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"Using Tin Soldiers in Action for American Revolutionary War" Topic


Tin Soldiers in Action

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©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Dale Hurtt12 Dec 2016 7:54 p.m. PST

I posted an article about how I am using the rules Tin Soldiers in Action to game the American Revolutionary War. I am curious about what others' perceptions are about what the proper "feel" of AmRev battles should be.

A fair amount is specific to the Tin Soldiers in Action rules, but I think there is enough general information there to given the gist.

Blog Post

picture

For a review of the Tin Soldiers in Action rules, see:

Part One and Start of Battle: link

Part Two, Conclusion of Battle and Review: link

Part Three Postscript: link

Regards,

Dale

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP13 Dec 2016 2:25 a.m. PST

A few instant thoughts
1. Militia should not be able to stand up(close quarters) to line infantry.Even with fence.
2. There should always be some flanking or on table lap around
3. Few or no mounted troops.
4. Low figure ratio compared to ACW/naps to reflect smaller armies.
5. Guns not shooting overhead on the same level/
6.Mecahnism for running low on ammunition.

Brechtel19813 Dec 2016 3:39 a.m. PST

The Virginia militia made an excellent stand in the second line at Guilford Courthouse. They were stationed in the woods which forced the British to deploy in order to fight them on their own terms.

Some of the militia also conducted volley fire in the confused fighting at the second line. They, quite literally, went at it toe to toe with the British regulars.

General Stevens, commander of one of the two Virginia militia brigades even stationed 25 picked men behind his line to shoot anyone who ran.

At Eutaw Springs the militia present not only fought the British regulars in the open but conducted a well-disciplined attack to open the action.

At Camden, one of the militia regiments didn't run and stood with the Maryland and Delaware Continentals in their epic outnumbered fight against the British regulars.

There are exceptions to the usual rule.

Durban Gamer13 Dec 2016 4:52 a.m. PST

Thanks for the rules thoughts. I'm looking forward to the game!

B6GOBOS13 Dec 2016 4:53 a.m. PST

But, as you say these are the exception.

Dale Hurtt13 Dec 2016 7:00 a.m. PST

Also, there was more cavalry in the battle in the South than in the North. But you are right in that it was small.

This is how we arrive with so many ARW rule sets that treat all British as supermen, though, by ignoring the exceptions. Like the 7th and the 71st at Cowpens, like the Guards versus the Delaware at Guilford Courthouse, etc. That was why I preferred to research out a scenario and play specific units rather than play pickup. Unfortunately my random purchases of painted troops has resulted in a lot of Northern units and early war uniforms. So I am stuck with changing my ideas from representing specific units to generally changing the quality from the norms in most rules. If anything, I think my representation is more "Late War".

Dale Hurtt13 Dec 2016 8:58 a.m. PST

Jonathon Freitag (Palouse Wargaming Journal blog) made an interesting point that my No Bayonets rule was producing the double jeopardy that I was trying to avoid.

TSIA does not follow the typical sequence of many rules of: 1) attacker tests whether they can charge or they falter; 2) defender tests whether they stand and fight or retreat; and then 3) close combat is resolved if both passed their checks. In TSIA there is no question about if the close combat will occur; it will. Instead, it determines how bad you will be in the resulting close combat. You may be disordered, lose figures from desertion, and may not hit as hard in close combat. Retreat comes from losing a close combat, not from a morale failure for being charged.

Perhaps my No Bayonets rule should simply have the unit without bayonets automatically retreat as if they lost the combat if they fail their Close Combat Test (i.e. morale check).

Thoughts?

vtsaogames13 Dec 2016 9:17 a.m. PST

Not sure about the double jeopardy thing, but not having bayonets would weigh on my mind if a line of regulars armed with them were moving towards me at a trot and hollering.

I tend to think there are two grades of militia: those who have seen little or no action, and those who have seen rather more. I should think Marion or Pickens would have sterner troops than the ordinary militia.

Samurai Elb13 Dec 2016 10:27 a.m. PST

I am just painting figures for Cowpens which IŽll play with "Tin Soldiers in Action" and therefore I have thought of those problems too. Even if I came too some other conclusions here are some proposals for you:

IŽll will give miltia mormally the attributes Amateurs and inferior but I thought you have similiar ideas. I propose to give the British and perhaps the Hessians normally "superior" (normally not the Loyalist Units). Then you have automatically a great difference between regular Britisch and American militia.

Your idea with the normal infantry in open order is something to think over. At this case you should give militia without bayonet and rifles the ability "oben formation only" too. Militia can then use only 6 tin soldiers for close combat and therefore those units without bayonets are even weaker too. You can even think about giving militia before the battle of Cowpens the ability rabble too. They cannot rallying from being disordered. At the battle of Cowpens rallying militia was an important circumstance therefore only militia until Cowpens.

Please execuse errors english is not my native language.

Dale Hurtt13 Dec 2016 12:21 p.m. PST

@Samurai Elb:

I think that you are penalizing Patriot militia way too much by making them inferior and rabble. There are really two basic types of militia: those that form up (as best as they can) and those that skirmish. At Guilford Courthouse, for example, there were the main militia brigades (roughly 500+ men per brigade) and the rifle units on the flanks. In my post I make the former inferior amateur infantry or average amateur infantry. I don't give them the ability to adopt open formation. That is something only better trained troops, or true skirmishers, should get. So the exact opposite of what you are proposing.

Think about it this way: open formation allows you to maneuver as a unit with much greater ease (rarely disordered by movement) and can rally from disorder with ease. That does not describe "line" militia. However, if they got off a volley it could have great effect, but they were easily disordered and prone to desertion. That does not describe open formation troops. Instead it is better reflected by a unit that cannot adopt open formation. Once they become disordered they will start quickly deserting, but until then, their volleys will (and should) hurt.

The militia did pretty well at Cowpens and Guilford Courthouse. They would never have been able to inflict the casualties on the British that they did if they are rated as always in open formation.

Just some thoughts.

Dale

Brechtel19817 Dec 2016 9:51 a.m. PST

The two rifle units at Guilford Courthouse, Lynch's and Campbell's small battalions were brigaded with Continental units-Lynch with Washington and Kirwood and Campbell with Lee.

They were veterans of King's Mountain and were not the usual type of militia. They would stay and fight, not run.

The North Carolina militia in the first line did not comply with Greene's instructions for three volleys and then withdraw. Most fired two, some none, and many one and then took off. Some didn't stop until they got home, which accounts for the 1,000 or so missing in the American returns after the battle.

The Virginia militia did much better, and gave the British and Germans a hard fight at the wooded second line. They completely disordered the British advance so that their battalions left the woods one or two at a time to face the Continentals at the third line.

See Long, Obstinate, and Bloody by Babits and Howard which is the best book on Guilford Courthouse to date. Another excellent volume on the battle is the one published by the National Park Service in the 1970s.

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