"Shattered Lances Rule Questions?" Topic

I've posted this on the Yahoo Group, but thought I'd try here as well.

I remember reading a lot about how the combat system is "not linear" in that you don't accumulate Disorder, ie a D1 unit that gets another D1 result stays D1.

I thought I also read that the Combat result is the New unit state even if it improves the unit's disorder state. i.e. if you are D2 and someone shoots at you and gets a D1 result, you are now D1, not D2. In other words the target disorder state can IMPROVE in combat. I thought I read this discussion a long time ago and the Designer had a good rationale for it. But now, looking at the rules and the Beginner's Guide, it looks like I mistook this.

Hopefully someone can clarify quick as I am running a SL game at MillCon this weekend.

Looking at the Beginner's Guide PDF

2nd Harassment Phase
al-Nashiba fires at the Pedites (who are D2)
The combat result is No Effect
Don't the Petites lose the D2?

I remember reading before about combat is "not linear" in SL. Thus if you shoot at a D1 target and get a No Effect, the unit loses its D1 and goes back to Steady. Basically the Combat result is the new Unit state, not cumulative.

Or is it that you can ONLY lose Disorder via a Savings Throw or Rally?

You will need to read Rallies 10.3, the info is in the second column, page 48. Basically, you rally from disorder, IF successful, the change in disorder state does not happen until the END OF THE NEXT TURNS RALLY PHASE.
So, if during the next turn something happens to alter disorder levels, then the successful rally is aborted. See 10.3.3(a), on page 49.

So, rallying can take a long time. The beauty of the saving throw option is the disorder recovery is instant, but may involve other unplanned outcomes in the form of forced moves

Oh, and from on-line discussion dated 4/5/06,:

" Q. Is disorder cumulative- if I inflict another D1 outcome on an opponent who is already D1, do they become D2?

A. No
An opponent is penalized for being disordered in combat and their saving throw is hindered. This makes it more likely their disorder will increase but it is not automatic. In other words, on average your opponent's disorder will increase, but get used to some disappointment along the way."

But you can't go backwards from Combat?

If you are D2 and get a D1 result, you are still D2?

Somehow I'd gotten it in my head that the Combat result was your NEW status? But I'm thinking that's wrong.

Also, if you are D1, get another D1, you stay D1 – BUT can make a Savings Throw. If you pass the Savings Throw you REMAIN D1?

There's a comment on Yahoo to that effect, but just making sure.

No, I don't see anything saying combat can improve your status. Unless, you are using your chance, after combat, to roll a save and change your status with a successful roll.(see below)
Can you quote the comment you found on Yahoo?

So, pages 41-43 list outcomes from saving throws. A successful save reduces a combat outcome by one level. So, D1 becomes steady and a D2 becomes D1. A broken unit becomes D2.
The Forced Move only happens if you fail your save, see 9.6.1(c) on pg.41, and see 9.7 on pg.43-44.

To you final question, the above discussion of saving throw success would give the answer as no. If you are D1 and make a successful save, then you are now steady.

jim_dunnam wrote:

Here is where I got the response that if you are D1 and get another D1, you can make a Savings Throw, but if you Pass you still remain D1. At least that's how I understand his response. If true, why would you want to opt for a Savings Throw? Post 4434 I believe

Hi

it's a reasonable question. Nonetheless, it still counts as an adverse
result so a saving throw is permitted even though the unit stays at D1.
The unit has received enough pressure to get an adverse combat result
(D1 or greater) even though this result doesn't change the status of the
unit.

Note however, that at a probabilistic level, once a unit is D1 it is
more likely to jump to D2 than a unit that is steady.
This jump in odds is not linear- but increasing with respect to the
combat factors.

Chthonic regards

B

> Since combat results are not cumulative (per the FAQ), if a unit which
> is D1 receives another D1, I assume that is not an "adverse" result
> (i.e. it does not get a Savings Throw since it did not worsen its
> condition to D2)???
>
> Sorry for being dense. I am trying to outline the rules so I can get
> them down.