"Commands and Colors Ancients " Topic

Just played a thrown together game using 28mm Macedonians vs. Indians on a Hotz felt map with hexes. Lots of figures, 14 units per side with 3 leaders, and a victory level of 6 (eliminated units and/or generals). It was really, really good. I'll write up a more detailed report after suffering through the late showing of Nacho Libre.

Steve

Did ya take any pics? Tell me more of these Hotz felt maps.

Mike

Are these mats available in the UK?

I'm liking C+C. Liking it a lot.
The more games I play the more impressive seem the subtleties of the rules (I like the way simple elegant way in which warbands and elephants are handled especially).
The game strikes me as being similar to DBA but without the annoying fiddly bits (and a really clear rulebook as well).

Andy.

Wow, Steve, that was fast. You got the rules, what, 4 hours before the game?!

Look forward to the report.

Ed

Works great for fantasy battles too. Here are some pictures (too many) from a LOTR version. The Battle of Azanulbizar.

link

The leadership rules are particularly effective and make C&C:Ancients different from Battle Cry and M44.

Bill Hupp
Baruk Khazad!

Hi Steve;

Good to hear! I am in the process of doing the same thing with C&C. Did you balance out the opponents using some value scale? If one could develop a points system for the various units, then you could port the system to cover other combatants as well. Looking forward to your AAR.

Dave
miniwars.com

Did ya take any pics? Tell me more of these Hotz felt maps.

***Not yet, but I will. The Hotz felt mats are 5" hexes, which holds plenty of troop stands. They are sold by Hotz Artworks, who advertise here on TMP, I believe. The mats are treated; so far, no loose fibers balling up, and they seem pretty tough.

Steve

Are these mats available in the UK?

***They may still only be available direct from Eric, but they are worth looking into if the shipping charges are manageable. I agree with you and Bill about the strengths, and I really like the difficult decision of when or not to evade. The desire to battle back is hard to overcome, and evading can make for very fluid cavalry actions on the left and right.

Steve

Dave, no balancing yet. Each side had 3 leaders, a command value of 5, and the needed victory level was 6.

The Macedonians had:
3 heavy foot (phalanxes)
1 medium foot (mercenary hoplites)
2 auxilia (Thracians and hypaspists)
2 heavy cavalry (companions and Thessalians)
2 medium cavalry (Thracians and Persians)
2 light cavalry (Scythians)
2 light foot (1 archers, 1 slingers)

The Indians had:
2 auxilia (formed javelinmen with 2-handed swords)
2 light archers (Indian bowmen)
2 light foot (loose skirmishing javelinmen)
2 elephants
2 heavy chariots
2 medium cavalry
2 light cavalry

The first game saw the Indians with many "Center" cards that were used to ease the many missile foot forward to use a "Darken the Sky" card. But the rolling was atrocious, and the Macedonian phalangites pressed forward to mop the floor with the Indian center. Unlike the Indians, the Macedonian light units hurt the elephants on the Indian right with effective shooting, and both they and the chariots were eliminated. The center Indian general also was lost, and although the Macedonian left had a rough time with their cavalry counterparts, the Macedonians cruised to a 6-2 victory.

The second game was much different. The Indians got good cards that allowed them to press with their mounted troops, and even though the Macedonians used evading to avoid early losses, their flank units were finally pushed deep into their own side. All 3 of the Macedonian left's cavalry were lost, along with their general on that side, and the final blow came when elephants, heavy chariots, and a leader-enhanced medium cav unit attacked the exposed phalanxes. Advances and bonus attacks wrecked 2 pike units, and the Indians managed a 6-4 victory.

Like DBA's pip management, you can't do great things everywhere, so you have to coordinate your command card play for the best chance to win. I still have a lot to learn.

Steve

Man, I am LOVING that game. I'm thinking seriously about miniaturizing it, and making it my first choice for all ancients gaming.

What a blast.

We've been using 15mm minis to play Zama, and I absolotely love the game.

I'm planning to give it an outing with my 28mm fantasy troops, soon.

Simon

I noticed a new expansion announced today; this is great for me as I'm currently painting 28mm Romans…. I've snipped this from their website.

Simon

"Commands & Colors: Ancients Expansion Packs #2 Rome & The Barbarians on
P500 list now!

