"Commands and colors Ancients 6mm or 2mm?" Topic

Hi all,

Just bought Command and Colors ancients. I like the game a lot but am not digging the blocks. I am torn between going with 6mm or 2mm for a miniature replacement of the blocks. I can't decide. I am certain that you can use the game board as is for both options.

2mm:
You have to change very little. The terrain tiles can be used as is it will probably look ok.

Mount one or 2 strips per stand/block.

Very cheap.

6mm:
Much better looking. I'd go with Baccus.

2 strips per stand for infantry and 1 strip for cavalry.

Expensive when you consider how many stands you have to produce.

You will probably want to model some hills and trees to make everything look /right/.

---

So which would you go with? I am specifically interested in one of these two options.

John

I would go with 6mm. But I had considered the O.G. 10mm stuff in the past for the very same thing. With the army card, packs of 100 cost $9.60 USD and paint up quickly.

I'd go 6mm, easier to paint (and see!) and you can't go wrong with Baccus, lovely figures.

If cost is a concern, I'd rather go with 1/72 plastics over 2mm.

You may have seen these already but…

Command and Colors in 6mm: link

In defence of the blocks …

1) It takes me about five seconds for my imagination to change those wood blocks and cardboard terrain into a Ridley Scott movie scene. Beautiful minis cut that down to two seconds, which is nice. But the blocks are easy to set up, move, clean up, and store. The game itself plays fast -- we often play, swap sides and play again within an hour and a half. Minis just make all that fiddly, and a simple game with elegant and delicate components might become glaringly … simple.

2) The blocks and stickers are pre-painted.

I've been pondering going the minis route myself, but am torn between 1/72 and 28mm.

I've seen Dan Becker's wonderful miniatures. Really nice stuff. I think the larger hexes make me want that! But it is a lot of time and money for making something so nice and I have little of both to spend right now.

I have some Baccus WSS figures and they are really nice so I can only imagine the Ancients are even better!

1/72 stuff would be another cost effective choice but I think they would look great on larger stands which translates into a larger board as well.

I'll take thosmoss' advice and stick with the blocks for now. I'll probably do a single strip of baccus on a 1cmX2cm stand. That will keep the flexibility of the stand wide open for other games if I choose.

John

Like you, I wanted to "miniaturize" my C&C:A game. I decided to do it in 15mm, because I can't stand 6mm – and 2mm might as well be a counter, in my mind. Pointless.

So, I'm still in the process of doing that – specifically, for Alexander/Persian games – but am now falling more and more in love with the blocks. They look great, are easily transportable, etc. Honestly, at this point, I'm not sure why I started "miniaturizing" my game at all.

Good luck to you, though. There's a yahoogroup for those who are miniaturizing the game, and they have some nice comparison photos.

2mm is far from pointless and i sincerely doubt that most of those who oppose it have actually seen 2mm minis.
2mm would be great for your project, as it is much more generic than 6mm, which also means a lower total expanse.

on the other hand i would second that doubt about the need to make minis for boardgames. the nice thing about boardgames is that they are quick to set up. minis and terrain kill that.
better play a "real" mini game, i guess.

but then – people are different i gues ^^

2mm?! Never seen 'em!

8-)

Well painted 2mm are far distant from counters.

I have reasilly identifiable Romans, Carthagenians, Hittites, Egyptians, Celts, etc. Nationalities are very distinct. I even have late and early Romans.

2mm also looks great for Horse&Musket and Pike&Shot gaming. The table actually looks like period woodcut illustrations diagramming a battle.

Do not mock 2mm unless you have actually played a game with well painted and based 2mm figures.

For a miniature-ized version of C&C:A I would definitely go with 2mm blocks by preference. Otherwise the game becomes less portable instead of more. Pointless.

For a miniature-ized version of C&C:A I would definitely go with 2mm blocks by preference. Otherwise the game becomes less portable instead of more. Pointless.

I don't understand. It seems the most portable version of the game is with the blocks. And if base size is same between the two scales, 2mm is only marginally more portable then 6mm.

Here is C&C Epic in 15mm:

link

But IMHO real men play C&C in 28mm:

link

Having said that, I do also enjoy playing with the blocks, as well (and would play with 2mm or 6mm if I had them!).

Cheers, Simon

I don't understand. It seems the most portable version of the game is with the blocks. And if base size is same between the two scales, 2mm is only marginally more portable then 6mm.

