Editor in Chief Bill | 09 Nov 2015 8:42 p.m. PST |
On a scale of 10 (awesome) to zero (awful), how would you rate the Impetus ruleset? |
Who asked this joker | 09 Nov 2015 9:30 p.m. PST |
7. Generally a good, simple design marred by the author wanting to give too many chances. |
Phillius | 09 Nov 2015 9:48 p.m. PST |
6. At a simplistic level it produces a good game. As variety gets added, the logic appears to slip. And there is something wrong with the use of dice, can't put my finger on it, but something doesn't work. |
agrippavips | 09 Nov 2015 10:33 p.m. PST |
I own both of these. Basic Impetus 9 Impetus 7 Basic Impetus is a fun set, just add the evade rules from the main rules and it is complete. Impetus adds command control and reaction moves. I do not need them in most games. |
Bashytubits | 09 Nov 2015 11:20 p.m. PST |
Its a good game but I give it a 7. I like Sword and Spear better. |
wrgmr1 | 09 Nov 2015 11:35 p.m. PST |
Never played it, so I cannot rate it. |
Wombling Free | 10 Nov 2015 2:53 a.m. PST |
I give it a solid 8. It's a game I will happily play any time, and it is better than all the other ancients games that I have tried (WRG, DBx, FoG, Warmaster Ancients, etc). It also scores points for using larger bases that you can make into small dioramas if you wish. |
Dexter Ward | 10 Nov 2015 3:02 a.m. PST |
6 – It's OK, but a number of things are wonky. Way too many shooting weapon categories and the ranges are far too long for the scale of the game. |
Jcfrog | 10 Nov 2015 3:23 a.m. PST |
9 Well done Well supported Nearly drawned rules lawyers Alows nice looking games ( bases= units) Foreigners do not need a degree in phylosophy and laguage to understand. Can be bough in ebook More to come.. Hopefully Prego |
parrskool | 10 Nov 2015 5:18 a.m. PST |
8 -:andles my Wars of the Roses troops well enough for me….. and I've tried a few rule sets, believe me. |
Zippee | 10 Nov 2015 6:00 a.m. PST |
9 for Impetus 4 for Basic Impetus Quick slick and good representation. BG far our preferred ancients game |
Decebalus | 10 Nov 2015 6:09 a.m. PST |
6 nice game, but combat is to random. |
mad monkey 1 | 10 Nov 2015 9:07 a.m. PST |
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Veteran Cosmic Rocker | 10 Nov 2015 10:42 a.m. PST |
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Nick B | 10 Nov 2015 10:45 a.m. PST |
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Who asked this joker | 10 Nov 2015 10:51 a.m. PST |
Way too many shooting weapon categories Very much so. The melee combats are delightfully simple with about 3-4 "weapon" types while shooting inexplicably not only has many missile weapon types but also sub-types. Longbow A and Longbow B for example. |
Yesthatphil | 10 Nov 2015 11:17 a.m. PST |
I like it … 8 … Re Basic Impetus, a good alternative to Armati … slightly more detail than DBA but a much quicker game than FoG … Phil Ancients on the Move |
TKindred | 10 Nov 2015 12:04 p.m. PST |
I like it a lot. 8 for Impetus, and 9 for Basic Impetus. If you like the systems, the engine, then you can also pick up "Dux Bellorum" as it's very similar. But I ditched all my other ancients rules except for Warhammer Ancients & Dux Bellorum for the Impetus system. |
Mirosav | 10 Nov 2015 12:39 p.m. PST |
I've played Impetus a few times and it was okay: 6 I tried a renaissance version (Impetus Baroque? and it was much better: 8 |
Fat Wally | 10 Nov 2015 12:50 p.m. PST |
Like it a lot Impetus 8 Basic Impetus 7 |
Stosstruppen | 10 Nov 2015 1:24 p.m. PST |
There are a couple things that seem odd but I really like the rules, always produces a fun game. 8 or 9 really. Love the basing. I always thought ancient rules gave too much flexibility to unit formations anyway. |
Marcus Brutus | 10 Nov 2015 1:43 p.m. PST |
Way too many shooting weapon categories Very much so. The melee combats are delightfully simple with about 3-4 "weapon" types while shooting inexplicably not only has many missile weapon types but also sub-types. Longbow A and Longbow B for example. First, Impetus is an amazing game so I give it a 10. I say this because having played 200+ games it is still fresh and offers players many interesting command decisions. Second, your comments Dexter and Joker tells me that you haven't played Impetus sufficiently to understand how the missile system works. The variety of missile weapons is essential to the game. The difference between the weapons types produces different tactics. Case in point: Longbow A and Longbow B. Longbow A is effective at Long Range whereas Longbow B is more a nuisance weapon at that distance. Units approaching units armed with Longbow A have to endure effective missile fire for a considerably longer period of movement than when facing Longbow B units. Slings work very differently in Impetus than Javelin and there are certain advantages and disadvantages with each weapons system. Composite Bow A is used by infantry, Composite Bow B is used by cavalry who use missile fire as their primary weapon and Composite Bow C represents shock cavalry who use bow as a support weapon. Each rating effects and supports the historical practices of their respective type. |