Imperial Rome and The Barbarians is the second expansion to Commands & Colors: Ancients. In this second expansion you will find historical battles that focus on Rome and the early Gallic invasion, invasion of the Northmen, the Servile War (Spartacus), Caesar's conquest of Gaul,
the Roman Civil Wars and much more.

Showcased in the second expansion, are over 20 scenarios that range from
390 BC (Allia River) to 9 AD (Teutoburger Wald), and all the blocks and
labels you need to field the Roman and Barbarian forces to fight out
these battles.

Imperial Rome and The Barbarians will feature at least one new unit type
as well as several "specialty" units and leaders (Briton Chariots,
Legionaries using the pilum, and Caesar, for example). Each of these
operates within the confines of the original system rules, with only
slight modifications to reflect their historical abilities and
importance. So, rules-wise, if you've played Commands & Colors:
Ancients, you'll have no trouble at all learning the few special rules
for these new types of units."

Awesome. I'm doing a 28mm Roman army too, albeit a Mid-Imperial one from A&A.

Dave

Dave,

I saw the post. Have you made the Sarmatians look OK? ;-)

I'm doing my own take on your EIRs; mostly Saleh, much stubble.

Simon

Simon;

Didn't get any Sarmatians. But, I will post pics of a unit of Dalmatian LC soon. I'll post here.

Dave

Dave,

I'll look forward to it!

I saw a list of the battles covered in the first expansion pack, today; it looks like it covers most of the major classical ones, from Marathon to Pynda.

Simon

Lordy…

Thank you Simon for the good news.

Dave, I've played over a dozen games of Macedonians vs. Indians (I enjoy getting out armies and setting up games, but they tend to sit out a while as clearing the table is a dreaded task). Same set up over and over (I'm boring), but always different results and different heroes and goats. Sweeping cavalry charges, infantry grinds, shooting success or failure, all have occurred. This system is really working out well for me.

Steve

I also love the way that the card play makes every game different from the last.

it plays faster than conversational wargames, and the hexes mean that there's no need to measure, or fiddle with the facing of units; I find that this makes it less physically tiring to play.

Simon

Steve/Simon;

As soon as I get my Hotz mat (thanks Steve), we'll test drive the system with miniatures. I may put up a page on mu website dedicated to C&C. I would like some industrial fan to develop a point system for each unit, however. It would make it a bit easier to do some ahistorical matchups, or 'what-if's'. Also, dare I say, you could have a tourney and not be restricted to the set piece battles (although that would be fine too, if everyone had the lead).

Dave

Steve;

Are you playing solo? Also, I was a little unsure the equivalency of a skirmisher unit and heavy cavalry unit (for instance). Not sure the same value is there, which means you must protect your skirmishers like you would your 'household' troops.

Dave

Dave,

Sorry I missed your post, just came across it.

I've recently received my Hotz mats, and have played several fantasy games in 28mm. In 15 mm we've played quite a few historical games.

For 28mm ancients, I've been struggling to assemble enough appropriate miniatures to form armies. It needs a lot more minis than DBA… the closest I have is my EIR army, which is a Foundry one similar to your EIR army. Has about a dozen units so far.

Re points costs, I've seen several discussions but not seen a list I agree with. My own views on the relative values of units are still changing. My current favourites are Heavy Cavalry and Warriors.

Do let me know if you set up something on your site…

Simon

Hi all,recently bought "Memoir '44" because of all the great things said about them on these pages(and also because i'm very interested in finding a copy of "C & C..ancients),but seem to be very thin on the ground over here in the U.K.
Now these hex mats look great,so the question is….are there enough hexes on a mat to play the game or are there too many and you could cut it down to the correct size???

Cheers Andy

Also,anybody in the U.K. know where i can purchase C&C (u.k stores preferably)??????

Is the first expansion Macedonian/Greek/Persians????

Andy

Andy,

Try Leisure Games in Finchley, they stock it. But keep selling out.

I don't believe the expansion is out yet.

The Hotz mat is slightly larger than required- this is a Good Thing (especially for light cavalry!). It could easily be cut. Hexes fit 2 DBA elements side by side.

Simon

Thanks for the info…

Cheers Andy