feel and which wargames have what feel to them. I was brought up with Empire for Napoleonics so to me Koenig Krieg is about as far away from Napoleonics as you can get. While I despise most Games Workshop rules sets (not their specialist games or LOTR) but all the rest, I really feel that Warhammer ECW is by far and away the best set of rules for English Civil War. But then I read the white horse as a boy and the Warhammer ECW battles feel like that book describes…
Anyway just as a side point how can a set of rules that emphasises linear warfare and at least in the new version of Koenig Krieg penalises columns on the battlefield be remotely Napoleonic in feel. Long lines, no grand batteries, cavalry being driven off easily by infantry in lines….. I am a bit confused…

On a different note I am still looking for that quintessential Napoleonics game!!!!! I have tried most, Empire, Grand Armee, Napoleons Battles, Valmy to Waterloo, Elan, General de Brigade, Age of Eagles etc, although I have not tried V&B napoleonics, I do feel Napoleonics is at its best when multiple corps are involved….. But I dio not want to go back to the days of Empire. A great simulation but the only game I klnow that has consistently broken up friendships from every wargames group I know time and time again. I will never go back to it!!!! Games are meant to be fun!

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