evilgong | 10 Nov 2015 2:49 p.m. PST |
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Gunfreak | 10 Nov 2015 3:08 p.m. PST |
Can't say anything about rules as I've never read them, but i don't like the look of the games, way too few figures. Ect. |
Marcus Brutus | 10 Nov 2015 3:46 p.m. PST |
Can't say anything about rules as I've never read them, but i don't like the look of the games, way too few figures. Ect. This is a picture from an Impetus game I put on at Cold Wars back in 2012. Lots of figures.
34 by Eusebeia2002, on Flickr The picture below is from member painterman's blog of a Burgundian/Swiss battle using Impetus. Lots of figures.
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Diocletian284 | 10 Nov 2015 4:13 p.m. PST |
9. I am new to Impetus and have only played solitaire games so far. Looking forward to facing human opponents that may be held up in Ontario in near future. I like the 120mm base width for 28mm figures. A good amount of room to place figures and have a great looking formation. The army lists are well structured and give reasonable options. I do like the differentiation of the shooting troop ratings. Marcus Brutus makes good points as to why they are set up that way. I also agree with Marcus that a standard battle has plenty of figures on the table. |
Yellow Admiral | 10 Nov 2015 10:12 p.m. PST |
I only give it a 6. I have no scathing criticisms. I really wanted to like it, I appreciate the way Impetus games play quickly but still feel like "big" battles, and I'm going forward with rebasing all my miniatures to Impetus standard even though I probably won't play Impetus with them. However, in play I found it to feel oddly incoherent, like the various mechanisms don't really mesh quite right. I can't really say more than that, it just left me feeling a bit "meh" after a game. I wanted to give it more tries, but there isn't a lot support around here for it, and I don't know how to fix the biggest flaw: one command active at a time. In general I prefer multi-player games, and I find that one-command-at-a-time rules are actually "one guy plays, everyone else watches" games. - Ix |
BigRedBat | 11 Nov 2015 4:50 a.m. PST |
I've not played it enough to rate it but the basing concept is excellent; when properly executed, each base can become a stunning vignette. |
Tarty2Ts | 11 Nov 2015 4:47 p.m. PST |
I give them a 10. Easily my favourite ancients rules by far. Very clever set of rules… and like all good rules 'open up' the more you play them. I've been playing them for quiet a few years now and every game never fails to disappoint…what more could you ask for ? If only every set of rules I've invested time with were as good as these I'd be a very happy chap. Looking forward to Impetus Baroque coming out soon I hold great hope for these also….that should be another period well catered for. |
Marcus Brutus | 11 Nov 2015 6:52 p.m. PST |
Impetus was designed for head to head play so I agree Yellow Admiral that multi-player games requires a different initiative system. I have come up with a multiplayer activation system so if you are interested in it you can contact me at mark.w.rutledgeatgmail.com. |
PilGrim | 12 Nov 2015 4:05 a.m. PST |
I'd say an 8, with the addition they're the best ancients rules I have played so far. Direly in need of a revision to v2 just to clean up the rules. I'd echo the comments made about folk complaining about the missile types – it simply shows they don't understand the game. |
HarryHotspurEsq | 13 Nov 2015 12:47 a.m. PST |
Didn't gel with our group I'm afraid. 6 at best. |
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | 13 Nov 2015 4:31 a.m. PST |
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Gunfreak | 13 Nov 2015 6:45 a.m. PST |
Marcus, thats unlike any imputus game ive seen, most imputus armies I've seen are less the 70 figures…. |
Marcus Brutus | 13 Nov 2015 7:27 a.m. PST |
