"Starter list Carthaginian Tactics against Romans " Topic

Hi,

We've been playing FOG V1 with starter lists (Rome v Carthage). I've been using the Carthiginian list out of Rise of Rome.

Now I've won most of the games I've played but they've been down to dumb luck, Hannibal's inpsired presence and nothing else (e.g. African spearmen defeating Roman legionaries).

Some observations

- The Carthiginian army consists of average quality troops with a superior general.

- The Roman army consists of excellent quality troops with an average general.

- Roman infantry are far superior to Carthiginian ones (Superior Armoured v Average Protected).

- Carthiginian cavalry are slightly better than Roman ones (superior protected v average protected).

- Roman triarri are super maneouvrable and great for flanking moves. As Elite they generally thrash anything they fight (re-rolls 1s and 2s).

- Carthiginan elephants are of marginal effectiveness, especially when combined with inferior Carthiginian infantry.

- Roman light foot are generally superior to Carthiginian light foot (protected v unprotected).

- Numidian javelin light troops are generally useless for anything other than camp looting (javelins only have 2 MU range which means they're liable to get charged and caught especially by Roman skirmishers or cavalry).

- Numidian light cavalry are super maneouvrable but lack punch.

Failed tactics
Skirmishers forward to harras Romans whilst infantry waits

- In this case the skirmishers were sent forward to harrass Roman formations whilst the infantry waited back.

- Harrasment was negligible in effect. There were a couple of disorders early on, but they were removed by the time combat was joined.

- Roman cavalry/superior skirmishers eventually catch Carthiginians skirmishers and wipe them out (as happened to my Baleric slingers who were sent packing off the board by some Roman skirmishers).

Numidian Light cavalry into flanks

- This has not worked well either. Light cavalry loose dice when fighting anything other than other skirmishers.

- They're also liable to flank charged by far superior triari.

Spanish/Gaulish cavalry into flanks

- Not worked due to flank charging by Superior Triarii.

Purpose of Carthaginian infantry?
- In the list the Carthaginians get following infantry:
- 2 X Africa Spearmen (average protected spear heavy foot)
- 1 x Scutari (average protected spear medium foot)
- 1 x Gauls (average impact foot)

None of these units can really stand up to a Roman legionaire unit.

It seems the best purpose for them is to stand around guarding the camp and hope for skirmishers to lay some disorder markers that stick.

Purpose of Carthaginian cavalry?
- The existence of triari makes it very difficult to get a flank charge with these guys.

- They are inferior to Roman legionaries (Superior Protected Swordsmen v Superior Armoured Skilled Swordsmen).

Purpose of elephants?

- We've found elephants to be underwhelming against cavalry (only disorder them).

- When combined in the line with average quality infantry, the elephants don't contribute much to the fight (4 dice needing 4's provided they're not disordered). The elephants POA doesn't stop the Romans belting the infantry where they have 2 X POA (Skilled Swordsmen).

Tactical advice

- Formations?

- Preferred match ups?

- Timing?

- Use of individual troop types?

Isn't there a specific FOG forum at Slitherine's site? You might have better luck getting advice on this particular issue there.

please do tell here, good questions

Are you playing FOG v1 or v2? Sounds like v1.
v2 will help you:
1. Romans will only get a single +POA in melee as the superior armour POA can't give them ++ any more unless they are two levels better.
2. Elephants get 3 dice per base at impact (and losing impact is worse for morale).

I suppose you could try neutralising the enemy cavalry with your Numidians and sending your heavy cavalry on an outflanking run.

The starter list for Carthage probably isn't that great. I use the Superior Armoured spear option (veteran spearmen). They will be better than Roman foot. The Spanish and Gauls will be useless vs Romans.
As stated above, things will improve for Carthage if you use FOG2.
Even in FOG1, your elephants should beat Roman cavalry quite easily – more dice and a POA up should win virtually every time.

African infantry (8pts) are down at impact and evens in melee against Superior Armoured legions (14pts) if they can keep formed. Units of 8 in three ranks to minimise the impact dice and expand out in melee. A general with them would offset the re-rolls and still be cheaper than the Romans based on a 8 element unit.
Spears have to stay formed to stand a chance. Go disrupted and you're dead.
Same with the Elepants. Go in 1 element wide and then decide if you want to expand in melee. Legions be evens at impact and down in melee I think. Armour and SW dosen't count against Elephants.

Your spears and Elephants take on the Legions the rest of your troops go after the non legions.

Set the Roman side up as something other than Armoured Superiors. The Mid republic army is supposed to be a bit different than the late one. Take the Romans are Superior protected or Average armoured or any other of the combinations to make it an interesting fight. A straight Super Armoured legionary unit with equal numbers kills pretty much everything – and so is expensive.

Thanks for the advice guys.

We are using FOG1 for those who asked.