I think that 6mm is a bit less portable because they are considerably less durable. Standards and spears can be broken easily on 6mm figures. Pretty hard to do on 2mm.

Here is C&C Epic in 15mm:

But IMHO real men play C&C in 28mm:

Very nice Simon! Wish I had the time and money to do something like that.

John

Hi John,

Sometimes I'm not sure if I have the time or the money, either! ;-)

10mm might be another fun scale to look into; you could whack eight or so infantry on a base and four elements would really look like a decent unit.

Cheers, Simon

Hiya Simon,

10mm would be another choice and a reasonably afordable one as the first response here suggests.

I had one other idea as well. I have only played on the computer using vassalengine to learn the rules. I havn't even assembled my game yet! Anyway, the computer uses a single counter/block to represent a unit and has a number to represent strength. You could use say 3" squares and have that represent the appropriate amount of blocks. Then for casualties, simply use casualty markers. I'd leave enough rooom in the rear to place markers easily so they can "travel" with the unit when you pick it up. The markers could even be actual figures. I know Baccus makes casualty markers for their 6mm range.

John

Hi John, a friend suggested a system where the front rank of the unit would be one long block, and the second rank 3 small ones. This way most of the figures would remain on the table until the last block was destroyed.

Casualty minis would be a nice approach too. If they were left behind when a unit was destroyed, the battlefield would look a lot more realistic by the end of the game!

Cheers, Simon

The pics of the Dan Becker's 6 mm Battle of Zama are nice but 6mm figs in small formations (6-8 figs/stand) dont look right to me. With 2mm blocks you can get more of a mass effect for a lot less money and you dont need to expand the board size. I would go with 2mm. If you dont know it there are some nice 2mm trees and scenic items available from both Irregular and Odzial Osmy.

On reflection, I do own a pair of 2mm Irregular Miniatures armies for DBA, and I think they would work well for Command and Colors (if I was to paint 3 times as many, again). The 2mm villages and scenery are great.

I did CC:A in 6mm. IMHO it is not nearly Baccus' best range. Okay, but not great, and word through the grapevine is that it will probably be resculpted within the next year or so. Rapier does a range similar in size and heft; other options would be Irregular or H&R.

Anyway, what you can learn from my experience is that you don't actually need to buy a unit of minis to replace each one of blocks. If you actually count the maximum number of each unit type fielded in each scenario, you'll see that there are a huge number of extras who never get used. Furthermore, a lot of the troops are redundant between the two armies-- nearly all of the Roman light cavalry, for instance, are actually Numidians who switched sides-- i.e. the exact same units you would use for the Carthaginian light cavalry. Likewise, Spanish or Italian infantry would serve equally for auxilia on either side, depending on the battle.

The ultimate cost-cutter would be to make sabot bases for the units, and colour code those. All of a sudden your minis become *very* versatile: for example, you could use the same bunch of Roman minis for auxilia, medium or heavy infantry.

Having lots of both 6mm and 2mm figures, I can pack a couple of armies worth of 2mm into an Altoids tin with no danger of damage. My 6mm are much more fragile and delicate.

So 2mm are much more portable.

I am doing this in 6mm, and am currently on about 2,000 figures, Rapier and Baccus, in the Greek, Macedonian, and Republican Roman armies. Also have some Persian, Carthaginian and Indian Rapier to paint. I do not colour code the armies like the blocks, so units such as light infantry and Numidian Light cavalry can serve in many armies, as can Greek Hoplites. I differentiate between types by both number of figures on a base, and a coloured strip on the rear end of the base:
Heavy Infantry 8 per base (unit of 32) Red
Medium Infantry 6 per base (unit 24) Blue
Warrior Infantry 5 per base (unit 20) Blue/white
Auxilia Infantry 4 per base (unit 16) Green/white
Light Infantry 3 per base (unit 12) Green

Same principle for cavalry, heavies 5 per base, mediums 4, lights 3. I have made one exception, with my Baccus Marian Romans for the civil war scenarios. In these scenarios it seems to me that the Heavy, Medium and Auxiliary Units essentially represent different quality troops of the same type, ie legionaries. For these armies I have put 8 figures on every base, and differentiated the quality by the rear strip and the shield colours. The great thing is you can choose any system that suits you. It is a great game, still looks good on the original board ( a lot of scenarios do not involve terrain anyway) and with 6mm figures, you can store and transport them easily. My figures fit into a three drawer plastic filing box!

Mollinary