Perhaps Gunfreak you were observing a Basic Impetus game which is really a DBA equivalent? A dozen or so large stands. Also, some Impetus players are a bit light on the figures on their bases since the game doesn't require specific numbers. We played a standard 400 point competition game last night and my Middle Assyrian army had 250+ figures in it. |
Gunfreak | 13 Nov 2015 9:18 a.m. PST |
Thanks, Marcus, I did not know this! It made the rules much more intresting! |
Marcus Brutus | 13 Nov 2015 11:13 a.m. PST |
Hi Gunfreak. Pleasure to help!! Impetus as a game isn't for everyone. It has a wild side to it and luck does play an significant element in winning. But, strangely that seems realistic to me (didn't Caesar and Napoleon says it was better to be lucky than good?) Below is a 350 point game between Gauls and Scots. We've since moved to the slightly larger 400 point games but it does give one the impression of the size of battles. We play fast so a typical game takes about 90 minutes from set up to finish.
IMG_20150419_211459 by Eusebeia2002, on Flickr |
bobm1959 | 13 Nov 2015 12:02 p.m. PST |
I'd rate it an 8….but I've never played anything better. It'd be higher if Lorenzo would stop tweaking it to suit tournament players. I've played it an awful lot for classical and early medieval period battles and have used its basic mechanisms for a small battle set of rules for raids etc set around the first millennium. Multi-player games work best by pairing up opponents and letting them get on with it. Not that different from real life accounts. It's their ability to reflect the full range of possibilities thrown up by historical accounts that I find most convincing….but the range of possibles is often what those who dislike it quote as their reason. The variety of missile weapons does seem off-putting at first but it's the only way of having good melee troops without them also being "super" missile troops (and vice versa) as the combat value of a unit (VBU) is common to both ranged and melee combat. Think of them as tactical factors. |
kevanG | 14 Nov 2015 5:47 a.m. PST |
I rate it highly….About 8. and its the only reason I have ancient figures at all basic impetus is a 7 fog is 5, sometimes 5.5 DBA is 5, sometimes 6 sword and spear is 4. hail caesar is 4.5 warhammer ancients is about 4. thats what I have tried. |
French Wargame Holidays | 14 Nov 2015 7:14 a.m. PST |
9.5 love them, bought me back to ancients after a number of years, but they do need a rewrite to clear up some details, some army lists do need rethinking also. Cheers Matt
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yorkie o1 | 14 Nov 2015 11:56 a.m. PST |
A solid 10 from me, its my go to set for ancient gaming. |
GamesPoet | 15 Nov 2015 7:31 p.m. PST |
Not sure I've played it enough to rank it fairly. However, I have enjoyed it muchly! It is well worth folks givng it a try if you haven't yet, and seems to be well worth to keep playing for awhile before measuring it fully. I have liked it for gaming ancients, and look forward to trying it for latter eras as well. |
Tankred | 20 Nov 2015 3:34 a.m. PST |
10 I really love Impetus. The great thing is, that army composition has many options with building one to three commands with generals on one side. If you vary the composition, a game can be very different and interesting. Since two of the commands of the players compete for initiative no round is the same. We used commands a lot for mulitplayer games and this was really fun. Personally I cannot understand when somebody says this works not good. The historical details are depicted very gut, but the interesting thing is, that you can have games with armies of different historical settings. It works surprinsingly. The look of an Impetusgame is better that in all other games I know. Since losses are marked and there is no aligning, the table looks dynamic and interesting with lots of minatures. I play both 28mm and 15mm and both is a really nice look. For 28mm you need army storage space and a big table. The game is maintained, the rules are discussed and are developed further. The mechanics differ a little bit too much for my taste, so sometimes it is hard to remember the right distances and who may charge whom under which circumstances. Moreover the difference between potential charge, real charge and opportunity charge for example are essential but hard to remember. Nevertheless I experienced great games, where you could not be sure that you will win or loose after the first half. The battle luck can turn with one unsucessful charge. The game is deadly from the beginning and has the right mixture between maneuvering and melee action. @Decebalus you should play with 3 Rolls of fate. Makes a less random game possible. |
Dexter Ward | 20 Nov 2015 4:38 a.m. PST |
bobm wrote: The variety of missile weapons does seem off-putting at first but it's the only way of having good melee troops without them also being "super" missile troops (and vice versa) as the combat value of a unit (VBU) is common to both ranged and melee combat. Think of them as tactical factors. ---------------- It would surely have been much simpler to have separate factors for ranged and close combat? |
bobm1959 | 20 Nov 2015 5:57 a.m. PST |
Dexter Ward…..it's also your morale rating and decreases with casualties. Keeping it simple in all these areas adds a little complication when shooting. You get used to it quickly and there aren't usually that many different missile weapons on the table together to worry about. |
00 JET 00 | 20 Nov 2015 9:52 a.m. PST |
9 for me. I've been playing Impetus since the rulebook was first published. I've played 6mm Imperial Romans, 15mm Free Company (now Argmanac) and 15mm Avar. I agree with other seasoned players that the shooting table is required but, since it is included on all QR sheets, I don't see the issue. I can generally tally how many shooting dice my unit has in about 2 or 3 seconds. Impetus "feels" right to me in that there is a significant element of chance which I feel would be realistic in ancient and medieval warfare. When I think of battles like Cannae and Crecy, luck and circumstance seemed to play a major role in determining outcomes. Our games have seen rare but crazy situations like slingers routing cataphracts and peasants driving off mounted knights. If you think such cases are unrealistic, you obviously need to read a little more historical accounts of actual battles. Now, in saying that, as a game system and nothing more (forget how or if it "captures" what actually happened or didn't happen), it simply comes down to taste. I find Impetus complex, but not crunchy, which is what I like in a game. Some games are perhaps tighter systems (in terms of the rules), but often lack the drama and sense of wild possibility (i.e. multiple moves, grand charges that no one expected). Why not a 10? The core rules are in serious (and I would argue imminent) need of a 2nd edition. We aren't playing as much as we used to because some or our player who want to play every few weeks find it frustrating having to consult back and forth between different documents. When 2nd edition comes out (and I am patiently waiting), Impetus will experience a massive resurgence, and probably new players as well, in my group. |
Marcus Brutus | 20 Nov 2015 5:01 p.m. PST |
The thing with Missile Fire Table is that any one army usually has only a handful of weapons systems. So it doesn't require memorizing every weapons system. There are some common elements between certain weapons systems that makes remembering easier too. I do agree with JET that a 2nd Edition is needed. The 2nd edition needs to be more than including all the changes to Impetus over the past few years. It needs to more clearly written rules and more diagrams to explain how the system works. Much like what happened to Armati when it came out with a 2nd Edition. But I see this as a good problem to have (most rules never make it to a second edition!!) |
Gwydion | 21 Nov 2015 4:19 p.m. PST |
8 I really like it but I would echo bobm1959 and would love it a little more if Lorenzo stopped paying too much attention to those shouting loudest for amendments so they can win. A 2nd ed may be needed to clear up all the amendments – but the best version of 2nd ed would leave out 90% of the changes and stick with the simplicity (agree though it could do with a slightly clearer organisation). |
roundie | 21 Nov 2015 7:04 p.m. PST |
8.5 For me the best set of ancient rules I've played thus far. Dux Bellorum with impetus basing would come a close second. I have also tried WAB,DBM,DBMM,DBA and FoG. |
Marcus Brutus | 21 Nov 2015 9:05 p.m. PST |
I really like it but I would echo bobm1959 and would love it a little more if Lorenzo stopped paying too much attention to those shouting loudest for amendments so they can win. A 2nd ed may be needed to clear up all the amendments – but the best version of 2nd ed would leave out 90% of the changes and stick with the simplicity What changes Gwydion do you have the most problems with? |